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Cyberpunk 2077 VR Modder Hit by Another DMCA Strike, Pauses Patreon, Pulls Access to All His Mods, and Declares He's 'Under Attack' (www.ign.com)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/pcgaming@lemmy.ca
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Looks like the Ghostrunner developers also have an issue with paid mods running off their IP.

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[–] -4 points 9 months ago (36 children)

Sim racing is full of paid mods, and it's working out fine. We acknowledge when someone puts effort into development, probably because majority of sim racers aren't teens and have worked jobs.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago* (31 children)

    If a mod marketplace works for some games, that’s cool, but I think CDPR has the right to not approve of that model when it comes to their IP. An open source model benefits everyone and can also be viable for mod developers :)

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  • [+] -12 points 9 months ago (29 children)

    If someone puts their own free time and effort to make a mod, they should be allowed to sell it. If you want to spend your free time copying that mod, please do.

    You're not entitled to free labor, because you feel like it. It's a game mod, it's not a life necessity, playing games with out mods works as well. You are telling me that people that pay several hundred dollars for a VR headset can't afford to give someone 10-20$ for their work.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    If you want to make money for your effort, Dev a game. The idea that you should be able to piggyback off the work of another dev team and profit from it is BS. It's like saying you should be allowed to walk into Starbucks and start selling custom mugs to their active customers; no way they would allow that

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  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago

    Why? If I'm a mechanic and upgrade a car that someone else made you wouldn't care at all. I've always thought it was crazy that people act so entitled to software being free.

    Hell cyberpunk itself wouldn't exist if it weren't for decades of work by Windows and console devs. Everything is built on top of someone else's work so I don't buy that as a reason for modders to go uncompensated.

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    You people live in a fantasy world, how the does one who can't make a game make a game. That's a lot of work, what is the issue with piggybacking from another ones work if it benefits both parties.

    Give me a scenario where it hurts the original developers, a real scenario.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    I don't really care about the developers tbh, what I care about is the community, and paid mods hurt the community. Well-received mods have always been thanked by donations, and there's nothing stopping that system from continuing today, but the idea of monetizing the community sandbox is toxic and should be wholly rejected.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    In what way was it good for the community when they removed the mods that you had to pay for? It's not like the developers of the mods will do it for free, and no is stopping you from making a free version of said mods.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    If they won't do it for the love of the game, then they aren't part of the community.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    How is wanting to get paid and loving the game mutual exclusive. They are more part of the community than 99% of the community, you make it sound like it's easy, they have invested their own time and skills to make mods that people are willing to pay for.

    Stop being so judgemental, you don't know them or why they are developing mods. Maybe they want to make a living or extra money by working on something they like. You don't have to buy the mods they develop if you don't like paying for mods or if it goes against your own principals. They aren't trying to force you to buy their mods. I myself never play games with mods, because it's a hassle and doesn't make my gaming experience any better.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Maybe they want to make a living or extra money by working on something they like.

    Exactly the problem. I don't want my hobby spaces to be filled with entrepreneurs looking for a revenue stream, I want them filled with people who love the hobby enough to sacrifice for it. And when those spaces do get filled with money-makers, it pushes the people with the actual passion out because they aren't interested in competing in another fucking competitive capitalist space.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    You want everyone else to make sacrifices but not you, you just want shit for free. What competition exists in the modding community? No one is stopping you from or anyone else from making a VR mod for cyberpunk for free. Surely it would be more popular than the paid version, but why doesn't it exist? Because it requires maintenance and active development and knowledge about how VR works, and no one is interested in spending that time making a free VR mod for cyberpunk, you would have to be an autists to feel it's time worth spending.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (5 children)

    If you can't see how paid mods have already enormously increased toxicity in the modding scene, you're either blind or ignorant. And people will always make things they love for free. Graffiti will always exist. There's no reason to pretend art will only exist for the profit motive, or that it is better for it.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Yes and so what, toxicity exists in any community you goof, I don't know what your point is. That paying for stuff is bad, or asking to be paid for your work is bad, or wanting money is bad.

    You lack empathy towards people who make mods, what if it's their only source of income, what if they spend a lot of time making the mod as good as possible so you will want to pay for it. Jesus Christ you're some kind of idealist there's no grayzone everything is the extreme with you

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    If they want an income source they should find a job.

    Sometimes are sacred, and the community sandbox should never become a sales floor.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Dude you are exhausting, you live in a fantasy world.

    Unlike you people try to find work they enjoy, either you haven't worked a day in your life, or you are jealous of people having a better job than you.

    You can't even fathom that some people are not employable, there's 1000s of reasons why some people can't hold a regular job or find a employer that will employ them. But hey, fuck them right

    You don't own or get to decide what people can sell or not, your talking about some fucking community that is filled with shit as is, and I would bet my life on that you don't even contribute to said community that you hold so dear. You're just a leech, prove me wrong.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I have no interest in "proving" anything to you, but I have contributed to the scene for literal decades in both my talents and funding.

    There are a hundred other revenue streams that don't require turning the sandbox into a sales floor. Go do one of those. Or don't, just don't assume that we're all going to be okay with it.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    You're also not entitled to modify (which is what mod is short for) someone else's work and sell it. If they allow you to then great, go for it if you want. However, you don't get to complain when they say no. They can still ask for donations, which is what most modders do.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago*

    The argument for these VR mods not running afoul of copyright law as it currently exists is that they're more like an emulator that supports a significant number of games and don't really modify the game itself at all. Obviously game companies tend to hate emulators too and have even tried to go after them so you probably can't trust their judgement on this.

    You could even draw parallels here to something like Google's recently announced autospatialization feature of Android XR that will make it possible to play any game (in theory, in practice some games will probably work better than others) with 3D visuals. Google certainly isn't offering that for free since it only works on an Android device that they get paid for because it is using their software.

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  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    You should be, what's the difference between selling modification to other things that people do all the time. Cars, instruments, music, phones, software and 5 million other things.

    They are not selling their work, they are selling their own work, they are not selling the game with the mod, their are selling a mod to the game.

    It's just that gaming companies are dickheads and want to have exclusive rights to having a market around their products.

    Of course you get to complain, why shouldn't you complain if you don't like something and think it's unfair. Wether it's legitimate or not you should complain, then if someone listens or not thats another question.

    You don't have to buy mods, dude there are plenty of mods that are free, but if someone wants to sell it why not. The only thing that will happen is that you will have more quality mods, paid or free. Then there's the question if you have exclusive rights to a mod, I would say no, anyone should be able to copy your mod.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    The difference is the game developers have put in extra work in order to make their games easily moddable. Your car didn't. Developers don't have to add mod support, but then it usually becomes incredibly difficult to modify.

    They put extra effort in to allow people to create stuff using their game. It's like using any other software as a tool; you need to follow their rules for using it. This could mean paying a licensing fee, or it could mean making it open source, or whatever else they may decide. You're using their tools, so their rules have to be followed.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    What are you talking about, have you ever heard of after market products. There's a reason why certain industries design there products to allow third party vendors to sell after market components, it makes them more popular by consumers.

    Dude you are just making shit up as you go, what you are saying makes no sense.

    I extend functionality of existing software products for B2B as a living, no one would buy their products if they didn't allow them to be extended.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Let's take your assumption to the end result; the developer has no control over mod distribution. Let's make up a hypothetical (which has happened before) where someone is distributing malware with their mod. Does the developer have no authority to take it down?

    Mods, whether you like it or not, do reflect back on the developer. If there's a scandal of bad behavior, it'll effect their sales. Also, if payed mods become the standard it'll effect their sales, as people will be less likely to deal with modding. I have no issue with mod developers making money from their product, but they must also recognize that it's with the support of the developers of the game. If they decide to remove your mod they can, in many ways.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    What kind of argument is this, spreading malware is illegal. And how does that reflect on the game studio; none at all. The mod you are proposing is illegal, no you are not allowed to spread malware via mods, what do you want me to say?

    For arguments sake spreading malware via mods is legal, does it reflect bad on the game studio? No, not if you are older than 10 dude, if you don't know the difference between original content and user made content, you will probably have a hard time installing a mod.

    If I spread malware via images of La Lakers, does that reflect bad on LA Lakers.

    You do realize that cd projekt red are doing a DMCA request, because it's a logical economical choice for them, and has nothing to do with the quality of work. Because the mod is only enabling people to play with VR. And CD project red has the benefit either A modder gives it out for free, CD project red gets free content, B they can after a while release their own paid version of Cyberpunk with VR (like 50 other game titles).

    There's no legal basis for the DMCA, the guy says he can't afford a legal battle with a huge company.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    No one's saying they're entitled to free labour. But you can't make money off somebody else's work, that's not fair to them, not if they haven't already given agreement.

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  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago

    In what way is it not fair? The game developer has full control over the game and the API it allows modders to use to make mods.

    Is it that you are taking the money from the developers? Because you still need to buy the game, if anything the modding community makes the game more attractive to buy.

    So what is the unfairness in the case of a modder wants to sell his mods?

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  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    How is it not fair? Cyberpunk is the platform for their mod just like Windows or PlayStation is the platform for Cyberpunk. Everything we do is built on someone else's work.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    PlayStation is not a platform that you build on top of it's the operating system runs the game it's a totally different concept.

    You don't modify the operating system to make the game you make the game in such a way that the operating system can understand but you create your own code. Modine is literally modifying somebody else's code.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    there's really no difference, a mod doesn't necessarily mean modifying the game's code or assets either, it can be just adding or replacing things with your own code and assets. The game functioning relies just as much on the operating system and the libraries it provides as such a mod does on the game.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Sim games are sorta their own beast when it comes to mods.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    Oh really? Why can't other games be the same beast when it comes to mods? Does the VR mod take sales away from CDPR?

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    In sim games you usually get the game and then get a vehicle you want to specialize in. You may put hundreds or thousands of hours into that vehicle and you know the ins and outs.

    Mod development wise you may have to model the vehicle from the ground up. The vehicle has to have functioning gauges, be tuned to handle and behave like the vehicle in real life, fail like the real thing and basically BE the real thing. Take DCS for example. The game itself is actually free but the modules are paid. The detailed modules can go for around $70 or so dollars like the F16. You can use the real life flight manual for the F16 to learn how to use it in game. Train sims are similar. If you are real particular about a specific train you can find the module for it and expect probably pretty damn good detail down to nameplates and specifications

    You arent going to get that sort of involvement in a game like Skyrim, Fallout, or Cyberpunk. You could maybe go down to that level of detail but that level of detail may not be able to be appreciated in a game that doesent simulate things like aerodynamics or how tire grip changes depending on temperature.

    Mods are and should be a passion project. The moment you implement mods as income stream people and companies are going to exploit the shit out of it. See: Roblox, Skyrim, etc

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  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago*

    In games you usually get the game and then get a mod that you want to play. You may put hundreds or thousands of hours into that mod.

    Mod development wise you may have to create models from the ground up. A mod has to have functioning logic, be fit to the game but modify it in a significant way, feel like a change to the game.

    You are seriously trying to say that a VR mod doesn't take effort to build?

    You can use the real life flight manual for the F16 to learn how to use it in game. If you are real particular about a specific train you can find the module for it and expect probably pretty damn good detail down to nameplates and specifications

    Irrelevant. The only relevant thing regarding the quality-price consideration is whether a player is ready to pay for a particular mod.

    The moment you implement mods as income stream people and companies are going to exploit the shit out of it. See: Roblox, Skyrim, etc

    Arbitrary nothingburger claims. You just described how paid mods work in sims, so why don't people ‘exploit the shit’ out of mods in sims?

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