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  • [–] 64 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    Do you think this is about people disagreeing with their contents? That seems like a strawman. People disagree with one specific religion's doctrine being forced onto students.

    But, since you asked, I could definitely do without these:

    • I am the Lord thy God. Thou shall not have strange gods before Me.
    • Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
    • Remember to keep holy the Lord's day.
    • Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife. (seems a bit male-focused)
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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Not only male focused, but also considers the wife a property of the husband.

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  • [–] 39 points 9 months ago (44 children)

    Okay real talk, you can't just "besides" the parts which make all nonAbrahamic religions, nature worship and atheism anathema, especially when you're forcing it upon children in school. And especially when those doing so have proven those are the only bits they follow and intend to enforce.

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (42 children)

    Are they The Ten Commandments or not?

    All the others boil down to The Golden Rule. You don't need ten, or seven. Jesus explained that, but it existed before religion and doesn't require belief in a deity.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    believing in God and the Day of Judgement, having it in your mind 24/7, will help you choose virtue when it doesn't feel convenient and your whims and greed scream against being righteous.

    I don't need to be threatened with eternal suffering in order to choose to be a good person. I'm simply not a piece of shit by default.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    If you need the notion of an invisible sky judge/peeping Tom, you're not a virtuous person, you're a trembling child afraid of the strap.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Nobody cares what your opinion is about if it's good or bad. It is the law in this country, as well as objectively the correct position, to let individuals believe whatever the fuck they want. You do not have the right to force anybody else to believe your fairy tales except for, debatably, your children.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

    Because public schools are funded through tax dollars, that means that funding cannot be used to teach one specific religion over any other.

    I am not pulling this out of my ass, there's like 200 years of precedence.

    You can put the ten commandments up all over the place at your private school. But as soon as my tax dollars start paying for it, you take that shit down.

    You can teach kids about the ten commandments in public schools, as long as it's taught in a historical context along with various other religions and Christianity is not given preference.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    believing in God and the Day of Judgement, having it in your mind 24/7, will help you choose virtue when it doesn’t feel convenient and your whims and greed scream against being righteous

    Then why do so few Christians act virtuously? Why is it Christians are the ones most in favor of Trump and everything he's doing? Why are people being shot in the streets, families torn apart, immigrants dying in cells?

    If Christians are, on average, more virtuous, why are they disproportionately supporting unethical, amoral leadership?

    Why is it when Tim Walz implemented free school lunches for children, it was the Christian right that opposed it? Why were childless atheists like me stronger supporters of it than Christians?

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Remember how much more fun Christmas was when you believed in Santa? You should just start believing in Santa again and enhance your Christmas experience!

    It's easier said than done. Once you realize that Santa was just a manipulative lie to make children behave, you can't force yourself to forget all that and just go back to the sense of wonder you had as a kid.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    You never believed in Santa Claus?

    What's stopping you from believing in him now?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    You can feel however you want but you're comparing apples and oranges. God is not a man, God is not here, God does not deliver gifts to every kid on the planet in a matter of hours, God is the programmer and we're the Sims but with free will. And whilst some might consider my POV valid, I don't think I've made any requests. It's better for you, sure, but I'm not pushy nor do I care that much (my peace of mind comes first, I'm not that selfless). It's sad that the closest thing to God in atheist America is Santa, lol, but it's still apples and oranges.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    There's too many people who believe in God and the Day of Judgement, who not only proclaim their belief but call for everyone else to believe the same, and yet their lives are built on greed and ambition for me to believe that has anything but a deleterious effect on true morality.

    Better to focus on doing right in the here and now, because this is the only life we have, the only opportunity we have, to give a positive definition to our humanity.

    Religion provides cover and loopholes for evil to flourish. And if God does exist, They clearly enjoy cruelty towards the innocent.

    But if you wish to continue being religious, go ahead (not at me but for yourself) as long as you don't start treating people as things. Because that's where all evil begins.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    I know a number of very good people who are Abrahamic-religious (some Christian, some Jewish, some Muslim) and in every case their goodness is in spite of or unrelated to their religion. If you have to believe in eternal torment/bliss and the watchful eye of a Creator in order to treat others with kindness, you're on shaky ground. It should be part of your whole being. My Wiccan and atheist friends are good in equal measure, and they have the additional grace to not go around trying to get others to follow their belief, only their example of humankindness.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Any God that slaughters and tortures so many innocents while enabling and pandering to so many human demons is worse than no God at all.

    I wouldn't give a shit about the opinion of any human with that record, I'd actively seek their disapproval.

    I'm a pessimist, but even I am not enough of a doomer to believe this is the Plan of a Creator.

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  • [–] 35 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Tho shall not rape..... Not in there. Tho shall not own humans, not in there... Etc....

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  • [–] 26 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

    That's one hell of a stretch, pardon the phrasing. Gravin images is another great example, not only do many people ignore this don't own people etc would be a better use of space.

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  • [–] 32 points 9 months ago (24 children)

    I disagree with the condescending nature of them as a whole - humanity knew it was bad to kill and rape before christianity. I don't need 15 commandments written by man, masquerading as the word of the creator of the universe, to teach me how to behave. Wait did I say 15?

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    God came down and delivered a perfect framework but everything is still broken? huh? I don't get your argument here.

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    No I just wanted to see how fast the preacher would come out of you.

    that’s not how God made us.

    Some evidence would be great.

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  • [–] 30 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I am the Lord thy God. Thou shall not have strange gods before Me.

    I’m atheist, so this does not apply.

    Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

    Again.

    Remember to keep holy the Lord's day.

    And again.

    Honor thy father and mother.

    Nice, but hardly something we should legislate.

    Thou shall not kill.

    Duh.

    Thou shall not commit adultery.

    Again, not something we should legislate.

    Thou shall not steal.

    Has merit.

    Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

    If extrapolate this to mean not to lie in general, then it’s good practice for life.

    Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods.

    We’ve already covered stealing, so I imagine these are about jealously. Hardly the responsibility of the state to legislate.

    So, at best I agree with 25% of the Ten Commandments, hardly a “universal code” of morality. Missing rape and slavery, pretty big omissions of you ask me.

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  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Here are the 10 commandments:

    1. You shall have no other gods before me.
    2. You shall make no idols.
    3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
    4. Keep the Sabbath day holy.
    5. Honor your father and your mother.
    6. You shall not murder.
    7. You shall not commit adultery.
    8. You shall not steal.
    9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    10. You shall not covet.

    1-4 are obviously worthless for non-Christians. 5 sounds good on paper, but there are a whole lot of parents that do a lot of harm to their children, so I don't think it's a great blanket rule

    6-10 are solid, although I'd argue 10 is a bit redundant. The main issue with coveting is it can lead to 6-9. I'll give it though since I vetoed 5

    5/10 on the 10 commandments. That's 50%, which is a failing grade


    All that being said, I don't actually have anything against it as a concept, same as I have nothing against Mormons not drinking alcohol, or Muslims not eating pork. In all cases though, I have a problem with the government promoting the idea using tax payer funds

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    This seems like the only genuine reply to the question tbh. Most others comment something like "Well so many Christians do X or Y", but that's not the commandments' fault.

    I think we should all strive to live by 5-10. Except of course if your parents are horrible, then that one shouldn't apply. But then 6, 8, 9 are all basically laws in most places already

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  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    If they remove the non-secular rules, maybe we can talk. They won't, because it's not about "These are good rules," it's about "Remember, Christians own this place."

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    You literally answer your own questions with your denigrating comments.

    But to answer you, here are a few bullet points:

    • My favorite take is Frederick Douglass's characterization about "American Christianity". It is all about hypocrisy and it mostly stems from the white south and their justification for slavery.

    • There are plenty of solid, "good" christian based practices, but there are also way too many bad faith ones.

    • USA has a Constitutional amendment about this, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." by posting the TC in schools, this is ridiculously close to just that.

    • You want this argument to be about whether or not people believe in God or the TC, but it's really about separation of church and state.

    • What did Christ say when asked which was the greatest commandment? Yeah, he didn't even respond with any of the original ten.

    • You know what should be posted in the classroom? The "All I really need to know I learned in kindergarten." poster. That is a better summation of Christ's response than the TC.

    • The TC in schools is a dog whistle issue meant to make dumbass christians, like yourself, argue "Whats so wrong about the TC?", instead of focusing on real issues.

    • I grew up in a very christian, faith based household. The church we belonged to was very kind, supportive of its members, and urged commitment and sacrifice to better the community. I would consider it a strong contender for what Christ intended. But even with that framework growing up, I realized this, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it: the complete and utter bullshit the bible is. It is nothing more than a bunch of stories curated to control the moronic sheep that fear death. It was supported by the ruling classes because it helped support their claims and created this fantasy for the proletariat to feel better about and accept their plight.

    Religious choice should be a personal, private relationship each person has with God. Not a tool used to force all of society to bow to your own beliefs.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Thoughts on the state posting Surat Al-Isra verses 22-39 from the Quran in every classroom?

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Wow. You're like a Jehovah's witness, but online! Let me take a crack at this one.

    Your ten commandments tell you: "Thou shall not kill", but not: "Thou shall not murder". Leaving you Christian weirdos free reign to murder people in random wars in a way that seems totally justified to you mentally.

    You ten commandments tell you to not "take the Lord's name in vain", but I see Christians everyday advocating for Jesus deporting and killing and locking up "the least of these" for no other reason than the color of their skin. Read Matthew 25:40-45 to hear about what Jesus actually wants us to do to help the poor and unfortunate around us!

    Your antiquated religion makes not sense, and forcing it down other people throats just makes others more bitter and frustrated to have to hang out in the same general area as you. Either stfu or adapt to the world where Christians preach about the ten commandments, but refuse to follow any of them.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Your ten commandments tell you: “Thou shall not kill”, but not: “Thou shall not murder”

    This one feels a bit unfair because the commandments would have been written in Hebrew, so the semantic difference is lost in translation

    Your complaints about how Christians act is valid, although I would say they do that in spite of the 10 commandments. Turns out a lot of them are just shitty people

    And before someone thinks I'm proselytizing, I made a separate comment giving the 10 commandments a failing grade as a source of ethics

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    "Real talk"? This is seagulling and you know it. The posting of the commandments carries over the baggage of region in general, and Christianity in particular.

    Not to mention they are in direct opposition of some of the rules of conduct of the university and civilized society (freedom of religion).

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    @ArgumentativeMonotheist @parricc sounds like you've either been reading Thomas Aquinas, or should read him.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    @ArgumentativeMonotheist You might also enjoy "The Quest For Saint Aquin" (1951), a classic science fiction story by Anthony Boucher. It's available free online. sdfo.org/gj/stories/thequestfo

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    @ArgumentativeMonotheist I first encountered it in "The Science Fiction Hall of Fame, Volume 1". It was used by the Science Fiction Writers of America to honor science fiction stories which predated the Hugo and Nebula. Boucher was an outstanding critic, science fiction author, and mystery writer. In fact, the first major mystery convention, BoucherCon, is named after him. He was also quite a religious man. You might also like "The Devil's Day" (1980) by James Blish. He was another devout science fiction author who wrote some brilliant works that included aspects of religion.

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