▲ 822 ▼ History will not be kind to the USA (crazypeople.online) submitted 10 months ago by hamid@crazypeople.online to c/memes@lemmy.ml 207 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -5 points 10 months ago (18 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments replies: [–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 23 points 10 months ago Simply trying to compare kill counts like history is call of duty only serves to dehumanize the victims. In my view, just one aspect of the U.S. makes it the worst country ever: its role in the ecological crisis. The us is like three corporations in a trench coat, and a us corporation knew about anthropogenic climate change and kept that internal, and that's just one instance of fuckery where there are plenty more. That's the international elephant in the room which nobody seems willing to talk about. We need to also consider all the future atrocities as well as those in the past. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago A huge amount of deaths are directly caused by US sanctions in numerous countries. You should count those permalink fedilink source parent [+] hamid@crazypeople.online [S] 36 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (6 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Grapho@lemmy.ml 29 points 10 months ago They also partook in widespread ecocide to starve the natives. They deliberately killed every buffalo they could and let them out to rot. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 18 points 10 months ago Gosh, I guess we should talk about the British then as well. https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians permalink fedilink source parent [+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -16 points 10 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed. Germany didn't write the holocaust out of their history like Americans did. To mock the line I keep seeing in this thread full of apologists: Nazi Germany wasn't quite there yet. They would have been as bad as the US if they had time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -2 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago* Nazi Germany literally modeled their society off of the United States from Jim Crow apartheid to the frontier genocide. You're wrong. It's not a contest. If they had been allowed to 'let things that happened a hundred years ago fade away' like they were planning THEN it would be a contest because they would have succeeded in creating a European America. The project of Nazi Germany is literally the same project as Israel is literally the same project as America It is exactly one thing: Settler colonialism and the only difference is the conditions of when and where and who. But that only goes as far as the particulars. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 18 points 10 months ago (1 child) The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed. Disgusting take, acting as if genocide was not colonial policy. You desperately need to read Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - an indigenous people's history of the US. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago Thanks for the recommendation comrade, I'll add it to my list permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 22 points 10 months ago* (6 children) Broad estimates of US war victims range up to 12 million (a liberal estimate), whereas the Nazis killed over 13 million through mass killings alone (eg the Holocaust + exterminated minorities). The Soviet Union alone lost 20 to 27 million depending on who you ask. In addition to the 500k-millions of native peoples and hundreds of tribes the US systematically nearly eradicated, lets take just a few more examples. Vietnam: 1.5M killed Laos: 300k Iraq: 1M Indonesia: 500k-1M Korea: 500k Japan: 200k-1M in civilian bombings And I haven't even started on operation condor and latin america yet. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Iceblade02@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 child) The real tragedy is that of the victims who got stuck in the middle between two doctrines hell-bent on global domination. The case of Imperial Japan is equivalent to that of Nazi Germany. A fascist regime that saw millions intentionally slaughtered and worked to death across Asia. Here are some links for reading more about the killings related to: Imperial Japan North Vietnam & the Vietnam War North Korea & the Korean War permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 10 points 10 months ago This popped up in my feed today: permalink fedilink source parent [+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -9 points 10 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago Sounds like they are in good company, millions is millions, but I'd argue America has committed more genocides. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago (2 children) I hope you take a moment and reflect on why you insist on approaching comparative history in this way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 1 point 10 months ago (1 child) Maybe it's because this is a comment thread about comparative history being performed in the same manner? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago The post does not go into kill counts as a direct comparison. It simply states that the us will be remembered as worse than nazi germany. So no, that is not the reason. I'm calling out your behavior specifically as problematic. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com 20 points 10 months ago (2 children) Even if you take the most extreme interpretation of US responsibility possible (eg adding another 1-1.7 million people for "luring" the Soviet Union into attacking Afghanistan), you don't get to 25 million Bullshit. One single US (+EU) policy, economic sanctions, has murdered 38 million in the past 50 Years and keeps murdering 500k yearly. One single policy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] khannie@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago Yeah nazi Germany was around for 13 years ish. I'm not saying there's no comparison, I'm just saying there's no comparison, yet. permalink fedilink source parent [+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -7 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago According to you, is there Apartheid in Venezuela? Hell, the US and Israel tried to keep the regime in South Africa going for as long as they could, so it doesn't even make much sense. Not only that, but sanctions STILL cause the deaths of over 500k people a year. People like you and me. Stop defending imperialism and mass death. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 23 points 10 months ago Simply trying to compare kill counts like history is call of duty only serves to dehumanize the victims. In my view, just one aspect of the U.S. makes it the worst country ever: its role in the ecological crisis. The us is like three corporations in a trench coat, and a us corporation knew about anthropogenic climate change and kept that internal, and that's just one instance of fuckery where there are plenty more. That's the international elephant in the room which nobody seems willing to talk about. We need to also consider all the future atrocities as well as those in the past. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago A huge amount of deaths are directly caused by US sanctions in numerous countries. You should count those permalink fedilink source parent
[+] hamid@crazypeople.online [S] 36 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (6 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Grapho@lemmy.ml 29 points 10 months ago They also partook in widespread ecocide to starve the natives. They deliberately killed every buffalo they could and let them out to rot. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 18 points 10 months ago Gosh, I guess we should talk about the British then as well. https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians permalink fedilink source parent [+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -16 points 10 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed. Germany didn't write the holocaust out of their history like Americans did. To mock the line I keep seeing in this thread full of apologists: Nazi Germany wasn't quite there yet. They would have been as bad as the US if they had time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -2 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago* Nazi Germany literally modeled their society off of the United States from Jim Crow apartheid to the frontier genocide. You're wrong. It's not a contest. If they had been allowed to 'let things that happened a hundred years ago fade away' like they were planning THEN it would be a contest because they would have succeeded in creating a European America. The project of Nazi Germany is literally the same project as Israel is literally the same project as America It is exactly one thing: Settler colonialism and the only difference is the conditions of when and where and who. But that only goes as far as the particulars. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 18 points 10 months ago (1 child) The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed. Disgusting take, acting as if genocide was not colonial policy. You desperately need to read Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - an indigenous people's history of the US. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago Thanks for the recommendation comrade, I'll add it to my list permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] Grapho@lemmy.ml 29 points 10 months ago They also partook in widespread ecocide to starve the natives. They deliberately killed every buffalo they could and let them out to rot. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 18 points 10 months ago Gosh, I guess we should talk about the British then as well. https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -16 points 10 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed. Germany didn't write the holocaust out of their history like Americans did. To mock the line I keep seeing in this thread full of apologists: Nazi Germany wasn't quite there yet. They would have been as bad as the US if they had time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -2 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago* Nazi Germany literally modeled their society off of the United States from Jim Crow apartheid to the frontier genocide. You're wrong. It's not a contest. If they had been allowed to 'let things that happened a hundred years ago fade away' like they were planning THEN it would be a contest because they would have succeeded in creating a European America. The project of Nazi Germany is literally the same project as Israel is literally the same project as America It is exactly one thing: Settler colonialism and the only difference is the conditions of when and where and who. But that only goes as far as the particulars. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 18 points 10 months ago (1 child) The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed. Disgusting take, acting as if genocide was not colonial policy. You desperately need to read Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - an indigenous people's history of the US. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago Thanks for the recommendation comrade, I'll add it to my list permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed. Germany didn't write the holocaust out of their history like Americans did. To mock the line I keep seeing in this thread full of apologists: Nazi Germany wasn't quite there yet. They would have been as bad as the US if they had time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -2 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago* Nazi Germany literally modeled their society off of the United States from Jim Crow apartheid to the frontier genocide. You're wrong. It's not a contest. If they had been allowed to 'let things that happened a hundred years ago fade away' like they were planning THEN it would be a contest because they would have succeeded in creating a European America. The project of Nazi Germany is literally the same project as Israel is literally the same project as America It is exactly one thing: Settler colonialism and the only difference is the conditions of when and where and who. But that only goes as far as the particulars. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -2 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago* Nazi Germany literally modeled their society off of the United States from Jim Crow apartheid to the frontier genocide. You're wrong. It's not a contest. If they had been allowed to 'let things that happened a hundred years ago fade away' like they were planning THEN it would be a contest because they would have succeeded in creating a European America. The project of Nazi Germany is literally the same project as Israel is literally the same project as America It is exactly one thing: Settler colonialism and the only difference is the conditions of when and where and who. But that only goes as far as the particulars. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago* Nazi Germany literally modeled their society off of the United States from Jim Crow apartheid to the frontier genocide. You're wrong. It's not a contest. If they had been allowed to 'let things that happened a hundred years ago fade away' like they were planning THEN it would be a contest because they would have succeeded in creating a European America. The project of Nazi Germany is literally the same project as Israel is literally the same project as America It is exactly one thing: Settler colonialism and the only difference is the conditions of when and where and who. But that only goes as far as the particulars. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 18 points 10 months ago (1 child) The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed. Disgusting take, acting as if genocide was not colonial policy. You desperately need to read Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - an indigenous people's history of the US. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago Thanks for the recommendation comrade, I'll add it to my list permalink fedilink source parent
[–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago Thanks for the recommendation comrade, I'll add it to my list permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 22 points 10 months ago* (6 children) Broad estimates of US war victims range up to 12 million (a liberal estimate), whereas the Nazis killed over 13 million through mass killings alone (eg the Holocaust + exterminated minorities). The Soviet Union alone lost 20 to 27 million depending on who you ask. In addition to the 500k-millions of native peoples and hundreds of tribes the US systematically nearly eradicated, lets take just a few more examples. Vietnam: 1.5M killed Laos: 300k Iraq: 1M Indonesia: 500k-1M Korea: 500k Japan: 200k-1M in civilian bombings And I haven't even started on operation condor and latin america yet. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Iceblade02@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 child) The real tragedy is that of the victims who got stuck in the middle between two doctrines hell-bent on global domination. The case of Imperial Japan is equivalent to that of Nazi Germany. A fascist regime that saw millions intentionally slaughtered and worked to death across Asia. Here are some links for reading more about the killings related to: Imperial Japan North Vietnam & the Vietnam War North Korea & the Korean War permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 10 points 10 months ago This popped up in my feed today: permalink fedilink source parent [+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -9 points 10 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago Sounds like they are in good company, millions is millions, but I'd argue America has committed more genocides. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago (2 children) I hope you take a moment and reflect on why you insist on approaching comparative history in this way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 1 point 10 months ago (1 child) Maybe it's because this is a comment thread about comparative history being performed in the same manner? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago The post does not go into kill counts as a direct comparison. It simply states that the us will be remembered as worse than nazi germany. So no, that is not the reason. I'm calling out your behavior specifically as problematic. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] Iceblade02@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 child) The real tragedy is that of the victims who got stuck in the middle between two doctrines hell-bent on global domination. The case of Imperial Japan is equivalent to that of Nazi Germany. A fascist regime that saw millions intentionally slaughtered and worked to death across Asia. Here are some links for reading more about the killings related to: Imperial Japan North Vietnam & the Vietnam War North Korea & the Korean War permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 10 points 10 months ago This popped up in my feed today: permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 10 points 10 months ago This popped up in my feed today: permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -9 points 10 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago Sounds like they are in good company, millions is millions, but I'd argue America has committed more genocides. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago (2 children) I hope you take a moment and reflect on why you insist on approaching comparative history in this way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 1 point 10 months ago (1 child) Maybe it's because this is a comment thread about comparative history being performed in the same manner? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago The post does not go into kill counts as a direct comparison. It simply states that the us will be remembered as worse than nazi germany. So no, that is not the reason. I'm calling out your behavior specifically as problematic. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago Sounds like they are in good company, millions is millions, but I'd argue America has committed more genocides. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago (2 children) I hope you take a moment and reflect on why you insist on approaching comparative history in this way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 1 point 10 months ago (1 child) Maybe it's because this is a comment thread about comparative history being performed in the same manner? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago The post does not go into kill counts as a direct comparison. It simply states that the us will be remembered as worse than nazi germany. So no, that is not the reason. I'm calling out your behavior specifically as problematic. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 1 point 10 months ago (1 child) Maybe it's because this is a comment thread about comparative history being performed in the same manner? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago The post does not go into kill counts as a direct comparison. It simply states that the us will be remembered as worse than nazi germany. So no, that is not the reason. I'm calling out your behavior specifically as problematic. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago The post does not go into kill counts as a direct comparison. It simply states that the us will be remembered as worse than nazi germany. So no, that is not the reason. I'm calling out your behavior specifically as problematic. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com 20 points 10 months ago (2 children) Even if you take the most extreme interpretation of US responsibility possible (eg adding another 1-1.7 million people for "luring" the Soviet Union into attacking Afghanistan), you don't get to 25 million Bullshit. One single US (+EU) policy, economic sanctions, has murdered 38 million in the past 50 Years and keeps murdering 500k yearly. One single policy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] khannie@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago Yeah nazi Germany was around for 13 years ish. I'm not saying there's no comparison, I'm just saying there's no comparison, yet. permalink fedilink source parent [+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -7 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago According to you, is there Apartheid in Venezuela? Hell, the US and Israel tried to keep the regime in South Africa going for as long as they could, so it doesn't even make much sense. Not only that, but sanctions STILL cause the deaths of over 500k people a year. People like you and me. Stop defending imperialism and mass death. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] khannie@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago Yeah nazi Germany was around for 13 years ish. I'm not saying there's no comparison, I'm just saying there's no comparison, yet. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev -7 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago According to you, is there Apartheid in Venezuela? Hell, the US and Israel tried to keep the regime in South Africa going for as long as they could, so it doesn't even make much sense. Not only that, but sanctions STILL cause the deaths of over 500k people a year. People like you and me. Stop defending imperialism and mass death. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago According to you, is there Apartheid in Venezuela? Hell, the US and Israel tried to keep the regime in South Africa going for as long as they could, so it doesn't even make much sense. Not only that, but sanctions STILL cause the deaths of over 500k people a year. People like you and me. Stop defending imperialism and mass death. permalink fedilink source parent