▲ 1521 ▼ Mamdani to kill the NYC AI chatbot caught telling businesses to break the law— New York mayor says terminating the ‘unusable’ bot will help close a budget gap (themarkup.org) submitted 9 months ago by Beep@lemmus.org to c/technology@lemmy.world 187 comments fedilink hide all child comments In a press conference this week on New York City’s $12 billion budget gap, Mayor Zohran Mamdani zeroed in on the previous administration’s artificial intelligence chatbot as one of “a number of different things we’re going to pursue for savings.”
[–] luthis@lemmy.nz 72 points 9 months ago (60 children) The tankies don't like him? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 60 child comments replies: [–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 152 points 9 months ago (11 children) They don't like electoralism, prefer to LARP revolution while doing nothing to actually lay the groundwork for one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] chaogomu@lemmy.world 112 points 9 months ago (4 children) Which is sort of wild. Marx was very clear that communism could not be delivered by heroes on horseback. But then again, Tankies don't like Marx, they like Lenin, the man who lost an election to actual communists and then had them all killed. He seized power via coup, and then made himself a king, and wrote how kings (vanguard parties) were somehow vital to communism, and how democracy was not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago (3 children) "If your last name ends in 'in', it's time to get out." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) Hey, I recognised that reference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wewbull@feddit.uk 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I didn't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Enjoy! :D permalink fedilink source parent [–] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 59 points 9 months ago (4 children) Tankies are chicken-hawks. They gladly let millions of marginalized peoples suffer and die for a pipedream that those people will fight a communist revolution... on the tankies' behalf. Tankies won't ever be the ones on the front line. They spam fuck comment sections and try to convince as many people as possible to act against their own self interests, to put them in a desperate enough state that the tankoes can more easily manipulate them. Tankies aren't communists, they're red fascists. Same abuser mentality as the fascists they so gleefully surrendered to in November 2024. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 25 points 9 months ago I've looked through the whole thread again and I don't know where you're getting the idea anyone's accusing tankies of being sellouts. Best I can guess is that you misinterpreted the comment immediately above yours as saying tankies are secretly supporting the current fascist regime, is that it? That's not what they're saying, they meant that tankies (I would clarify that it's the chronically online tankies that are like this) want other people to fight the revolution for them, and won't lift a single finger themselves until they can be sure that victory is inevitable. This is because they see themselves as the vanguard that tells everyone else what to do and how to do it, and will be put in charge after the revolution. That's why people call them red fascists (though I don't like that term myself as I don't think they should be conflated with actual fascists, it hinders understanding), they want to be in the fascists' place so they can use the systems of power and control that they built towards a different end (changing the economic system). A previous person I talked to on lemmy.ml not long ago illustrated this mindset well, saying that authoritarianism is only a buzzword made up by the west to demonize their enemies, that it's just people exercising power, and that it's good when communists do it. Here's what I see wrong with this: the tools of a fascist state are purpose-built for oppression, and trying to use them for anything else is futile. You will be corrupted by their power. We should not be trying to take and use these tools, but dismantling them and creating our own which are purpose-built for liberation. permalink fedilink source parent [–] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago Spotted the tankie. Cope and seethe harder. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago Both. They're the intellectual equivalent and ideological opposite of libertarians with equally internally inconsistent views. permalink fedilink source parent [–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago Neither, because that would actually require praxis. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BreadstickNinja@lemmy.world 54 points 9 months ago (2 children) One thing I've learned as a socialist is that there is always a purity test by people who consider themselves purer socialists. Karl Marx himself could post on here and people would accuse him of being a neoliberal stooge. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago but be very careful of labelling people puritanical. Everybody draws lines that when crossed make the other person untrustworthy. This should be encouraged for a healthy democracy. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 27 points 9 months ago (6 children) Tankies don't like anyone, they'll never be satisfied. I'm fairly certain most of them are russian trolls tasked with sowing discord and fracturing the left. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] teslekova@sh.itjust.works 10 points 9 months ago (3 children) Excuse me, we're Chinese trolls, thanks very much; we are unhealthily obsessed with China because it's incredibly economically successful, it's the last hope of actual oldschool dictatorship of the worker socialism, and it's barely avoided being controlled by the market. It's incredibly centralised, it's authoritarian, yes, but it's also building all the solar panels and executing billionaires when they get too powerful and making the imperial nations look like chumps, so you should forgive us for our infatuation. My lack of action and lack of building local organisation? Guilty. I'm trying to correct this. China is not the model for the West, and even the Chinese govt says that, so as a true Chinahead I do not call for Chad Xi to come save us, that is missing the fucking point. We must grow our own socialist organisations to bypass the state, and anarchists and syndicalists might be the best idea for the West, with our individualism and love of freedom. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 13 points 9 months ago (2 children) I honestly can't tell if you're being facetious or not... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] teslekova@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That's probably because my thoughts on the matter are not incredibly settled. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago That's fine. The real world is messy; it's never about "good versus bad," it's always about "better in this context versus worse in this context." China does some things better, like green energy. They're also pretty bad in some areas, like worker's rights, political representation, and human rights in general. That being said, if they saved us from trump, I for one would welcome our new yuan-based overlords. China is still a capitalist country though. It's state capitalism, but capitalism nonetheless. Calling themselves communist is really just branding. Based on some other comments though, clearly tankies in the west don't understand that there can be a discrepancy between what one calls oneself and what one truly is. Oh well... permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago You'd be surprised. I read about a time when there was a power outage in moscow, and for the span of a few hours there were hardly any trolls active on reddit permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Deceptichum 17 points 9 months ago* (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] nforminvasion@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago How does a system that requires a stateless society appeal to hierarchists like tankies? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] grue@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago False accusations mean nothing. permalink fedilink source parent [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 13 points 9 months ago (21 children) If you're comparing shitting on tankies to McCarthyism, you might be a tankie. Lots of people on the left hate tankies, because tankies are more fascist than leftist in praxis. McCarthyism basically accuses anyone with a remotely left-wing opinion as being as bad as a tankie, which is a strawman. Tankies have more in common with McCarthyism than they're willing to admit. That's called horseshoe politics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip 4 points 9 months ago (1 child) I would swap fascism with authoritarianism or totalitarianism. To equal the left and right wing in any kind always sounds like horseshoe theory. But apart from that you are right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago Stalin was nominally communist, functionally fascist. It's not an absurd distinction to make, for anyone capable of understanding nuance. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] sbbq@lemmy.zip 3 points 9 months ago Capitalists could not give a fuck less about tankies, what they think, what they are doing. These people basically only exist on Internet forums and have zero effect on anyone outside of their bubble. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz -1 points 9 months ago (14 children) I know precisely what fascism is, and the dumbfuck tankies accusing Mamdani of it are absolutely wrong. I said they're the same in praxis, not ideology. You'd think a fucking leftist would understand the difference. And your picture is kind of a strawman in this context, because I wasn't using "horseshoe politics" to describe phenomena of the abolition era. I was using it to describe phenomena of the current era where the contexts are different. But since tankies are allergic to nuance, I don't suppose you'll be comprehend that and you'll probably just resort to ad hominems. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago (12 children) I never said everyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I said anyone who accuses Mamdani of being a fascist is a tankie. That's a delusion no one but a tankie would hold. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (10 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" and that's not something that a fairly large portion of people already recognize and find to be a helpful concept? Because authoritarianism, ideological purism, and militarism are sooo different when the people perpetuating them call themselves leftists. Not the same thing at all as the people doing the same things in the name of the nation-state, ethnoreligion, and capital. (/s for anyone who missed it). Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election. But he called himself a communist, so tankies gobble his dick. Tankies love sabotaging electoral processes so they can claim it doesn't work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" Oh, don't worry, nobody's accusing you of actually putting enough thought into things to invent that. Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election The bait and swtich of "all power to the Soviets" to "ummm actually the Party is the people" was actually Trotsky's particular bullshit, but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. so tankies gobble his dick And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. I don't agree with plenty of things from the Bolsheviks - the critiques of Luxembourg I think were particularly apt and prescient. But, with that said, I also don't let my very basic disagreement with that justify alliance with something far worse, the capitalist and fascist forces that the left as a whole opposes. And nonsense like "red fash" does exactly that. And usually seems to follow the Parenti phrased criticism of only allowing respect for revolutions that fail. You're validating horseshoe theory, the most nonsense liberal rewriting of history. You want, you can go kill all the Bolsheviks you really want to after the revolution. Until then, it's the same counterproductive and idiotic posturing that the Stalinist for Fashion idiots demonstrate, except with a black flag instead of a red one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (8 children) Um, no, I've put plenty of thought into it and that's why I said it in the first place. I wouldn't be arguing something that I've never put thought into, because I'm not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I'm saying. but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. Bolsheviks, tankies, what's the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don't fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes. And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. No, I don't have a brand of ideological purity. That's another thing tankies share with the far-right: you're so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that's actually your own. And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I'm not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph. Capitalism is destroying the planet and it's been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that's another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists. Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He's a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist. But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who's not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that's what you believe, then you're not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify). So no, while I'd be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (3 replies) [–] sudo@programming.dev 14 points 9 months ago* (6 children) Historically, a socialist holding an elected executive office of a capitalist government is a precarious position fraught with contradictions. You can only meaningfully govern by making massive concessions to the ruling class and betraying some supporters. Communists will stake out the "he will betray you" position. FWIW the Mamdani administration is very aware of this contradiction and deliberately made promises that he can do by decree, such as the rent freeze. But there's also been some rather heinous concessions, like keeping on a bunch of Zionists in the admin, and also keeping on the NYPD commissioner Jessica Tisch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (5 children) Why would you argue that we should stop doing our duties once we have cast our ballot and the candidate we support won? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) Idk why you think I was arguing that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) because advocating against the current DNC establishment is a necessary step to take to stopping the rachet and pinion mechanism. As long as people like chuck schumer exist in the party you can't be serious about change while advocating to "vote blue no matter who" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) I never even mentioned the DNC or "vote blue" bullshit. You seem to be eager to argue with someone who has opinions different than mine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago* (1 child) well yes, I was arguing what HazardousBanjo said. I am on voyager. My initial comment to their parent comment is below yours and the comment from luthis, but not in reply to you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago Then you need to figure out how to use voyager correctly and reply to the correct user because none of this is showing up in HazardousBanjo's inbox. Its showing up in mine. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 7 points 9 months ago (3 children) I'd say they're skeptical that Mamdani will keep to his promises or that electing him isn't enough. But dislike? I bet every one would've voted for him. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 24 points 9 months ago Assuming they vote at all and don't think the best way to show your dissatisfaction is to stay home and complain on the Internet permalink fedilink source parent [–] Serinus@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) They can't vote. They're either not American or they're bots. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 9 points 9 months ago I believe enough of them are American and Lemmy is a dumb place to create a bot army. permalink fedilink source parent [–] boolean_sledgehammer@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago Tankies don't like objective reality. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 152 points 9 months ago (11 children) They don't like electoralism, prefer to LARP revolution while doing nothing to actually lay the groundwork for one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] chaogomu@lemmy.world 112 points 9 months ago (4 children) Which is sort of wild. Marx was very clear that communism could not be delivered by heroes on horseback. But then again, Tankies don't like Marx, they like Lenin, the man who lost an election to actual communists and then had them all killed. He seized power via coup, and then made himself a king, and wrote how kings (vanguard parties) were somehow vital to communism, and how democracy was not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago (3 children) "If your last name ends in 'in', it's time to get out." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) Hey, I recognised that reference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wewbull@feddit.uk 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I didn't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Enjoy! :D permalink fedilink source parent [–] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 59 points 9 months ago (4 children) Tankies are chicken-hawks. They gladly let millions of marginalized peoples suffer and die for a pipedream that those people will fight a communist revolution... on the tankies' behalf. Tankies won't ever be the ones on the front line. They spam fuck comment sections and try to convince as many people as possible to act against their own self interests, to put them in a desperate enough state that the tankoes can more easily manipulate them. Tankies aren't communists, they're red fascists. Same abuser mentality as the fascists they so gleefully surrendered to in November 2024. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 25 points 9 months ago I've looked through the whole thread again and I don't know where you're getting the idea anyone's accusing tankies of being sellouts. Best I can guess is that you misinterpreted the comment immediately above yours as saying tankies are secretly supporting the current fascist regime, is that it? That's not what they're saying, they meant that tankies (I would clarify that it's the chronically online tankies that are like this) want other people to fight the revolution for them, and won't lift a single finger themselves until they can be sure that victory is inevitable. This is because they see themselves as the vanguard that tells everyone else what to do and how to do it, and will be put in charge after the revolution. That's why people call them red fascists (though I don't like that term myself as I don't think they should be conflated with actual fascists, it hinders understanding), they want to be in the fascists' place so they can use the systems of power and control that they built towards a different end (changing the economic system). A previous person I talked to on lemmy.ml not long ago illustrated this mindset well, saying that authoritarianism is only a buzzword made up by the west to demonize their enemies, that it's just people exercising power, and that it's good when communists do it. Here's what I see wrong with this: the tools of a fascist state are purpose-built for oppression, and trying to use them for anything else is futile. You will be corrupted by their power. We should not be trying to take and use these tools, but dismantling them and creating our own which are purpose-built for liberation. permalink fedilink source parent [–] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago Spotted the tankie. Cope and seethe harder. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago Both. They're the intellectual equivalent and ideological opposite of libertarians with equally internally inconsistent views. permalink fedilink source parent [–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago Neither, because that would actually require praxis. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] chaogomu@lemmy.world 112 points 9 months ago (4 children) Which is sort of wild. Marx was very clear that communism could not be delivered by heroes on horseback. But then again, Tankies don't like Marx, they like Lenin, the man who lost an election to actual communists and then had them all killed. He seized power via coup, and then made himself a king, and wrote how kings (vanguard parties) were somehow vital to communism, and how democracy was not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago (3 children) "If your last name ends in 'in', it's time to get out." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) Hey, I recognised that reference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wewbull@feddit.uk 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I didn't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Enjoy! :D permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago (3 children) "If your last name ends in 'in', it's time to get out." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) Hey, I recognised that reference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wewbull@feddit.uk 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I didn't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Enjoy! :D permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) Hey, I recognised that reference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wewbull@feddit.uk 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I didn't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Enjoy! :D permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I didn't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Enjoy! :D permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 59 points 9 months ago (4 children) Tankies are chicken-hawks. They gladly let millions of marginalized peoples suffer and die for a pipedream that those people will fight a communist revolution... on the tankies' behalf. Tankies won't ever be the ones on the front line. They spam fuck comment sections and try to convince as many people as possible to act against their own self interests, to put them in a desperate enough state that the tankoes can more easily manipulate them. Tankies aren't communists, they're red fascists. Same abuser mentality as the fascists they so gleefully surrendered to in November 2024. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 25 points 9 months ago I've looked through the whole thread again and I don't know where you're getting the idea anyone's accusing tankies of being sellouts. Best I can guess is that you misinterpreted the comment immediately above yours as saying tankies are secretly supporting the current fascist regime, is that it? That's not what they're saying, they meant that tankies (I would clarify that it's the chronically online tankies that are like this) want other people to fight the revolution for them, and won't lift a single finger themselves until they can be sure that victory is inevitable. This is because they see themselves as the vanguard that tells everyone else what to do and how to do it, and will be put in charge after the revolution. That's why people call them red fascists (though I don't like that term myself as I don't think they should be conflated with actual fascists, it hinders understanding), they want to be in the fascists' place so they can use the systems of power and control that they built towards a different end (changing the economic system). A previous person I talked to on lemmy.ml not long ago illustrated this mindset well, saying that authoritarianism is only a buzzword made up by the west to demonize their enemies, that it's just people exercising power, and that it's good when communists do it. Here's what I see wrong with this: the tools of a fascist state are purpose-built for oppression, and trying to use them for anything else is futile. You will be corrupted by their power. We should not be trying to take and use these tools, but dismantling them and creating our own which are purpose-built for liberation. permalink fedilink source parent [–] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago Spotted the tankie. Cope and seethe harder. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago Both. They're the intellectual equivalent and ideological opposite of libertarians with equally internally inconsistent views. permalink fedilink source parent [–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago Neither, because that would actually require praxis. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 25 points 9 months ago I've looked through the whole thread again and I don't know where you're getting the idea anyone's accusing tankies of being sellouts. Best I can guess is that you misinterpreted the comment immediately above yours as saying tankies are secretly supporting the current fascist regime, is that it? That's not what they're saying, they meant that tankies (I would clarify that it's the chronically online tankies that are like this) want other people to fight the revolution for them, and won't lift a single finger themselves until they can be sure that victory is inevitable. This is because they see themselves as the vanguard that tells everyone else what to do and how to do it, and will be put in charge after the revolution. That's why people call them red fascists (though I don't like that term myself as I don't think they should be conflated with actual fascists, it hinders understanding), they want to be in the fascists' place so they can use the systems of power and control that they built towards a different end (changing the economic system). A previous person I talked to on lemmy.ml not long ago illustrated this mindset well, saying that authoritarianism is only a buzzword made up by the west to demonize their enemies, that it's just people exercising power, and that it's good when communists do it. Here's what I see wrong with this: the tools of a fascist state are purpose-built for oppression, and trying to use them for anything else is futile. You will be corrupted by their power. We should not be trying to take and use these tools, but dismantling them and creating our own which are purpose-built for liberation. permalink fedilink source parent [–] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago Spotted the tankie. Cope and seethe harder. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago Both. They're the intellectual equivalent and ideological opposite of libertarians with equally internally inconsistent views. permalink fedilink source parent [–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago Neither, because that would actually require praxis. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 25 points 9 months ago I've looked through the whole thread again and I don't know where you're getting the idea anyone's accusing tankies of being sellouts. Best I can guess is that you misinterpreted the comment immediately above yours as saying tankies are secretly supporting the current fascist regime, is that it? That's not what they're saying, they meant that tankies (I would clarify that it's the chronically online tankies that are like this) want other people to fight the revolution for them, and won't lift a single finger themselves until they can be sure that victory is inevitable. This is because they see themselves as the vanguard that tells everyone else what to do and how to do it, and will be put in charge after the revolution. That's why people call them red fascists (though I don't like that term myself as I don't think they should be conflated with actual fascists, it hinders understanding), they want to be in the fascists' place so they can use the systems of power and control that they built towards a different end (changing the economic system). A previous person I talked to on lemmy.ml not long ago illustrated this mindset well, saying that authoritarianism is only a buzzword made up by the west to demonize their enemies, that it's just people exercising power, and that it's good when communists do it. Here's what I see wrong with this: the tools of a fascist state are purpose-built for oppression, and trying to use them for anything else is futile. You will be corrupted by their power. We should not be trying to take and use these tools, but dismantling them and creating our own which are purpose-built for liberation. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago Spotted the tankie. Cope and seethe harder. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago Both. They're the intellectual equivalent and ideological opposite of libertarians with equally internally inconsistent views. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago Neither, because that would actually require praxis. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BreadstickNinja@lemmy.world 54 points 9 months ago (2 children) One thing I've learned as a socialist is that there is always a purity test by people who consider themselves purer socialists. Karl Marx himself could post on here and people would accuse him of being a neoliberal stooge. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago but be very careful of labelling people puritanical. Everybody draws lines that when crossed make the other person untrustworthy. This should be encouraged for a healthy democracy. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago but be very careful of labelling people puritanical. Everybody draws lines that when crossed make the other person untrustworthy. This should be encouraged for a healthy democracy. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 27 points 9 months ago (6 children) Tankies don't like anyone, they'll never be satisfied. I'm fairly certain most of them are russian trolls tasked with sowing discord and fracturing the left. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] teslekova@sh.itjust.works 10 points 9 months ago (3 children) Excuse me, we're Chinese trolls, thanks very much; we are unhealthily obsessed with China because it's incredibly economically successful, it's the last hope of actual oldschool dictatorship of the worker socialism, and it's barely avoided being controlled by the market. It's incredibly centralised, it's authoritarian, yes, but it's also building all the solar panels and executing billionaires when they get too powerful and making the imperial nations look like chumps, so you should forgive us for our infatuation. My lack of action and lack of building local organisation? Guilty. I'm trying to correct this. China is not the model for the West, and even the Chinese govt says that, so as a true Chinahead I do not call for Chad Xi to come save us, that is missing the fucking point. We must grow our own socialist organisations to bypass the state, and anarchists and syndicalists might be the best idea for the West, with our individualism and love of freedom. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 13 points 9 months ago (2 children) I honestly can't tell if you're being facetious or not... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] teslekova@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That's probably because my thoughts on the matter are not incredibly settled. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago That's fine. The real world is messy; it's never about "good versus bad," it's always about "better in this context versus worse in this context." China does some things better, like green energy. They're also pretty bad in some areas, like worker's rights, political representation, and human rights in general. That being said, if they saved us from trump, I for one would welcome our new yuan-based overlords. China is still a capitalist country though. It's state capitalism, but capitalism nonetheless. Calling themselves communist is really just branding. Based on some other comments though, clearly tankies in the west don't understand that there can be a discrepancy between what one calls oneself and what one truly is. Oh well... permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago You'd be surprised. I read about a time when there was a power outage in moscow, and for the span of a few hours there were hardly any trolls active on reddit permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] teslekova@sh.itjust.works 10 points 9 months ago (3 children) Excuse me, we're Chinese trolls, thanks very much; we are unhealthily obsessed with China because it's incredibly economically successful, it's the last hope of actual oldschool dictatorship of the worker socialism, and it's barely avoided being controlled by the market. It's incredibly centralised, it's authoritarian, yes, but it's also building all the solar panels and executing billionaires when they get too powerful and making the imperial nations look like chumps, so you should forgive us for our infatuation. My lack of action and lack of building local organisation? Guilty. I'm trying to correct this. China is not the model for the West, and even the Chinese govt says that, so as a true Chinahead I do not call for Chad Xi to come save us, that is missing the fucking point. We must grow our own socialist organisations to bypass the state, and anarchists and syndicalists might be the best idea for the West, with our individualism and love of freedom. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 13 points 9 months ago (2 children) I honestly can't tell if you're being facetious or not... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] teslekova@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That's probably because my thoughts on the matter are not incredibly settled. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago That's fine. The real world is messy; it's never about "good versus bad," it's always about "better in this context versus worse in this context." China does some things better, like green energy. They're also pretty bad in some areas, like worker's rights, political representation, and human rights in general. That being said, if they saved us from trump, I for one would welcome our new yuan-based overlords. China is still a capitalist country though. It's state capitalism, but capitalism nonetheless. Calling themselves communist is really just branding. Based on some other comments though, clearly tankies in the west don't understand that there can be a discrepancy between what one calls oneself and what one truly is. Oh well... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 13 points 9 months ago (2 children) I honestly can't tell if you're being facetious or not... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] teslekova@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That's probably because my thoughts on the matter are not incredibly settled. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago That's fine. The real world is messy; it's never about "good versus bad," it's always about "better in this context versus worse in this context." China does some things better, like green energy. They're also pretty bad in some areas, like worker's rights, political representation, and human rights in general. That being said, if they saved us from trump, I for one would welcome our new yuan-based overlords. China is still a capitalist country though. It's state capitalism, but capitalism nonetheless. Calling themselves communist is really just branding. Based on some other comments though, clearly tankies in the west don't understand that there can be a discrepancy between what one calls oneself and what one truly is. Oh well... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] teslekova@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That's probably because my thoughts on the matter are not incredibly settled. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago That's fine. The real world is messy; it's never about "good versus bad," it's always about "better in this context versus worse in this context." China does some things better, like green energy. They're also pretty bad in some areas, like worker's rights, political representation, and human rights in general. That being said, if they saved us from trump, I for one would welcome our new yuan-based overlords. China is still a capitalist country though. It's state capitalism, but capitalism nonetheless. Calling themselves communist is really just branding. Based on some other comments though, clearly tankies in the west don't understand that there can be a discrepancy between what one calls oneself and what one truly is. Oh well... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago That's fine. The real world is messy; it's never about "good versus bad," it's always about "better in this context versus worse in this context." China does some things better, like green energy. They're also pretty bad in some areas, like worker's rights, political representation, and human rights in general. That being said, if they saved us from trump, I for one would welcome our new yuan-based overlords. China is still a capitalist country though. It's state capitalism, but capitalism nonetheless. Calling themselves communist is really just branding. Based on some other comments though, clearly tankies in the west don't understand that there can be a discrepancy between what one calls oneself and what one truly is. Oh well... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago You'd be surprised. I read about a time when there was a power outage in moscow, and for the span of a few hours there were hardly any trolls active on reddit permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago You'd be surprised. I read about a time when there was a power outage in moscow, and for the span of a few hours there were hardly any trolls active on reddit permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Deceptichum 17 points 9 months ago* (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] nforminvasion@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago How does a system that requires a stateless society appeal to hierarchists like tankies? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] grue@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago False accusations mean nothing. permalink fedilink source parent [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 13 points 9 months ago (21 children) If you're comparing shitting on tankies to McCarthyism, you might be a tankie. Lots of people on the left hate tankies, because tankies are more fascist than leftist in praxis. McCarthyism basically accuses anyone with a remotely left-wing opinion as being as bad as a tankie, which is a strawman. Tankies have more in common with McCarthyism than they're willing to admit. That's called horseshoe politics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip 4 points 9 months ago (1 child) I would swap fascism with authoritarianism or totalitarianism. To equal the left and right wing in any kind always sounds like horseshoe theory. But apart from that you are right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago Stalin was nominally communist, functionally fascist. It's not an absurd distinction to make, for anyone capable of understanding nuance. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] sbbq@lemmy.zip 3 points 9 months ago Capitalists could not give a fuck less about tankies, what they think, what they are doing. These people basically only exist on Internet forums and have zero effect on anyone outside of their bubble. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz -1 points 9 months ago (14 children) I know precisely what fascism is, and the dumbfuck tankies accusing Mamdani of it are absolutely wrong. I said they're the same in praxis, not ideology. You'd think a fucking leftist would understand the difference. And your picture is kind of a strawman in this context, because I wasn't using "horseshoe politics" to describe phenomena of the abolition era. I was using it to describe phenomena of the current era where the contexts are different. But since tankies are allergic to nuance, I don't suppose you'll be comprehend that and you'll probably just resort to ad hominems. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago (12 children) I never said everyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I said anyone who accuses Mamdani of being a fascist is a tankie. That's a delusion no one but a tankie would hold. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (10 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" and that's not something that a fairly large portion of people already recognize and find to be a helpful concept? Because authoritarianism, ideological purism, and militarism are sooo different when the people perpetuating them call themselves leftists. Not the same thing at all as the people doing the same things in the name of the nation-state, ethnoreligion, and capital. (/s for anyone who missed it). Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election. But he called himself a communist, so tankies gobble his dick. Tankies love sabotaging electoral processes so they can claim it doesn't work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" Oh, don't worry, nobody's accusing you of actually putting enough thought into things to invent that. Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election The bait and swtich of "all power to the Soviets" to "ummm actually the Party is the people" was actually Trotsky's particular bullshit, but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. so tankies gobble his dick And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. I don't agree with plenty of things from the Bolsheviks - the critiques of Luxembourg I think were particularly apt and prescient. But, with that said, I also don't let my very basic disagreement with that justify alliance with something far worse, the capitalist and fascist forces that the left as a whole opposes. And nonsense like "red fash" does exactly that. And usually seems to follow the Parenti phrased criticism of only allowing respect for revolutions that fail. You're validating horseshoe theory, the most nonsense liberal rewriting of history. You want, you can go kill all the Bolsheviks you really want to after the revolution. Until then, it's the same counterproductive and idiotic posturing that the Stalinist for Fashion idiots demonstrate, except with a black flag instead of a red one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (8 children) Um, no, I've put plenty of thought into it and that's why I said it in the first place. I wouldn't be arguing something that I've never put thought into, because I'm not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I'm saying. but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. Bolsheviks, tankies, what's the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don't fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes. And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. No, I don't have a brand of ideological purity. That's another thing tankies share with the far-right: you're so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that's actually your own. And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I'm not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph. Capitalism is destroying the planet and it's been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that's another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists. Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He's a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist. But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who's not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that's what you believe, then you're not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify). So no, while I'd be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (3 replies)
[+] Deceptichum 17 points 9 months ago* (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] nforminvasion@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago How does a system that requires a stateless society appeal to hierarchists like tankies? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] nforminvasion@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago How does a system that requires a stateless society appeal to hierarchists like tankies? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nforminvasion@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago How does a system that requires a stateless society appeal to hierarchists like tankies? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] grue@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago False accusations mean nothing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 13 points 9 months ago (21 children) If you're comparing shitting on tankies to McCarthyism, you might be a tankie. Lots of people on the left hate tankies, because tankies are more fascist than leftist in praxis. McCarthyism basically accuses anyone with a remotely left-wing opinion as being as bad as a tankie, which is a strawman. Tankies have more in common with McCarthyism than they're willing to admit. That's called horseshoe politics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip 4 points 9 months ago (1 child) I would swap fascism with authoritarianism or totalitarianism. To equal the left and right wing in any kind always sounds like horseshoe theory. But apart from that you are right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago Stalin was nominally communist, functionally fascist. It's not an absurd distinction to make, for anyone capable of understanding nuance. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] sbbq@lemmy.zip 3 points 9 months ago Capitalists could not give a fuck less about tankies, what they think, what they are doing. These people basically only exist on Internet forums and have zero effect on anyone outside of their bubble. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz -1 points 9 months ago (14 children) I know precisely what fascism is, and the dumbfuck tankies accusing Mamdani of it are absolutely wrong. I said they're the same in praxis, not ideology. You'd think a fucking leftist would understand the difference. And your picture is kind of a strawman in this context, because I wasn't using "horseshoe politics" to describe phenomena of the abolition era. I was using it to describe phenomena of the current era where the contexts are different. But since tankies are allergic to nuance, I don't suppose you'll be comprehend that and you'll probably just resort to ad hominems. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago (12 children) I never said everyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I said anyone who accuses Mamdani of being a fascist is a tankie. That's a delusion no one but a tankie would hold. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (10 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" and that's not something that a fairly large portion of people already recognize and find to be a helpful concept? Because authoritarianism, ideological purism, and militarism are sooo different when the people perpetuating them call themselves leftists. Not the same thing at all as the people doing the same things in the name of the nation-state, ethnoreligion, and capital. (/s for anyone who missed it). Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election. But he called himself a communist, so tankies gobble his dick. Tankies love sabotaging electoral processes so they can claim it doesn't work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" Oh, don't worry, nobody's accusing you of actually putting enough thought into things to invent that. Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election The bait and swtich of "all power to the Soviets" to "ummm actually the Party is the people" was actually Trotsky's particular bullshit, but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. so tankies gobble his dick And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. I don't agree with plenty of things from the Bolsheviks - the critiques of Luxembourg I think were particularly apt and prescient. But, with that said, I also don't let my very basic disagreement with that justify alliance with something far worse, the capitalist and fascist forces that the left as a whole opposes. And nonsense like "red fash" does exactly that. And usually seems to follow the Parenti phrased criticism of only allowing respect for revolutions that fail. You're validating horseshoe theory, the most nonsense liberal rewriting of history. You want, you can go kill all the Bolsheviks you really want to after the revolution. Until then, it's the same counterproductive and idiotic posturing that the Stalinist for Fashion idiots demonstrate, except with a black flag instead of a red one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (8 children) Um, no, I've put plenty of thought into it and that's why I said it in the first place. I wouldn't be arguing something that I've never put thought into, because I'm not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I'm saying. but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. Bolsheviks, tankies, what's the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don't fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes. And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. No, I don't have a brand of ideological purity. That's another thing tankies share with the far-right: you're so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that's actually your own. And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I'm not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph. Capitalism is destroying the planet and it's been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that's another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists. Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He's a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist. But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who's not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that's what you believe, then you're not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify). So no, while I'd be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip 4 points 9 months ago (1 child) I would swap fascism with authoritarianism or totalitarianism. To equal the left and right wing in any kind always sounds like horseshoe theory. But apart from that you are right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago Stalin was nominally communist, functionally fascist. It's not an absurd distinction to make, for anyone capable of understanding nuance. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago Stalin was nominally communist, functionally fascist. It's not an absurd distinction to make, for anyone capable of understanding nuance. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] sbbq@lemmy.zip 3 points 9 months ago Capitalists could not give a fuck less about tankies, what they think, what they are doing. These people basically only exist on Internet forums and have zero effect on anyone outside of their bubble. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sbbq@lemmy.zip 3 points 9 months ago Capitalists could not give a fuck less about tankies, what they think, what they are doing. These people basically only exist on Internet forums and have zero effect on anyone outside of their bubble. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz -1 points 9 months ago (14 children) I know precisely what fascism is, and the dumbfuck tankies accusing Mamdani of it are absolutely wrong. I said they're the same in praxis, not ideology. You'd think a fucking leftist would understand the difference. And your picture is kind of a strawman in this context, because I wasn't using "horseshoe politics" to describe phenomena of the abolition era. I was using it to describe phenomena of the current era where the contexts are different. But since tankies are allergic to nuance, I don't suppose you'll be comprehend that and you'll probably just resort to ad hominems. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago (12 children) I never said everyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I said anyone who accuses Mamdani of being a fascist is a tankie. That's a delusion no one but a tankie would hold. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (10 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" and that's not something that a fairly large portion of people already recognize and find to be a helpful concept? Because authoritarianism, ideological purism, and militarism are sooo different when the people perpetuating them call themselves leftists. Not the same thing at all as the people doing the same things in the name of the nation-state, ethnoreligion, and capital. (/s for anyone who missed it). Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election. But he called himself a communist, so tankies gobble his dick. Tankies love sabotaging electoral processes so they can claim it doesn't work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" Oh, don't worry, nobody's accusing you of actually putting enough thought into things to invent that. Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election The bait and swtich of "all power to the Soviets" to "ummm actually the Party is the people" was actually Trotsky's particular bullshit, but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. so tankies gobble his dick And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. I don't agree with plenty of things from the Bolsheviks - the critiques of Luxembourg I think were particularly apt and prescient. But, with that said, I also don't let my very basic disagreement with that justify alliance with something far worse, the capitalist and fascist forces that the left as a whole opposes. And nonsense like "red fash" does exactly that. And usually seems to follow the Parenti phrased criticism of only allowing respect for revolutions that fail. You're validating horseshoe theory, the most nonsense liberal rewriting of history. You want, you can go kill all the Bolsheviks you really want to after the revolution. Until then, it's the same counterproductive and idiotic posturing that the Stalinist for Fashion idiots demonstrate, except with a black flag instead of a red one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (8 children) Um, no, I've put plenty of thought into it and that's why I said it in the first place. I wouldn't be arguing something that I've never put thought into, because I'm not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I'm saying. but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. Bolsheviks, tankies, what's the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don't fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes. And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. No, I don't have a brand of ideological purity. That's another thing tankies share with the far-right: you're so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that's actually your own. And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I'm not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph. Capitalism is destroying the planet and it's been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that's another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists. Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He's a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist. But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who's not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that's what you believe, then you're not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify). So no, while I'd be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz -1 points 9 months ago (14 children) I know precisely what fascism is, and the dumbfuck tankies accusing Mamdani of it are absolutely wrong. I said they're the same in praxis, not ideology. You'd think a fucking leftist would understand the difference. And your picture is kind of a strawman in this context, because I wasn't using "horseshoe politics" to describe phenomena of the abolition era. I was using it to describe phenomena of the current era where the contexts are different. But since tankies are allergic to nuance, I don't suppose you'll be comprehend that and you'll probably just resort to ad hominems. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago (12 children) I never said everyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I said anyone who accuses Mamdani of being a fascist is a tankie. That's a delusion no one but a tankie would hold. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (10 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" and that's not something that a fairly large portion of people already recognize and find to be a helpful concept? Because authoritarianism, ideological purism, and militarism are sooo different when the people perpetuating them call themselves leftists. Not the same thing at all as the people doing the same things in the name of the nation-state, ethnoreligion, and capital. (/s for anyone who missed it). Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election. But he called himself a communist, so tankies gobble his dick. Tankies love sabotaging electoral processes so they can claim it doesn't work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" Oh, don't worry, nobody's accusing you of actually putting enough thought into things to invent that. Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election The bait and swtich of "all power to the Soviets" to "ummm actually the Party is the people" was actually Trotsky's particular bullshit, but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. so tankies gobble his dick And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. I don't agree with plenty of things from the Bolsheviks - the critiques of Luxembourg I think were particularly apt and prescient. But, with that said, I also don't let my very basic disagreement with that justify alliance with something far worse, the capitalist and fascist forces that the left as a whole opposes. And nonsense like "red fash" does exactly that. And usually seems to follow the Parenti phrased criticism of only allowing respect for revolutions that fail. You're validating horseshoe theory, the most nonsense liberal rewriting of history. You want, you can go kill all the Bolsheviks you really want to after the revolution. Until then, it's the same counterproductive and idiotic posturing that the Stalinist for Fashion idiots demonstrate, except with a black flag instead of a red one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (8 children) Um, no, I've put plenty of thought into it and that's why I said it in the first place. I wouldn't be arguing something that I've never put thought into, because I'm not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I'm saying. but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. Bolsheviks, tankies, what's the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don't fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes. And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. No, I don't have a brand of ideological purity. That's another thing tankies share with the far-right: you're so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that's actually your own. And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I'm not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph. Capitalism is destroying the planet and it's been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that's another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists. Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He's a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist. But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who's not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that's what you believe, then you're not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify). So no, while I'd be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago (12 children) I never said everyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I said anyone who accuses Mamdani of being a fascist is a tankie. That's a delusion no one but a tankie would hold. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (10 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" and that's not something that a fairly large portion of people already recognize and find to be a helpful concept? Because authoritarianism, ideological purism, and militarism are sooo different when the people perpetuating them call themselves leftists. Not the same thing at all as the people doing the same things in the name of the nation-state, ethnoreligion, and capital. (/s for anyone who missed it). Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election. But he called himself a communist, so tankies gobble his dick. Tankies love sabotaging electoral processes so they can claim it doesn't work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" Oh, don't worry, nobody's accusing you of actually putting enough thought into things to invent that. Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election The bait and swtich of "all power to the Soviets" to "ummm actually the Party is the people" was actually Trotsky's particular bullshit, but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. so tankies gobble his dick And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. I don't agree with plenty of things from the Bolsheviks - the critiques of Luxembourg I think were particularly apt and prescient. But, with that said, I also don't let my very basic disagreement with that justify alliance with something far worse, the capitalist and fascist forces that the left as a whole opposes. And nonsense like "red fash" does exactly that. And usually seems to follow the Parenti phrased criticism of only allowing respect for revolutions that fail. You're validating horseshoe theory, the most nonsense liberal rewriting of history. You want, you can go kill all the Bolsheviks you really want to after the revolution. Until then, it's the same counterproductive and idiotic posturing that the Stalinist for Fashion idiots demonstrate, except with a black flag instead of a red one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (8 children) Um, no, I've put plenty of thought into it and that's why I said it in the first place. I wouldn't be arguing something that I've never put thought into, because I'm not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I'm saying. but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. Bolsheviks, tankies, what's the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don't fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes. And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. No, I don't have a brand of ideological purity. That's another thing tankies share with the far-right: you're so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that's actually your own. And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I'm not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph. Capitalism is destroying the planet and it's been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that's another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists. Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He's a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist. But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who's not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that's what you believe, then you're not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify). So no, while I'd be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago (12 children) I never said everyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I said anyone who accuses Mamdani of being a fascist is a tankie. That's a delusion no one but a tankie would hold. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (10 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" and that's not something that a fairly large portion of people already recognize and find to be a helpful concept? Because authoritarianism, ideological purism, and militarism are sooo different when the people perpetuating them call themselves leftists. Not the same thing at all as the people doing the same things in the name of the nation-state, ethnoreligion, and capital. (/s for anyone who missed it). Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election. But he called himself a communist, so tankies gobble his dick. Tankies love sabotaging electoral processes so they can claim it doesn't work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" Oh, don't worry, nobody's accusing you of actually putting enough thought into things to invent that. Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election The bait and swtich of "all power to the Soviets" to "ummm actually the Party is the people" was actually Trotsky's particular bullshit, but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. so tankies gobble his dick And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. I don't agree with plenty of things from the Bolsheviks - the critiques of Luxembourg I think were particularly apt and prescient. But, with that said, I also don't let my very basic disagreement with that justify alliance with something far worse, the capitalist and fascist forces that the left as a whole opposes. And nonsense like "red fash" does exactly that. And usually seems to follow the Parenti phrased criticism of only allowing respect for revolutions that fail. You're validating horseshoe theory, the most nonsense liberal rewriting of history. You want, you can go kill all the Bolsheviks you really want to after the revolution. Until then, it's the same counterproductive and idiotic posturing that the Stalinist for Fashion idiots demonstrate, except with a black flag instead of a red one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (8 children) Um, no, I've put plenty of thought into it and that's why I said it in the first place. I wouldn't be arguing something that I've never put thought into, because I'm not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I'm saying. but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. Bolsheviks, tankies, what's the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don't fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes. And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. No, I don't have a brand of ideological purity. That's another thing tankies share with the far-right: you're so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that's actually your own. And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I'm not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph. Capitalism is destroying the planet and it's been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that's another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists. Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He's a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist. But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who's not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that's what you believe, then you're not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify). So no, while I'd be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (10 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" and that's not something that a fairly large portion of people already recognize and find to be a helpful concept? Because authoritarianism, ideological purism, and militarism are sooo different when the people perpetuating them call themselves leftists. Not the same thing at all as the people doing the same things in the name of the nation-state, ethnoreligion, and capital. (/s for anyone who missed it). Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election. But he called himself a communist, so tankies gobble his dick. Tankies love sabotaging electoral processes so they can claim it doesn't work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" Oh, don't worry, nobody's accusing you of actually putting enough thought into things to invent that. Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election The bait and swtich of "all power to the Soviets" to "ummm actually the Party is the people" was actually Trotsky's particular bullshit, but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. so tankies gobble his dick And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. I don't agree with plenty of things from the Bolsheviks - the critiques of Luxembourg I think were particularly apt and prescient. But, with that said, I also don't let my very basic disagreement with that justify alliance with something far worse, the capitalist and fascist forces that the left as a whole opposes. And nonsense like "red fash" does exactly that. And usually seems to follow the Parenti phrased criticism of only allowing respect for revolutions that fail. You're validating horseshoe theory, the most nonsense liberal rewriting of history. You want, you can go kill all the Bolsheviks you really want to after the revolution. Until then, it's the same counterproductive and idiotic posturing that the Stalinist for Fashion idiots demonstrate, except with a black flag instead of a red one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (8 children) Um, no, I've put plenty of thought into it and that's why I said it in the first place. I wouldn't be arguing something that I've never put thought into, because I'm not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I'm saying. but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. Bolsheviks, tankies, what's the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don't fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes. And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. No, I don't have a brand of ideological purity. That's another thing tankies share with the far-right: you're so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that's actually your own. And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I'm not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph. Capitalism is destroying the planet and it's been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that's another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists. Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He's a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist. But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who's not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that's what you believe, then you're not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify). So no, while I'd be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (10 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" and that's not something that a fairly large portion of people already recognize and find to be a helpful concept? Because authoritarianism, ideological purism, and militarism are sooo different when the people perpetuating them call themselves leftists. Not the same thing at all as the people doing the same things in the name of the nation-state, ethnoreligion, and capital. (/s for anyone who missed it). Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election. But he called himself a communist, so tankies gobble his dick. Tankies love sabotaging electoral processes so they can claim it doesn't work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" Oh, don't worry, nobody's accusing you of actually putting enough thought into things to invent that. Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election The bait and swtich of "all power to the Soviets" to "ummm actually the Party is the people" was actually Trotsky's particular bullshit, but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. so tankies gobble his dick And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. I don't agree with plenty of things from the Bolsheviks - the critiques of Luxembourg I think were particularly apt and prescient. But, with that said, I also don't let my very basic disagreement with that justify alliance with something far worse, the capitalist and fascist forces that the left as a whole opposes. And nonsense like "red fash" does exactly that. And usually seems to follow the Parenti phrased criticism of only allowing respect for revolutions that fail. You're validating horseshoe theory, the most nonsense liberal rewriting of history. You want, you can go kill all the Bolsheviks you really want to after the revolution. Until then, it's the same counterproductive and idiotic posturing that the Stalinist for Fashion idiots demonstrate, except with a black flag instead of a red one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (8 children) Um, no, I've put plenty of thought into it and that's why I said it in the first place. I wouldn't be arguing something that I've never put thought into, because I'm not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I'm saying. but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. Bolsheviks, tankies, what's the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don't fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes. And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. No, I don't have a brand of ideological purity. That's another thing tankies share with the far-right: you're so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that's actually your own. And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I'm not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph. Capitalism is destroying the planet and it's been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that's another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists. Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He's a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist. But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who's not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that's what you believe, then you're not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify). So no, while I'd be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Cause I totally invented the term "red fash" Oh, don't worry, nobody's accusing you of actually putting enough thought into things to invent that. Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election The bait and swtich of "all power to the Soviets" to "ummm actually the Party is the people" was actually Trotsky's particular bullshit, but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. so tankies gobble his dick And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. I don't agree with plenty of things from the Bolsheviks - the critiques of Luxembourg I think were particularly apt and prescient. But, with that said, I also don't let my very basic disagreement with that justify alliance with something far worse, the capitalist and fascist forces that the left as a whole opposes. And nonsense like "red fash" does exactly that. And usually seems to follow the Parenti phrased criticism of only allowing respect for revolutions that fail. You're validating horseshoe theory, the most nonsense liberal rewriting of history. You want, you can go kill all the Bolsheviks you really want to after the revolution. Until then, it's the same counterproductive and idiotic posturing that the Stalinist for Fashion idiots demonstrate, except with a black flag instead of a red one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (8 children) Um, no, I've put plenty of thought into it and that's why I said it in the first place. I wouldn't be arguing something that I've never put thought into, because I'm not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I'm saying. but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. Bolsheviks, tankies, what's the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don't fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes. And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. No, I don't have a brand of ideological purity. That's another thing tankies share with the far-right: you're so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that's actually your own. And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I'm not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph. Capitalism is destroying the planet and it's been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that's another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists. Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He's a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist. But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who's not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that's what you believe, then you're not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify). So no, while I'd be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (8 children) Um, no, I've put plenty of thought into it and that's why I said it in the first place. I wouldn't be arguing something that I've never put thought into, because I'm not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I'm saying. but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it. Bolsheviks, tankies, what's the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don't fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes. And you consider everyone who doesn't swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems. No, I don't have a brand of ideological purity. That's another thing tankies share with the far-right: you're so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that's actually your own. And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I'm not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph. Capitalism is destroying the planet and it's been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that's another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists. Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He's a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist. But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who's not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that's what you believe, then you're not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify). So no, while I'd be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once Yeah, because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal. You want to bitch about tankies, go right ahead. You want to claim they're equal to fascists, you're doing the same stupidity liberals do with their horseshoe nonsense, and for the same reason - it lets you take the status quo as a best of all worlds, since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. they think anyone who isn't on their side is on the opposite side I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. So. I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels It is. You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda, which somehow still exists and is the party line. You make a strawman of what tankies believe, then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such, and pretend that's not equally ridiculous. I'm not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals The terms you use certainly imply that. So you should probably stop doing that if you don't want to be considered stupid in that regard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago (6 children) because you disagree with two things doesn't make them equal Fascists often say "Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn't make it evil!" as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems. you're doing the same stupidity liberals do I'd rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it. since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole. No, that's what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they're tankies or literal fascists. I'm not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such. Well you're pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them... You're also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda... You make a strawman of what tankies believe No, but something doesn't have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don't fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn't mean anything. ...then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie. What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. In both cases there's a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they're doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects. And if you're about to label me as an "enemy of the proletariat" just because I'm against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that's something a tankie would do also. The terms you use certainly imply that. No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you're incapable of making that distinction, that's on you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (5 children) What you're doing is no different from when the literal fascists say "You can't just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!" I don't. I call fascists fascists. Actually it's not. Because you're calling people who are left-wing fascists. So either you don't know what fascism is, or you don't give a shit. Your nonsense about methodology rather than ideology is, per your own statements, meaningless. And if you're about to You really do love playing with your little strawman dolls, don't you? If you're incapable of making that distinction No, your thought is just confused and stupid. Have fun with your gymnastics to justify your defense of the status quo. Your arguments are just "nuh uh! tankies bad! everyone I don't like is tankies!". So nothing of value is lost when I block you now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) Hahahaha this shit is why nobody goes to your birthday party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at you being authoritarian! You must be a fascist! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 9 months ago How am I being authoritarian? My prediction about the ad hominems turned out to be accurate, apparently... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sudo@programming.dev 14 points 9 months ago* (6 children) Historically, a socialist holding an elected executive office of a capitalist government is a precarious position fraught with contradictions. You can only meaningfully govern by making massive concessions to the ruling class and betraying some supporters. Communists will stake out the "he will betray you" position. FWIW the Mamdani administration is very aware of this contradiction and deliberately made promises that he can do by decree, such as the rent freeze. But there's also been some rather heinous concessions, like keeping on a bunch of Zionists in the admin, and also keeping on the NYPD commissioner Jessica Tisch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (5 children) Why would you argue that we should stop doing our duties once we have cast our ballot and the candidate we support won? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) Idk why you think I was arguing that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) because advocating against the current DNC establishment is a necessary step to take to stopping the rachet and pinion mechanism. As long as people like chuck schumer exist in the party you can't be serious about change while advocating to "vote blue no matter who" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) I never even mentioned the DNC or "vote blue" bullshit. You seem to be eager to argue with someone who has opinions different than mine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago* (1 child) well yes, I was arguing what HazardousBanjo said. I am on voyager. My initial comment to their parent comment is below yours and the comment from luthis, but not in reply to you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago Then you need to figure out how to use voyager correctly and reply to the correct user because none of this is showing up in HazardousBanjo's inbox. Its showing up in mine. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (5 children) Why would you argue that we should stop doing our duties once we have cast our ballot and the candidate we support won? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) Idk why you think I was arguing that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) because advocating against the current DNC establishment is a necessary step to take to stopping the rachet and pinion mechanism. As long as people like chuck schumer exist in the party you can't be serious about change while advocating to "vote blue no matter who" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) I never even mentioned the DNC or "vote blue" bullshit. You seem to be eager to argue with someone who has opinions different than mine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago* (1 child) well yes, I was arguing what HazardousBanjo said. I am on voyager. My initial comment to their parent comment is below yours and the comment from luthis, but not in reply to you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago Then you need to figure out how to use voyager correctly and reply to the correct user because none of this is showing up in HazardousBanjo's inbox. Its showing up in mine. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) Idk why you think I was arguing that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) because advocating against the current DNC establishment is a necessary step to take to stopping the rachet and pinion mechanism. As long as people like chuck schumer exist in the party you can't be serious about change while advocating to "vote blue no matter who" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) I never even mentioned the DNC or "vote blue" bullshit. You seem to be eager to argue with someone who has opinions different than mine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago* (1 child) well yes, I was arguing what HazardousBanjo said. I am on voyager. My initial comment to their parent comment is below yours and the comment from luthis, but not in reply to you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago Then you need to figure out how to use voyager correctly and reply to the correct user because none of this is showing up in HazardousBanjo's inbox. Its showing up in mine. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (3 children) because advocating against the current DNC establishment is a necessary step to take to stopping the rachet and pinion mechanism. As long as people like chuck schumer exist in the party you can't be serious about change while advocating to "vote blue no matter who" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) I never even mentioned the DNC or "vote blue" bullshit. You seem to be eager to argue with someone who has opinions different than mine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago* (1 child) well yes, I was arguing what HazardousBanjo said. I am on voyager. My initial comment to their parent comment is below yours and the comment from luthis, but not in reply to you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago Then you need to figure out how to use voyager correctly and reply to the correct user because none of this is showing up in HazardousBanjo's inbox. Its showing up in mine. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) I never even mentioned the DNC or "vote blue" bullshit. You seem to be eager to argue with someone who has opinions different than mine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago* (1 child) well yes, I was arguing what HazardousBanjo said. I am on voyager. My initial comment to their parent comment is below yours and the comment from luthis, but not in reply to you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago Then you need to figure out how to use voyager correctly and reply to the correct user because none of this is showing up in HazardousBanjo's inbox. Its showing up in mine. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago* (1 child) well yes, I was arguing what HazardousBanjo said. I am on voyager. My initial comment to their parent comment is below yours and the comment from luthis, but not in reply to you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago Then you need to figure out how to use voyager correctly and reply to the correct user because none of this is showing up in HazardousBanjo's inbox. Its showing up in mine. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sudo@programming.dev 1 point 9 months ago Then you need to figure out how to use voyager correctly and reply to the correct user because none of this is showing up in HazardousBanjo's inbox. Its showing up in mine. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 7 points 9 months ago (3 children) I'd say they're skeptical that Mamdani will keep to his promises or that electing him isn't enough. But dislike? I bet every one would've voted for him. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 24 points 9 months ago Assuming they vote at all and don't think the best way to show your dissatisfaction is to stay home and complain on the Internet permalink fedilink source parent [–] Serinus@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) They can't vote. They're either not American or they're bots. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 9 points 9 months ago I believe enough of them are American and Lemmy is a dumb place to create a bot army. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 24 points 9 months ago Assuming they vote at all and don't think the best way to show your dissatisfaction is to stay home and complain on the Internet permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) They can't vote. They're either not American or they're bots. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 9 points 9 months ago I believe enough of them are American and Lemmy is a dumb place to create a bot army. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 9 points 9 months ago I believe enough of them are American and Lemmy is a dumb place to create a bot army. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] boolean_sledgehammer@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago Tankies don't like objective reality. permalink fedilink source parent