▲ 315 ▼ Noam Chomsky (crazypeople.online) submitted 10 months ago by hamid@crazypeople.online to c/memes@lemmy.ml 78 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 73 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (63 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source hideshow 63 child comments replies: [+] hamid@crazypeople.online [S] 64 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (9 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 10 months ago (8 children) Hawkins? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] hamid@crazypeople.online [S] 21 points 10 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 10 months ago I do not care to delve into the personal life of all scientists, particularly physicists, who rarely opine on human nature. Hawking's contributions to astrophysics and quantum physics are unrelated to his associations with shitty humans. In that arena, however, I do prefer Leonard Susskind over Hawking, in that Hawking's fucking ego would not let him consider other positions related to certain topics. (In short, yes, he was a douche bag). There's an excellent book by Susskind called the Black Hole Wars about how he was right and Hawking was a dick when it came to how black holes consume objects and the data therein. Hawking eventually conceded to Susskind reluctantly after a few decades. permalink fedilink source parent [–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 6 points 10 months ago (5 children) I think they meant Minsky. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 months ago (4 children) Minsky? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Association_with_Jeffrey_Epstein permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 46 points 10 months ago (2 children) His net worth is <$2M. At that point in his career, Chomsky was getting invited everywhere because he was branded "the top intellectual in the world". People would see him speak and not understand a damned word he said. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bobzer@lemmy.zip 8 points 10 months ago People would see him speak and not understand a damned word he said. It's not like Chomsky understood anything he was saying outside of linguistics. permalink fedilink source parent [–] markovs_gun@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago $2m is nothing to someone like Epstein. The private jet they're flying in cost $61m, for example permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 15 points 10 months ago* The Mainstream and the Margins: Noam Chomsky vs. Michael Parenti 📺 The Imperial Theory Industry w/ Gabriel Rockhill permalink fedilink source parent [–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 14 points 10 months ago It got him celebrity. That opens doors in ways money doesn't. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Juice@midwest.social 38 points 10 months ago (13 children) Epstein collected intellectuals. He bought whole science departments at MIT, and kept a brothel of soft intellectuals like Malcolm Gladwell (imo definitely participated in some extra curriculars with Epstein), Richard Dawkins, Stephen Pinker (whom JE voted off the island (heh) because he wouldn't corroborate JE's eugenicism) and many others. Norm (I call him Norm now) Chomsky is a guy who will just like answer any emails that come to him. He's not difficult to get a response from. I think Epstein was good at handling intellectuals, and had a lot to offer researchers like Chomsky who wanted to know how to follow the money, and where the bodies were buried. Epstein's connections and insider knowledge to the CIA, Mossad, and Les Wexner are all legitimate enough reasons to spend time talking with him. This isnt to shift blame or culpability away from Chomsky, just to say that Epstein and associates had developed a concrete basis for power and influence among intellectuals. It wasnt just taking advantage of underage young women for personal pleasure, but all rivers seem to run into that sea. To me though it really illustrates how Chomsky was really an ivory-tower elitist. If there was ever proof that left wing ideas only matter when they lead to taking effective action in the struggle for liberation, then Chomsky's unrepentant associations with Epstein are a shining example. As if many of his "left wing" positions weren't already problematic enough, he made sure to put on full display whom is the real subject of his work, and it isnt the toiling and exploited classes. I have some ideological differences with him, but thankfully we don't need to worry about that. His actions speak to the actual nature of his ideas, so we need only gesture toward this photo as proof of how he demolished his own legacy, and how he doesnt deserve a place among those who actually struggle to educate people about the truth of our conditions. May his work be forgotten. What a sad, pathetic man. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (10 children) Beyond this seemingly damning image, what other evidence is there of Chomsky’s participation in miscreance and deviant behavior? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago (9 children) Well, as a leftists I think its just extra disappointing. Like I'm not a syndicalist or anarchist, he wasnt my guy, but he was a left voice. He was critical of imperialism and shined a light on corruption and injustice. Like when Chris Tucker appeared in flight logs its like, "oh the comedian? Weird," and maybe if I was a comedian I'd feel different. But CT also denied any actual associations. Chomsky's just like "yeah he's my friend, its none of your business" honesty is a virtue and all that, but the way he has attacked and criticized other leftists over the years, to see him defend this literal avatar of abuse, corruption and imperialism, is quite revealing. But my personal orientation toward Norm hasn't changed much. I had read a couple of his books but he's kind of meh imo. Obviously a very hard working and prolific academic, though academics can be disappointing from a leftist perspective. I doubt he had much time or interest to engage in the kinds of abuse that made Epstein notorious. I think Norm knew about the abuse and corruption, and definitely about his role in geopolitics. And maybe Epstein helped him out once personally in a way that deeply affected him. People are complicated, and Chomsky's loyalty is maybe admirable, though such circumstances are speculation. But if I found out my best friend was hanging out with Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz, as well as a cavalcade of notorious villains and literal monsters, that he had created a global network of underaged women who he exploited for sex 3 or more times per day, literally anything that we've found out about JE, I would cut them off immediately. And if I found out a different friend was hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein and was unrepentant, I'd cut them off too. That's all I need. The association is bad enough that I dont need further evidence, personally. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (6 children) Is there a link to Chomsky commenting on any of this? I’m simply stunned. And I know the monster Epstein collected public figures and I agree that being collected by him is damning. But I’d still like to hear what Chomsky has to say about the image. Like… anything? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (5 children) Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Heres the business insider article from 2023 https://www.businessinsider.com/noam-chomsky-mit-wsj-wall-street-journal-jeffrey-epstein-2023-4 And then you have the latest revelations https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/22/noam-chomsky-jeffrey-epstein-ties-emails Chomsky, 96, had also reportedly acknowledged receiving about $270,000 from an account linked to Epstein while sorting the disbursement of common funds relating to the first of his two marriages, though the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professor has insisted not “one penny” came directly from the infamous financier. The banality of evil: how Epstein’s powerful friends normalised him Read more The emails disclosed on 12 November by the Republican members of the US House oversight committee generally detailed the correspondence Epstein had with political, academic and business luminaries, including the Bill Clinton White House’s treasury secretary Larry Summers and Steve Bannon, the longtime ally of Donald Trump. Further, they reveal Epstein and Chomsky were close enough to discuss musical interests and even potential vacations. Perhaps the most telling of the Chomsky-related documents in question was a letter of support for Epstein attributed to Chomsky with the salutation “to whom it may concern”. It is not dated, but it contains a typed signature with Chomsky’s name and citing his position as a University of Arizona laureate professor, a role he began in 2017, as first reported by the Massachusetts news outlet WBUR. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (3 children) My day is just wrecked. Chomsky was the last person I believed in. I don’t believe he diddled… but his descriptions of hanging out with Epstein turn my stomach. Happy Christmas Eve. :-) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (2 children) We dont need them we need each other permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 child) We surely need people that care about truth and justice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago I care! And I assume you do too. We dont need Chomsky for that permalink fedilink source parent [–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Did you maybe forget to paste the link for this? I'm assuming it's probably this one, but if there's another I'd like to see it. In this one, Chomsky first defends Epstein (and his own relationship with Epstein) by citing how it's a foundational tenant of western law that a person who has "served their sentence" is then absolved or "the same as everybody else" as Chomsky puts it. Which is amusing in itself coming from someone who supposedly is such a critic of how asymmetrically that law punishes the weak and powerless vs the rich and powerful. He then does an actual whataboutism by basically saying "well David Koch was even worse, and he also gave money to MIT where I worked. Did anybody say anything about that?" Ok then, Noam, would you go have brunch with Koch on his private jet too, or are you saying that's where you draw the line? I wish the interviewer, who was obviously dissatisfied with his answers had been less deferential to Chomsky. But if I found out my best friend was hanging out with Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz, as well as a cavalcade of notorious villains and literal monsters I was surprised to learn how close Epstein and Steve Bannon were. Not at all surprised by the connection, but if you read the ongoing conversations they had, they were like a couple of teens gossiping with each other over the phone every night. I do wonder exactly how aware he was that his good buddy Epstein was besties with, as you said, notorious villians and literal monsters (like would Chomsky still be ok if Epstein had been good friends with David Koch for example?), but I doubt Chomsky was as in the dark about it as his fans would like to think. He was aware that Epstein had at least in the past, if not currently was outright human-trafficking children for SA on his private island, but apparently he did his time, and that makes him "the same as everybody else." It really is an illuminating example of how interconnected so many of the so-called elite really are, even those whose public personas would make us think they could be nothing but bitter enemies. My personal vibes-based belief is that it's a soft form of class solidarity. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 10 months ago (1 child) I just assume anyone I see on TV or in the mainstream, is an intelligence agent. You never see a single person on TV that isnt completely insane. The first time I heard that guy speak, I knew he was a spook. They would never allow someone who wasn't a spook to speak about politics or war or whatever on the news media. There were some good journalists, but I'm not even sure if there is a single place in the world that an actual journalist could be safe. These days it's usually the cops going after journalists and stuff on Trumped up charges like we are living in Russia or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago It reminds me of this old Chomsky video https://m.youtube.com/shorts/AnFUWrjr25A "I'm sure you believe what you are saying but if you believed something different you wouldnt be sitting here." Really calling the kettle on this permalink fedilink source parent [–] dorkofeverything@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago (1 child) Do you think Dawkins is culpable for anything? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago Other than being a fuckin loser? I haven't heard of any deep associations between JE and Dawkins. I have to go back to check what Gladwell's associations were as it has been a while since I heard about their connection. It's possible that I'm over stating his connection because I really don't like his dumb books and he looks like such a fucking creep permalink fedilink source parent [–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago Epstein was a major bundler and influencer in the liberal establishment, specifically within the US East Coast and the EU West Coast regions. Chompsky was also in this circle of influential political and media figures. Its not crazy that they'd run into each other any more than Epstein hobnobbing with any other Ivy League professors or national media figures or British Royals. did the book sales for manufacturing consent get him that fucking rich? More that knowing a guy like Epstein is what gets you regularly syndicated in news columns and invited as a guest onto TV shows. You could say the same about Larry Summers or Steven Pinker. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 12 points 10 months ago I think there are simpler explanations for Clinton and Gates' presence. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago LOL the lib mental gymnastics permalink fedilink source parent [–] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (1 child) Very good question indeed. Sadly, it doesn't help that Chomsky keeps avoiding answering this and other related questions. As someone so vocal about serious crimes going unpunished, I'd imagine he'd just openly say what's going on. If he's so adamant about staying silent, it only adds more doubt and further questions. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Jtotheb@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago I think Chomsky is still nonverbal from his 2023 stroke. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 23 points 10 months ago (4 children) If you look at his emails with Epstein, it's literally Epstein asking him about his academic work, Epstein toying with various little theories and asking Chomsky about them, etc. All above board so far. Him being on the plane is not great, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's a pedo. It opens up that possibility, but there is not proof of him doing anything wrong. Yet. I really hope he didn't do anything wrong, but it's obviously a possibility. No matter what you think about Chomsky, he's an extremely important intellectual figure and is associated with the left. Him going down would be bad for all of us - so I hope he's not a bastard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Khaliso@slrpnk.net 10 points 10 months ago* Thanks for the recommendation, will take a look at it. What I've read of Chomsky so far is often a critique of (mostly, but not exclusively) US Imperialism, so I'm curious what this person is arguing permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago True - I totally agree. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] davel@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago Regardless of the article’s nuance or criticality, Foreign Policy is a major mouthpiece of the US military-industrial complex. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 5 points 10 months ago how does he afford to get a ticket to go to epstein island? Epstein was a Mossad agent offering "honey pots" for kompromat and rule over the US/west. "You're a super interesting guy. I'm having a supermodel orgy in Bahamas with lots of other famous people. I can fly by and pick you up"... you're not doing anything wrong by saying yes. permalink fedilink source parent [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 9 points 10 months ago (19 children) Chomsky is a Zionist which publicly supports the genocidal Apartheid and is anti BDS. Most of Chomsky's criticism is correct but coincidentally applies to Chcomsky himself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 19 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago (7 children) Indeed everyone who is anti Zionist is an anti Semite. Great analysis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago (6 children) I get the sarcasm, but I think the case can be made that it's the exact opposite. Zionism is terrible for the Jews, both in the mythology and real wold consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago* (4 children) Zionism is awesome for Jews. After WW2 Jews essentially had a cultural golden ticket. They could have perpetually ridden the wave of being treated as the world's most victimized group forever. There was almost nothing worse a person could be than an anti-semite or Holocaust denier. Zionism broke that spell, and "anti-semite" has become a bad joke. 80%+ of Jews worldwide support Israel Support Israel how though? 80% certainly don't support the current government, or the settlements. Also, look how many Americans support(ed) Trump. Does that mean Trump is "awesome" for Americans, or even for his supporters? Slavery ... directly benefitted them. I disagree. There were certainly material benefits but, ultimately, I don't think anyone is better off because of slavery. America still is unable to reconcile with it's own history, and that has had some pretty obvious consequences for everyone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago* (3 children) Not at all. The Holocaust industry only took off after the 70s and mostly because intense Israeli lobbying efforts. This becomes very obvious when you see Holocaust museums supporting the modern day Holocaust in Gaza in the most twisted irony possible. There is no such thing as the "current Israeli government". Israel is a Jewish surpremacist ethnostate and has been so since its inception. It's like "supporting Nazi Germany but that Hitler guy isn't very cool". Nazi Germany didn't revolve solely around Hitler. If he didn't exist some other guy would have been be the Fuhrer. The entire industrial revolution was powered by slavery. Your logic makes no sense. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) Israel came from rich Zionist Jewish influence in Britain and the world Zionist congress, leading up to the Balfour declaration. And colonization of Palestine and organizing before the Balfour declaration. This way before the Holocaust even happened. More Russians died during the Holocaust than Jews and the vast majority of Europeans don't even know that. It certainly has nothing to do with guilt. You should really check up on your history. The industrial revolution happened because Europe had massive amounts of money to build schools and infrastructure from slavery. After that Europe exploited colonies in Africa for oil and other resources. Now that European colonization and theft is fading they are rapidly declining in wealth. Which is why they are gearing up with big weapons because exploiting the global south is the only way they know how to get ahead. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago (6 children) He is anti BDS and supports the "right of Israel to exist". That's the definition of Zionism. Like a true Liberal Zionist he does minor criticism but refuses to acknowledge that Israel shouldn't exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago And the state of Israel has a right to exist Why should a genocidal European settler-colonial state have a right to exist in West Asia? permalink fedilink source parent [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago Zionism is to argue that Jews deserve an ethnostate called Israel and it is based on Jewish surpremacism. Israel has no right to exist and should not exist. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago "Nazi Germany has its faults but it has a right to exist" - Noam Chomsky. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (3 replies) load more comments (4 replies)
[+] hamid@crazypeople.online [S] 64 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (9 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 10 months ago (8 children) Hawkins? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] hamid@crazypeople.online [S] 21 points 10 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 10 months ago I do not care to delve into the personal life of all scientists, particularly physicists, who rarely opine on human nature. Hawking's contributions to astrophysics and quantum physics are unrelated to his associations with shitty humans. In that arena, however, I do prefer Leonard Susskind over Hawking, in that Hawking's fucking ego would not let him consider other positions related to certain topics. (In short, yes, he was a douche bag). There's an excellent book by Susskind called the Black Hole Wars about how he was right and Hawking was a dick when it came to how black holes consume objects and the data therein. Hawking eventually conceded to Susskind reluctantly after a few decades. permalink fedilink source parent [–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 6 points 10 months ago (5 children) I think they meant Minsky. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 months ago (4 children) Minsky? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Association_with_Jeffrey_Epstein permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies)
[–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 10 months ago (8 children) Hawkins? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] hamid@crazypeople.online [S] 21 points 10 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 10 months ago I do not care to delve into the personal life of all scientists, particularly physicists, who rarely opine on human nature. Hawking's contributions to astrophysics and quantum physics are unrelated to his associations with shitty humans. In that arena, however, I do prefer Leonard Susskind over Hawking, in that Hawking's fucking ego would not let him consider other positions related to certain topics. (In short, yes, he was a douche bag). There's an excellent book by Susskind called the Black Hole Wars about how he was right and Hawking was a dick when it came to how black holes consume objects and the data therein. Hawking eventually conceded to Susskind reluctantly after a few decades. permalink fedilink source parent [–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 6 points 10 months ago (5 children) I think they meant Minsky. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 months ago (4 children) Minsky? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Association_with_Jeffrey_Epstein permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies)
[+] hamid@crazypeople.online [S] 21 points 10 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 10 months ago I do not care to delve into the personal life of all scientists, particularly physicists, who rarely opine on human nature. Hawking's contributions to astrophysics and quantum physics are unrelated to his associations with shitty humans. In that arena, however, I do prefer Leonard Susskind over Hawking, in that Hawking's fucking ego would not let him consider other positions related to certain topics. (In short, yes, he was a douche bag). There's an excellent book by Susskind called the Black Hole Wars about how he was right and Hawking was a dick when it came to how black holes consume objects and the data therein. Hawking eventually conceded to Susskind reluctantly after a few decades. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 10 months ago I do not care to delve into the personal life of all scientists, particularly physicists, who rarely opine on human nature. Hawking's contributions to astrophysics and quantum physics are unrelated to his associations with shitty humans. In that arena, however, I do prefer Leonard Susskind over Hawking, in that Hawking's fucking ego would not let him consider other positions related to certain topics. (In short, yes, he was a douche bag). There's an excellent book by Susskind called the Black Hole Wars about how he was right and Hawking was a dick when it came to how black holes consume objects and the data therein. Hawking eventually conceded to Susskind reluctantly after a few decades. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 6 points 10 months ago (5 children) I think they meant Minsky. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 months ago (4 children) Minsky? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Association_with_Jeffrey_Epstein permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies)
[–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 months ago (4 children) Minsky? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Association_with_Jeffrey_Epstein permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies)
[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Association_with_Jeffrey_Epstein permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 46 points 10 months ago (2 children) His net worth is <$2M. At that point in his career, Chomsky was getting invited everywhere because he was branded "the top intellectual in the world". People would see him speak and not understand a damned word he said. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bobzer@lemmy.zip 8 points 10 months ago People would see him speak and not understand a damned word he said. It's not like Chomsky understood anything he was saying outside of linguistics. permalink fedilink source parent [–] markovs_gun@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago $2m is nothing to someone like Epstein. The private jet they're flying in cost $61m, for example permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bobzer@lemmy.zip 8 points 10 months ago People would see him speak and not understand a damned word he said. It's not like Chomsky understood anything he was saying outside of linguistics. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] markovs_gun@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago $2m is nothing to someone like Epstein. The private jet they're flying in cost $61m, for example permalink fedilink source parent
[–] davel@lemmy.ml 15 points 10 months ago* The Mainstream and the Margins: Noam Chomsky vs. Michael Parenti 📺 The Imperial Theory Industry w/ Gabriel Rockhill permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 14 points 10 months ago It got him celebrity. That opens doors in ways money doesn't. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Juice@midwest.social 38 points 10 months ago (13 children) Epstein collected intellectuals. He bought whole science departments at MIT, and kept a brothel of soft intellectuals like Malcolm Gladwell (imo definitely participated in some extra curriculars with Epstein), Richard Dawkins, Stephen Pinker (whom JE voted off the island (heh) because he wouldn't corroborate JE's eugenicism) and many others. Norm (I call him Norm now) Chomsky is a guy who will just like answer any emails that come to him. He's not difficult to get a response from. I think Epstein was good at handling intellectuals, and had a lot to offer researchers like Chomsky who wanted to know how to follow the money, and where the bodies were buried. Epstein's connections and insider knowledge to the CIA, Mossad, and Les Wexner are all legitimate enough reasons to spend time talking with him. This isnt to shift blame or culpability away from Chomsky, just to say that Epstein and associates had developed a concrete basis for power and influence among intellectuals. It wasnt just taking advantage of underage young women for personal pleasure, but all rivers seem to run into that sea. To me though it really illustrates how Chomsky was really an ivory-tower elitist. If there was ever proof that left wing ideas only matter when they lead to taking effective action in the struggle for liberation, then Chomsky's unrepentant associations with Epstein are a shining example. As if many of his "left wing" positions weren't already problematic enough, he made sure to put on full display whom is the real subject of his work, and it isnt the toiling and exploited classes. I have some ideological differences with him, but thankfully we don't need to worry about that. His actions speak to the actual nature of his ideas, so we need only gesture toward this photo as proof of how he demolished his own legacy, and how he doesnt deserve a place among those who actually struggle to educate people about the truth of our conditions. May his work be forgotten. What a sad, pathetic man. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (10 children) Beyond this seemingly damning image, what other evidence is there of Chomsky’s participation in miscreance and deviant behavior? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago (9 children) Well, as a leftists I think its just extra disappointing. Like I'm not a syndicalist or anarchist, he wasnt my guy, but he was a left voice. He was critical of imperialism and shined a light on corruption and injustice. Like when Chris Tucker appeared in flight logs its like, "oh the comedian? Weird," and maybe if I was a comedian I'd feel different. But CT also denied any actual associations. Chomsky's just like "yeah he's my friend, its none of your business" honesty is a virtue and all that, but the way he has attacked and criticized other leftists over the years, to see him defend this literal avatar of abuse, corruption and imperialism, is quite revealing. But my personal orientation toward Norm hasn't changed much. I had read a couple of his books but he's kind of meh imo. Obviously a very hard working and prolific academic, though academics can be disappointing from a leftist perspective. I doubt he had much time or interest to engage in the kinds of abuse that made Epstein notorious. I think Norm knew about the abuse and corruption, and definitely about his role in geopolitics. And maybe Epstein helped him out once personally in a way that deeply affected him. People are complicated, and Chomsky's loyalty is maybe admirable, though such circumstances are speculation. But if I found out my best friend was hanging out with Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz, as well as a cavalcade of notorious villains and literal monsters, that he had created a global network of underaged women who he exploited for sex 3 or more times per day, literally anything that we've found out about JE, I would cut them off immediately. And if I found out a different friend was hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein and was unrepentant, I'd cut them off too. That's all I need. The association is bad enough that I dont need further evidence, personally. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (6 children) Is there a link to Chomsky commenting on any of this? I’m simply stunned. And I know the monster Epstein collected public figures and I agree that being collected by him is damning. But I’d still like to hear what Chomsky has to say about the image. Like… anything? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (5 children) Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Heres the business insider article from 2023 https://www.businessinsider.com/noam-chomsky-mit-wsj-wall-street-journal-jeffrey-epstein-2023-4 And then you have the latest revelations https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/22/noam-chomsky-jeffrey-epstein-ties-emails Chomsky, 96, had also reportedly acknowledged receiving about $270,000 from an account linked to Epstein while sorting the disbursement of common funds relating to the first of his two marriages, though the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professor has insisted not “one penny” came directly from the infamous financier. The banality of evil: how Epstein’s powerful friends normalised him Read more The emails disclosed on 12 November by the Republican members of the US House oversight committee generally detailed the correspondence Epstein had with political, academic and business luminaries, including the Bill Clinton White House’s treasury secretary Larry Summers and Steve Bannon, the longtime ally of Donald Trump. Further, they reveal Epstein and Chomsky were close enough to discuss musical interests and even potential vacations. Perhaps the most telling of the Chomsky-related documents in question was a letter of support for Epstein attributed to Chomsky with the salutation “to whom it may concern”. It is not dated, but it contains a typed signature with Chomsky’s name and citing his position as a University of Arizona laureate professor, a role he began in 2017, as first reported by the Massachusetts news outlet WBUR. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (3 children) My day is just wrecked. Chomsky was the last person I believed in. I don’t believe he diddled… but his descriptions of hanging out with Epstein turn my stomach. Happy Christmas Eve. :-) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (2 children) We dont need them we need each other permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 child) We surely need people that care about truth and justice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago I care! And I assume you do too. We dont need Chomsky for that permalink fedilink source parent [–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Did you maybe forget to paste the link for this? I'm assuming it's probably this one, but if there's another I'd like to see it. In this one, Chomsky first defends Epstein (and his own relationship with Epstein) by citing how it's a foundational tenant of western law that a person who has "served their sentence" is then absolved or "the same as everybody else" as Chomsky puts it. Which is amusing in itself coming from someone who supposedly is such a critic of how asymmetrically that law punishes the weak and powerless vs the rich and powerful. He then does an actual whataboutism by basically saying "well David Koch was even worse, and he also gave money to MIT where I worked. Did anybody say anything about that?" Ok then, Noam, would you go have brunch with Koch on his private jet too, or are you saying that's where you draw the line? I wish the interviewer, who was obviously dissatisfied with his answers had been less deferential to Chomsky. But if I found out my best friend was hanging out with Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz, as well as a cavalcade of notorious villains and literal monsters I was surprised to learn how close Epstein and Steve Bannon were. Not at all surprised by the connection, but if you read the ongoing conversations they had, they were like a couple of teens gossiping with each other over the phone every night. I do wonder exactly how aware he was that his good buddy Epstein was besties with, as you said, notorious villians and literal monsters (like would Chomsky still be ok if Epstein had been good friends with David Koch for example?), but I doubt Chomsky was as in the dark about it as his fans would like to think. He was aware that Epstein had at least in the past, if not currently was outright human-trafficking children for SA on his private island, but apparently he did his time, and that makes him "the same as everybody else." It really is an illuminating example of how interconnected so many of the so-called elite really are, even those whose public personas would make us think they could be nothing but bitter enemies. My personal vibes-based belief is that it's a soft form of class solidarity. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 10 months ago (1 child) I just assume anyone I see on TV or in the mainstream, is an intelligence agent. You never see a single person on TV that isnt completely insane. The first time I heard that guy speak, I knew he was a spook. They would never allow someone who wasn't a spook to speak about politics or war or whatever on the news media. There were some good journalists, but I'm not even sure if there is a single place in the world that an actual journalist could be safe. These days it's usually the cops going after journalists and stuff on Trumped up charges like we are living in Russia or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago It reminds me of this old Chomsky video https://m.youtube.com/shorts/AnFUWrjr25A "I'm sure you believe what you are saying but if you believed something different you wouldnt be sitting here." Really calling the kettle on this permalink fedilink source parent [–] dorkofeverything@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago (1 child) Do you think Dawkins is culpable for anything? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago Other than being a fuckin loser? I haven't heard of any deep associations between JE and Dawkins. I have to go back to check what Gladwell's associations were as it has been a while since I heard about their connection. It's possible that I'm over stating his connection because I really don't like his dumb books and he looks like such a fucking creep permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (10 children) Beyond this seemingly damning image, what other evidence is there of Chomsky’s participation in miscreance and deviant behavior? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago (9 children) Well, as a leftists I think its just extra disappointing. Like I'm not a syndicalist or anarchist, he wasnt my guy, but he was a left voice. He was critical of imperialism and shined a light on corruption and injustice. Like when Chris Tucker appeared in flight logs its like, "oh the comedian? Weird," and maybe if I was a comedian I'd feel different. But CT also denied any actual associations. Chomsky's just like "yeah he's my friend, its none of your business" honesty is a virtue and all that, but the way he has attacked and criticized other leftists over the years, to see him defend this literal avatar of abuse, corruption and imperialism, is quite revealing. But my personal orientation toward Norm hasn't changed much. I had read a couple of his books but he's kind of meh imo. Obviously a very hard working and prolific academic, though academics can be disappointing from a leftist perspective. I doubt he had much time or interest to engage in the kinds of abuse that made Epstein notorious. I think Norm knew about the abuse and corruption, and definitely about his role in geopolitics. And maybe Epstein helped him out once personally in a way that deeply affected him. People are complicated, and Chomsky's loyalty is maybe admirable, though such circumstances are speculation. But if I found out my best friend was hanging out with Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz, as well as a cavalcade of notorious villains and literal monsters, that he had created a global network of underaged women who he exploited for sex 3 or more times per day, literally anything that we've found out about JE, I would cut them off immediately. And if I found out a different friend was hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein and was unrepentant, I'd cut them off too. That's all I need. The association is bad enough that I dont need further evidence, personally. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (6 children) Is there a link to Chomsky commenting on any of this? I’m simply stunned. And I know the monster Epstein collected public figures and I agree that being collected by him is damning. But I’d still like to hear what Chomsky has to say about the image. Like… anything? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (5 children) Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Heres the business insider article from 2023 https://www.businessinsider.com/noam-chomsky-mit-wsj-wall-street-journal-jeffrey-epstein-2023-4 And then you have the latest revelations https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/22/noam-chomsky-jeffrey-epstein-ties-emails Chomsky, 96, had also reportedly acknowledged receiving about $270,000 from an account linked to Epstein while sorting the disbursement of common funds relating to the first of his two marriages, though the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professor has insisted not “one penny” came directly from the infamous financier. The banality of evil: how Epstein’s powerful friends normalised him Read more The emails disclosed on 12 November by the Republican members of the US House oversight committee generally detailed the correspondence Epstein had with political, academic and business luminaries, including the Bill Clinton White House’s treasury secretary Larry Summers and Steve Bannon, the longtime ally of Donald Trump. Further, they reveal Epstein and Chomsky were close enough to discuss musical interests and even potential vacations. Perhaps the most telling of the Chomsky-related documents in question was a letter of support for Epstein attributed to Chomsky with the salutation “to whom it may concern”. It is not dated, but it contains a typed signature with Chomsky’s name and citing his position as a University of Arizona laureate professor, a role he began in 2017, as first reported by the Massachusetts news outlet WBUR. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (3 children) My day is just wrecked. Chomsky was the last person I believed in. I don’t believe he diddled… but his descriptions of hanging out with Epstein turn my stomach. Happy Christmas Eve. :-) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (2 children) We dont need them we need each other permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 child) We surely need people that care about truth and justice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago I care! And I assume you do too. We dont need Chomsky for that permalink fedilink source parent [–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Did you maybe forget to paste the link for this? I'm assuming it's probably this one, but if there's another I'd like to see it. In this one, Chomsky first defends Epstein (and his own relationship with Epstein) by citing how it's a foundational tenant of western law that a person who has "served their sentence" is then absolved or "the same as everybody else" as Chomsky puts it. Which is amusing in itself coming from someone who supposedly is such a critic of how asymmetrically that law punishes the weak and powerless vs the rich and powerful. He then does an actual whataboutism by basically saying "well David Koch was even worse, and he also gave money to MIT where I worked. Did anybody say anything about that?" Ok then, Noam, would you go have brunch with Koch on his private jet too, or are you saying that's where you draw the line? I wish the interviewer, who was obviously dissatisfied with his answers had been less deferential to Chomsky. But if I found out my best friend was hanging out with Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz, as well as a cavalcade of notorious villains and literal monsters I was surprised to learn how close Epstein and Steve Bannon were. Not at all surprised by the connection, but if you read the ongoing conversations they had, they were like a couple of teens gossiping with each other over the phone every night. I do wonder exactly how aware he was that his good buddy Epstein was besties with, as you said, notorious villians and literal monsters (like would Chomsky still be ok if Epstein had been good friends with David Koch for example?), but I doubt Chomsky was as in the dark about it as his fans would like to think. He was aware that Epstein had at least in the past, if not currently was outright human-trafficking children for SA on his private island, but apparently he did his time, and that makes him "the same as everybody else." It really is an illuminating example of how interconnected so many of the so-called elite really are, even those whose public personas would make us think they could be nothing but bitter enemies. My personal vibes-based belief is that it's a soft form of class solidarity. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 10 months ago (1 child) I just assume anyone I see on TV or in the mainstream, is an intelligence agent. You never see a single person on TV that isnt completely insane. The first time I heard that guy speak, I knew he was a spook. They would never allow someone who wasn't a spook to speak about politics or war or whatever on the news media. There were some good journalists, but I'm not even sure if there is a single place in the world that an actual journalist could be safe. These days it's usually the cops going after journalists and stuff on Trumped up charges like we are living in Russia or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago It reminds me of this old Chomsky video https://m.youtube.com/shorts/AnFUWrjr25A "I'm sure you believe what you are saying but if you believed something different you wouldnt be sitting here." Really calling the kettle on this permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago (9 children) Well, as a leftists I think its just extra disappointing. Like I'm not a syndicalist or anarchist, he wasnt my guy, but he was a left voice. He was critical of imperialism and shined a light on corruption and injustice. Like when Chris Tucker appeared in flight logs its like, "oh the comedian? Weird," and maybe if I was a comedian I'd feel different. But CT also denied any actual associations. Chomsky's just like "yeah he's my friend, its none of your business" honesty is a virtue and all that, but the way he has attacked and criticized other leftists over the years, to see him defend this literal avatar of abuse, corruption and imperialism, is quite revealing. But my personal orientation toward Norm hasn't changed much. I had read a couple of his books but he's kind of meh imo. Obviously a very hard working and prolific academic, though academics can be disappointing from a leftist perspective. I doubt he had much time or interest to engage in the kinds of abuse that made Epstein notorious. I think Norm knew about the abuse and corruption, and definitely about his role in geopolitics. And maybe Epstein helped him out once personally in a way that deeply affected him. People are complicated, and Chomsky's loyalty is maybe admirable, though such circumstances are speculation. But if I found out my best friend was hanging out with Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz, as well as a cavalcade of notorious villains and literal monsters, that he had created a global network of underaged women who he exploited for sex 3 or more times per day, literally anything that we've found out about JE, I would cut them off immediately. And if I found out a different friend was hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein and was unrepentant, I'd cut them off too. That's all I need. The association is bad enough that I dont need further evidence, personally. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (6 children) Is there a link to Chomsky commenting on any of this? I’m simply stunned. And I know the monster Epstein collected public figures and I agree that being collected by him is damning. But I’d still like to hear what Chomsky has to say about the image. Like… anything? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (5 children) Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Heres the business insider article from 2023 https://www.businessinsider.com/noam-chomsky-mit-wsj-wall-street-journal-jeffrey-epstein-2023-4 And then you have the latest revelations https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/22/noam-chomsky-jeffrey-epstein-ties-emails Chomsky, 96, had also reportedly acknowledged receiving about $270,000 from an account linked to Epstein while sorting the disbursement of common funds relating to the first of his two marriages, though the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professor has insisted not “one penny” came directly from the infamous financier. The banality of evil: how Epstein’s powerful friends normalised him Read more The emails disclosed on 12 November by the Republican members of the US House oversight committee generally detailed the correspondence Epstein had with political, academic and business luminaries, including the Bill Clinton White House’s treasury secretary Larry Summers and Steve Bannon, the longtime ally of Donald Trump. Further, they reveal Epstein and Chomsky were close enough to discuss musical interests and even potential vacations. Perhaps the most telling of the Chomsky-related documents in question was a letter of support for Epstein attributed to Chomsky with the salutation “to whom it may concern”. It is not dated, but it contains a typed signature with Chomsky’s name and citing his position as a University of Arizona laureate professor, a role he began in 2017, as first reported by the Massachusetts news outlet WBUR. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (3 children) My day is just wrecked. Chomsky was the last person I believed in. I don’t believe he diddled… but his descriptions of hanging out with Epstein turn my stomach. Happy Christmas Eve. :-) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (2 children) We dont need them we need each other permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 child) We surely need people that care about truth and justice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago I care! And I assume you do too. We dont need Chomsky for that permalink fedilink source parent [–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Did you maybe forget to paste the link for this? I'm assuming it's probably this one, but if there's another I'd like to see it. In this one, Chomsky first defends Epstein (and his own relationship with Epstein) by citing how it's a foundational tenant of western law that a person who has "served their sentence" is then absolved or "the same as everybody else" as Chomsky puts it. Which is amusing in itself coming from someone who supposedly is such a critic of how asymmetrically that law punishes the weak and powerless vs the rich and powerful. He then does an actual whataboutism by basically saying "well David Koch was even worse, and he also gave money to MIT where I worked. Did anybody say anything about that?" Ok then, Noam, would you go have brunch with Koch on his private jet too, or are you saying that's where you draw the line? I wish the interviewer, who was obviously dissatisfied with his answers had been less deferential to Chomsky. But if I found out my best friend was hanging out with Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz, as well as a cavalcade of notorious villains and literal monsters I was surprised to learn how close Epstein and Steve Bannon were. Not at all surprised by the connection, but if you read the ongoing conversations they had, they were like a couple of teens gossiping with each other over the phone every night. I do wonder exactly how aware he was that his good buddy Epstein was besties with, as you said, notorious villians and literal monsters (like would Chomsky still be ok if Epstein had been good friends with David Koch for example?), but I doubt Chomsky was as in the dark about it as his fans would like to think. He was aware that Epstein had at least in the past, if not currently was outright human-trafficking children for SA on his private island, but apparently he did his time, and that makes him "the same as everybody else." It really is an illuminating example of how interconnected so many of the so-called elite really are, even those whose public personas would make us think they could be nothing but bitter enemies. My personal vibes-based belief is that it's a soft form of class solidarity. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 10 months ago (1 child) I just assume anyone I see on TV or in the mainstream, is an intelligence agent. You never see a single person on TV that isnt completely insane. The first time I heard that guy speak, I knew he was a spook. They would never allow someone who wasn't a spook to speak about politics or war or whatever on the news media. There were some good journalists, but I'm not even sure if there is a single place in the world that an actual journalist could be safe. These days it's usually the cops going after journalists and stuff on Trumped up charges like we are living in Russia or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago It reminds me of this old Chomsky video https://m.youtube.com/shorts/AnFUWrjr25A "I'm sure you believe what you are saying but if you believed something different you wouldnt be sitting here." Really calling the kettle on this permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (6 children) Is there a link to Chomsky commenting on any of this? I’m simply stunned. And I know the monster Epstein collected public figures and I agree that being collected by him is damning. But I’d still like to hear what Chomsky has to say about the image. Like… anything? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (5 children) Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Heres the business insider article from 2023 https://www.businessinsider.com/noam-chomsky-mit-wsj-wall-street-journal-jeffrey-epstein-2023-4 And then you have the latest revelations https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/22/noam-chomsky-jeffrey-epstein-ties-emails Chomsky, 96, had also reportedly acknowledged receiving about $270,000 from an account linked to Epstein while sorting the disbursement of common funds relating to the first of his two marriages, though the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professor has insisted not “one penny” came directly from the infamous financier. The banality of evil: how Epstein’s powerful friends normalised him Read more The emails disclosed on 12 November by the Republican members of the US House oversight committee generally detailed the correspondence Epstein had with political, academic and business luminaries, including the Bill Clinton White House’s treasury secretary Larry Summers and Steve Bannon, the longtime ally of Donald Trump. Further, they reveal Epstein and Chomsky were close enough to discuss musical interests and even potential vacations. Perhaps the most telling of the Chomsky-related documents in question was a letter of support for Epstein attributed to Chomsky with the salutation “to whom it may concern”. It is not dated, but it contains a typed signature with Chomsky’s name and citing his position as a University of Arizona laureate professor, a role he began in 2017, as first reported by the Massachusetts news outlet WBUR. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (3 children) My day is just wrecked. Chomsky was the last person I believed in. I don’t believe he diddled… but his descriptions of hanging out with Epstein turn my stomach. Happy Christmas Eve. :-) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (2 children) We dont need them we need each other permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 child) We surely need people that care about truth and justice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago I care! And I assume you do too. We dont need Chomsky for that permalink fedilink source parent [–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Did you maybe forget to paste the link for this? I'm assuming it's probably this one, but if there's another I'd like to see it. In this one, Chomsky first defends Epstein (and his own relationship with Epstein) by citing how it's a foundational tenant of western law that a person who has "served their sentence" is then absolved or "the same as everybody else" as Chomsky puts it. Which is amusing in itself coming from someone who supposedly is such a critic of how asymmetrically that law punishes the weak and powerless vs the rich and powerful. He then does an actual whataboutism by basically saying "well David Koch was even worse, and he also gave money to MIT where I worked. Did anybody say anything about that?" Ok then, Noam, would you go have brunch with Koch on his private jet too, or are you saying that's where you draw the line? I wish the interviewer, who was obviously dissatisfied with his answers had been less deferential to Chomsky. But if I found out my best friend was hanging out with Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz, as well as a cavalcade of notorious villains and literal monsters I was surprised to learn how close Epstein and Steve Bannon were. Not at all surprised by the connection, but if you read the ongoing conversations they had, they were like a couple of teens gossiping with each other over the phone every night. I do wonder exactly how aware he was that his good buddy Epstein was besties with, as you said, notorious villians and literal monsters (like would Chomsky still be ok if Epstein had been good friends with David Koch for example?), but I doubt Chomsky was as in the dark about it as his fans would like to think. He was aware that Epstein had at least in the past, if not currently was outright human-trafficking children for SA on his private island, but apparently he did his time, and that makes him "the same as everybody else." It really is an illuminating example of how interconnected so many of the so-called elite really are, even those whose public personas would make us think they could be nothing but bitter enemies. My personal vibes-based belief is that it's a soft form of class solidarity. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (5 children) Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Heres the business insider article from 2023 https://www.businessinsider.com/noam-chomsky-mit-wsj-wall-street-journal-jeffrey-epstein-2023-4 And then you have the latest revelations https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/22/noam-chomsky-jeffrey-epstein-ties-emails Chomsky, 96, had also reportedly acknowledged receiving about $270,000 from an account linked to Epstein while sorting the disbursement of common funds relating to the first of his two marriages, though the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professor has insisted not “one penny” came directly from the infamous financier. The banality of evil: how Epstein’s powerful friends normalised him Read more The emails disclosed on 12 November by the Republican members of the US House oversight committee generally detailed the correspondence Epstein had with political, academic and business luminaries, including the Bill Clinton White House’s treasury secretary Larry Summers and Steve Bannon, the longtime ally of Donald Trump. Further, they reveal Epstein and Chomsky were close enough to discuss musical interests and even potential vacations. Perhaps the most telling of the Chomsky-related documents in question was a letter of support for Epstein attributed to Chomsky with the salutation “to whom it may concern”. It is not dated, but it contains a typed signature with Chomsky’s name and citing his position as a University of Arizona laureate professor, a role he began in 2017, as first reported by the Massachusetts news outlet WBUR. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (3 children) My day is just wrecked. Chomsky was the last person I believed in. I don’t believe he diddled… but his descriptions of hanging out with Epstein turn my stomach. Happy Christmas Eve. :-) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (2 children) We dont need them we need each other permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 child) We surely need people that care about truth and justice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago I care! And I assume you do too. We dont need Chomsky for that permalink fedilink source parent [–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Did you maybe forget to paste the link for this? I'm assuming it's probably this one, but if there's another I'd like to see it. In this one, Chomsky first defends Epstein (and his own relationship with Epstein) by citing how it's a foundational tenant of western law that a person who has "served their sentence" is then absolved or "the same as everybody else" as Chomsky puts it. Which is amusing in itself coming from someone who supposedly is such a critic of how asymmetrically that law punishes the weak and powerless vs the rich and powerful. He then does an actual whataboutism by basically saying "well David Koch was even worse, and he also gave money to MIT where I worked. Did anybody say anything about that?" Ok then, Noam, would you go have brunch with Koch on his private jet too, or are you saying that's where you draw the line? I wish the interviewer, who was obviously dissatisfied with his answers had been less deferential to Chomsky. But if I found out my best friend was hanging out with Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz, as well as a cavalcade of notorious villains and literal monsters I was surprised to learn how close Epstein and Steve Bannon were. Not at all surprised by the connection, but if you read the ongoing conversations they had, they were like a couple of teens gossiping with each other over the phone every night. I do wonder exactly how aware he was that his good buddy Epstein was besties with, as you said, notorious villians and literal monsters (like would Chomsky still be ok if Epstein had been good friends with David Koch for example?), but I doubt Chomsky was as in the dark about it as his fans would like to think. He was aware that Epstein had at least in the past, if not currently was outright human-trafficking children for SA on his private island, but apparently he did his time, and that makes him "the same as everybody else." It really is an illuminating example of how interconnected so many of the so-called elite really are, even those whose public personas would make us think they could be nothing but bitter enemies. My personal vibes-based belief is that it's a soft form of class solidarity. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (3 children) My day is just wrecked. Chomsky was the last person I believed in. I don’t believe he diddled… but his descriptions of hanging out with Epstein turn my stomach. Happy Christmas Eve. :-) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (2 children) We dont need them we need each other permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 child) We surely need people that care about truth and justice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago I care! And I assume you do too. We dont need Chomsky for that permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Juice@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago (2 children) We dont need them we need each other permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 child) We surely need people that care about truth and justice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago I care! And I assume you do too. We dont need Chomsky for that permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 child) We surely need people that care about truth and justice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago I care! And I assume you do too. We dont need Chomsky for that permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago I care! And I assume you do too. We dont need Chomsky for that permalink fedilink source parent
[–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago Here is a video of Chomsky from 2020, before the connection between JE and Chomsky had been revealed. He gets a little indignant and defensive about Epstein, interesting flavor info. Did you maybe forget to paste the link for this? I'm assuming it's probably this one, but if there's another I'd like to see it. In this one, Chomsky first defends Epstein (and his own relationship with Epstein) by citing how it's a foundational tenant of western law that a person who has "served their sentence" is then absolved or "the same as everybody else" as Chomsky puts it. Which is amusing in itself coming from someone who supposedly is such a critic of how asymmetrically that law punishes the weak and powerless vs the rich and powerful. He then does an actual whataboutism by basically saying "well David Koch was even worse, and he also gave money to MIT where I worked. Did anybody say anything about that?" Ok then, Noam, would you go have brunch with Koch on his private jet too, or are you saying that's where you draw the line? I wish the interviewer, who was obviously dissatisfied with his answers had been less deferential to Chomsky. But if I found out my best friend was hanging out with Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz, as well as a cavalcade of notorious villains and literal monsters I was surprised to learn how close Epstein and Steve Bannon were. Not at all surprised by the connection, but if you read the ongoing conversations they had, they were like a couple of teens gossiping with each other over the phone every night. I do wonder exactly how aware he was that his good buddy Epstein was besties with, as you said, notorious villians and literal monsters (like would Chomsky still be ok if Epstein had been good friends with David Koch for example?), but I doubt Chomsky was as in the dark about it as his fans would like to think. He was aware that Epstein had at least in the past, if not currently was outright human-trafficking children for SA on his private island, but apparently he did his time, and that makes him "the same as everybody else." It really is an illuminating example of how interconnected so many of the so-called elite really are, even those whose public personas would make us think they could be nothing but bitter enemies. My personal vibes-based belief is that it's a soft form of class solidarity. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 10 months ago (1 child) I just assume anyone I see on TV or in the mainstream, is an intelligence agent. You never see a single person on TV that isnt completely insane. The first time I heard that guy speak, I knew he was a spook. They would never allow someone who wasn't a spook to speak about politics or war or whatever on the news media. There were some good journalists, but I'm not even sure if there is a single place in the world that an actual journalist could be safe. These days it's usually the cops going after journalists and stuff on Trumped up charges like we are living in Russia or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago It reminds me of this old Chomsky video https://m.youtube.com/shorts/AnFUWrjr25A "I'm sure you believe what you are saying but if you believed something different you wouldnt be sitting here." Really calling the kettle on this permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago It reminds me of this old Chomsky video https://m.youtube.com/shorts/AnFUWrjr25A "I'm sure you believe what you are saying but if you believed something different you wouldnt be sitting here." Really calling the kettle on this permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dorkofeverything@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago (1 child) Do you think Dawkins is culpable for anything? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago Other than being a fuckin loser? I haven't heard of any deep associations between JE and Dawkins. I have to go back to check what Gladwell's associations were as it has been a while since I heard about their connection. It's possible that I'm over stating his connection because I really don't like his dumb books and he looks like such a fucking creep permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago Other than being a fuckin loser? I haven't heard of any deep associations between JE and Dawkins. I have to go back to check what Gladwell's associations were as it has been a while since I heard about their connection. It's possible that I'm over stating his connection because I really don't like his dumb books and he looks like such a fucking creep permalink fedilink source parent
[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago Epstein was a major bundler and influencer in the liberal establishment, specifically within the US East Coast and the EU West Coast regions. Chompsky was also in this circle of influential political and media figures. Its not crazy that they'd run into each other any more than Epstein hobnobbing with any other Ivy League professors or national media figures or British Royals. did the book sales for manufacturing consent get him that fucking rich? More that knowing a guy like Epstein is what gets you regularly syndicated in news columns and invited as a guest onto TV shows. You could say the same about Larry Summers or Steven Pinker. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 12 points 10 months ago I think there are simpler explanations for Clinton and Gates' presence. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago LOL the lib mental gymnastics permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 12 points 10 months ago I think there are simpler explanations for Clinton and Gates' presence. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago LOL the lib mental gymnastics permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (1 child) Very good question indeed. Sadly, it doesn't help that Chomsky keeps avoiding answering this and other related questions. As someone so vocal about serious crimes going unpunished, I'd imagine he'd just openly say what's going on. If he's so adamant about staying silent, it only adds more doubt and further questions. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Jtotheb@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago I think Chomsky is still nonverbal from his 2023 stroke. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Jtotheb@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago I think Chomsky is still nonverbal from his 2023 stroke. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 23 points 10 months ago (4 children) If you look at his emails with Epstein, it's literally Epstein asking him about his academic work, Epstein toying with various little theories and asking Chomsky about them, etc. All above board so far. Him being on the plane is not great, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's a pedo. It opens up that possibility, but there is not proof of him doing anything wrong. Yet. I really hope he didn't do anything wrong, but it's obviously a possibility. No matter what you think about Chomsky, he's an extremely important intellectual figure and is associated with the left. Him going down would be bad for all of us - so I hope he's not a bastard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Khaliso@slrpnk.net 10 points 10 months ago* Thanks for the recommendation, will take a look at it. What I've read of Chomsky so far is often a critique of (mostly, but not exclusively) US Imperialism, so I'm curious what this person is arguing permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago True - I totally agree. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Khaliso@slrpnk.net 10 points 10 months ago* Thanks for the recommendation, will take a look at it. What I've read of Chomsky so far is often a critique of (mostly, but not exclusively) US Imperialism, so I'm curious what this person is arguing permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago True - I totally agree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Khaliso@slrpnk.net 10 points 10 months ago* Thanks for the recommendation, will take a look at it. What I've read of Chomsky so far is often a critique of (mostly, but not exclusively) US Imperialism, so I'm curious what this person is arguing permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago True - I totally agree. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago True - I totally agree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago True - I totally agree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] davel@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago Regardless of the article’s nuance or criticality, Foreign Policy is a major mouthpiece of the US military-industrial complex. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[+] davel@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago Regardless of the article’s nuance or criticality, Foreign Policy is a major mouthpiece of the US military-industrial complex. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago Regardless of the article’s nuance or criticality, Foreign Policy is a major mouthpiece of the US military-industrial complex. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] davel@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago Regardless of the article’s nuance or criticality, Foreign Policy is a major mouthpiece of the US military-industrial complex. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 5 points 10 months ago how does he afford to get a ticket to go to epstein island? Epstein was a Mossad agent offering "honey pots" for kompromat and rule over the US/west. "You're a super interesting guy. I'm having a supermodel orgy in Bahamas with lots of other famous people. I can fly by and pick you up"... you're not doing anything wrong by saying yes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 9 points 10 months ago (19 children) Chomsky is a Zionist which publicly supports the genocidal Apartheid and is anti BDS. Most of Chomsky's criticism is correct but coincidentally applies to Chcomsky himself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 19 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago (7 children) Indeed everyone who is anti Zionist is an anti Semite. Great analysis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago (6 children) I get the sarcasm, but I think the case can be made that it's the exact opposite. Zionism is terrible for the Jews, both in the mythology and real wold consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago* (4 children) Zionism is awesome for Jews. After WW2 Jews essentially had a cultural golden ticket. They could have perpetually ridden the wave of being treated as the world's most victimized group forever. There was almost nothing worse a person could be than an anti-semite or Holocaust denier. Zionism broke that spell, and "anti-semite" has become a bad joke. 80%+ of Jews worldwide support Israel Support Israel how though? 80% certainly don't support the current government, or the settlements. Also, look how many Americans support(ed) Trump. Does that mean Trump is "awesome" for Americans, or even for his supporters? Slavery ... directly benefitted them. I disagree. There were certainly material benefits but, ultimately, I don't think anyone is better off because of slavery. America still is unable to reconcile with it's own history, and that has had some pretty obvious consequences for everyone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago* (3 children) Not at all. The Holocaust industry only took off after the 70s and mostly because intense Israeli lobbying efforts. This becomes very obvious when you see Holocaust museums supporting the modern day Holocaust in Gaza in the most twisted irony possible. There is no such thing as the "current Israeli government". Israel is a Jewish surpremacist ethnostate and has been so since its inception. It's like "supporting Nazi Germany but that Hitler guy isn't very cool". Nazi Germany didn't revolve solely around Hitler. If he didn't exist some other guy would have been be the Fuhrer. The entire industrial revolution was powered by slavery. Your logic makes no sense. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) Israel came from rich Zionist Jewish influence in Britain and the world Zionist congress, leading up to the Balfour declaration. And colonization of Palestine and organizing before the Balfour declaration. This way before the Holocaust even happened. More Russians died during the Holocaust than Jews and the vast majority of Europeans don't even know that. It certainly has nothing to do with guilt. You should really check up on your history. The industrial revolution happened because Europe had massive amounts of money to build schools and infrastructure from slavery. After that Europe exploited colonies in Africa for oil and other resources. Now that European colonization and theft is fading they are rapidly declining in wealth. Which is why they are gearing up with big weapons because exploiting the global south is the only way they know how to get ahead. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago (6 children) He is anti BDS and supports the "right of Israel to exist". That's the definition of Zionism. Like a true Liberal Zionist he does minor criticism but refuses to acknowledge that Israel shouldn't exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago And the state of Israel has a right to exist Why should a genocidal European settler-colonial state have a right to exist in West Asia? permalink fedilink source parent [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago Zionism is to argue that Jews deserve an ethnostate called Israel and it is based on Jewish surpremacism. Israel has no right to exist and should not exist. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago "Nazi Germany has its faults but it has a right to exist" - Noam Chomsky. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (3 replies) load more comments (4 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago (7 children) Indeed everyone who is anti Zionist is an anti Semite. Great analysis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago (6 children) I get the sarcasm, but I think the case can be made that it's the exact opposite. Zionism is terrible for the Jews, both in the mythology and real wold consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago* (4 children) Zionism is awesome for Jews. After WW2 Jews essentially had a cultural golden ticket. They could have perpetually ridden the wave of being treated as the world's most victimized group forever. There was almost nothing worse a person could be than an anti-semite or Holocaust denier. Zionism broke that spell, and "anti-semite" has become a bad joke. 80%+ of Jews worldwide support Israel Support Israel how though? 80% certainly don't support the current government, or the settlements. Also, look how many Americans support(ed) Trump. Does that mean Trump is "awesome" for Americans, or even for his supporters? Slavery ... directly benefitted them. I disagree. There were certainly material benefits but, ultimately, I don't think anyone is better off because of slavery. America still is unable to reconcile with it's own history, and that has had some pretty obvious consequences for everyone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago* (3 children) Not at all. The Holocaust industry only took off after the 70s and mostly because intense Israeli lobbying efforts. This becomes very obvious when you see Holocaust museums supporting the modern day Holocaust in Gaza in the most twisted irony possible. There is no such thing as the "current Israeli government". Israel is a Jewish surpremacist ethnostate and has been so since its inception. It's like "supporting Nazi Germany but that Hitler guy isn't very cool". Nazi Germany didn't revolve solely around Hitler. If he didn't exist some other guy would have been be the Fuhrer. The entire industrial revolution was powered by slavery. Your logic makes no sense. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) Israel came from rich Zionist Jewish influence in Britain and the world Zionist congress, leading up to the Balfour declaration. And colonization of Palestine and organizing before the Balfour declaration. This way before the Holocaust even happened. More Russians died during the Holocaust than Jews and the vast majority of Europeans don't even know that. It certainly has nothing to do with guilt. You should really check up on your history. The industrial revolution happened because Europe had massive amounts of money to build schools and infrastructure from slavery. After that Europe exploited colonies in Africa for oil and other resources. Now that European colonization and theft is fading they are rapidly declining in wealth. Which is why they are gearing up with big weapons because exploiting the global south is the only way they know how to get ahead. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago (7 children) Indeed everyone who is anti Zionist is an anti Semite. Great analysis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago (6 children) I get the sarcasm, but I think the case can be made that it's the exact opposite. Zionism is terrible for the Jews, both in the mythology and real wold consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago* (4 children) Zionism is awesome for Jews. After WW2 Jews essentially had a cultural golden ticket. They could have perpetually ridden the wave of being treated as the world's most victimized group forever. There was almost nothing worse a person could be than an anti-semite or Holocaust denier. Zionism broke that spell, and "anti-semite" has become a bad joke. 80%+ of Jews worldwide support Israel Support Israel how though? 80% certainly don't support the current government, or the settlements. Also, look how many Americans support(ed) Trump. Does that mean Trump is "awesome" for Americans, or even for his supporters? Slavery ... directly benefitted them. I disagree. There were certainly material benefits but, ultimately, I don't think anyone is better off because of slavery. America still is unable to reconcile with it's own history, and that has had some pretty obvious consequences for everyone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago* (3 children) Not at all. The Holocaust industry only took off after the 70s and mostly because intense Israeli lobbying efforts. This becomes very obvious when you see Holocaust museums supporting the modern day Holocaust in Gaza in the most twisted irony possible. There is no such thing as the "current Israeli government". Israel is a Jewish surpremacist ethnostate and has been so since its inception. It's like "supporting Nazi Germany but that Hitler guy isn't very cool". Nazi Germany didn't revolve solely around Hitler. If he didn't exist some other guy would have been be the Fuhrer. The entire industrial revolution was powered by slavery. Your logic makes no sense. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) Israel came from rich Zionist Jewish influence in Britain and the world Zionist congress, leading up to the Balfour declaration. And colonization of Palestine and organizing before the Balfour declaration. This way before the Holocaust even happened. More Russians died during the Holocaust than Jews and the vast majority of Europeans don't even know that. It certainly has nothing to do with guilt. You should really check up on your history. The industrial revolution happened because Europe had massive amounts of money to build schools and infrastructure from slavery. After that Europe exploited colonies in Africa for oil and other resources. Now that European colonization and theft is fading they are rapidly declining in wealth. Which is why they are gearing up with big weapons because exploiting the global south is the only way they know how to get ahead. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago (6 children) I get the sarcasm, but I think the case can be made that it's the exact opposite. Zionism is terrible for the Jews, both in the mythology and real wold consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago* (4 children) Zionism is awesome for Jews. After WW2 Jews essentially had a cultural golden ticket. They could have perpetually ridden the wave of being treated as the world's most victimized group forever. There was almost nothing worse a person could be than an anti-semite or Holocaust denier. Zionism broke that spell, and "anti-semite" has become a bad joke. 80%+ of Jews worldwide support Israel Support Israel how though? 80% certainly don't support the current government, or the settlements. Also, look how many Americans support(ed) Trump. Does that mean Trump is "awesome" for Americans, or even for his supporters? Slavery ... directly benefitted them. I disagree. There were certainly material benefits but, ultimately, I don't think anyone is better off because of slavery. America still is unable to reconcile with it's own history, and that has had some pretty obvious consequences for everyone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago* (3 children) Not at all. The Holocaust industry only took off after the 70s and mostly because intense Israeli lobbying efforts. This becomes very obvious when you see Holocaust museums supporting the modern day Holocaust in Gaza in the most twisted irony possible. There is no such thing as the "current Israeli government". Israel is a Jewish surpremacist ethnostate and has been so since its inception. It's like "supporting Nazi Germany but that Hitler guy isn't very cool". Nazi Germany didn't revolve solely around Hitler. If he didn't exist some other guy would have been be the Fuhrer. The entire industrial revolution was powered by slavery. Your logic makes no sense. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) Israel came from rich Zionist Jewish influence in Britain and the world Zionist congress, leading up to the Balfour declaration. And colonization of Palestine and organizing before the Balfour declaration. This way before the Holocaust even happened. More Russians died during the Holocaust than Jews and the vast majority of Europeans don't even know that. It certainly has nothing to do with guilt. You should really check up on your history. The industrial revolution happened because Europe had massive amounts of money to build schools and infrastructure from slavery. After that Europe exploited colonies in Africa for oil and other resources. Now that European colonization and theft is fading they are rapidly declining in wealth. Which is why they are gearing up with big weapons because exploiting the global south is the only way they know how to get ahead. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago* (4 children) Zionism is awesome for Jews. After WW2 Jews essentially had a cultural golden ticket. They could have perpetually ridden the wave of being treated as the world's most victimized group forever. There was almost nothing worse a person could be than an anti-semite or Holocaust denier. Zionism broke that spell, and "anti-semite" has become a bad joke. 80%+ of Jews worldwide support Israel Support Israel how though? 80% certainly don't support the current government, or the settlements. Also, look how many Americans support(ed) Trump. Does that mean Trump is "awesome" for Americans, or even for his supporters? Slavery ... directly benefitted them. I disagree. There were certainly material benefits but, ultimately, I don't think anyone is better off because of slavery. America still is unable to reconcile with it's own history, and that has had some pretty obvious consequences for everyone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago* (3 children) Not at all. The Holocaust industry only took off after the 70s and mostly because intense Israeli lobbying efforts. This becomes very obvious when you see Holocaust museums supporting the modern day Holocaust in Gaza in the most twisted irony possible. There is no such thing as the "current Israeli government". Israel is a Jewish surpremacist ethnostate and has been so since its inception. It's like "supporting Nazi Germany but that Hitler guy isn't very cool". Nazi Germany didn't revolve solely around Hitler. If he didn't exist some other guy would have been be the Fuhrer. The entire industrial revolution was powered by slavery. Your logic makes no sense. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) Israel came from rich Zionist Jewish influence in Britain and the world Zionist congress, leading up to the Balfour declaration. And colonization of Palestine and organizing before the Balfour declaration. This way before the Holocaust even happened. More Russians died during the Holocaust than Jews and the vast majority of Europeans don't even know that. It certainly has nothing to do with guilt. You should really check up on your history. The industrial revolution happened because Europe had massive amounts of money to build schools and infrastructure from slavery. After that Europe exploited colonies in Africa for oil and other resources. Now that European colonization and theft is fading they are rapidly declining in wealth. Which is why they are gearing up with big weapons because exploiting the global south is the only way they know how to get ahead. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago* (4 children) Zionism is awesome for Jews. After WW2 Jews essentially had a cultural golden ticket. They could have perpetually ridden the wave of being treated as the world's most victimized group forever. There was almost nothing worse a person could be than an anti-semite or Holocaust denier. Zionism broke that spell, and "anti-semite" has become a bad joke. 80%+ of Jews worldwide support Israel Support Israel how though? 80% certainly don't support the current government, or the settlements. Also, look how many Americans support(ed) Trump. Does that mean Trump is "awesome" for Americans, or even for his supporters? Slavery ... directly benefitted them. I disagree. There were certainly material benefits but, ultimately, I don't think anyone is better off because of slavery. America still is unable to reconcile with it's own history, and that has had some pretty obvious consequences for everyone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago* (3 children) Not at all. The Holocaust industry only took off after the 70s and mostly because intense Israeli lobbying efforts. This becomes very obvious when you see Holocaust museums supporting the modern day Holocaust in Gaza in the most twisted irony possible. There is no such thing as the "current Israeli government". Israel is a Jewish surpremacist ethnostate and has been so since its inception. It's like "supporting Nazi Germany but that Hitler guy isn't very cool". Nazi Germany didn't revolve solely around Hitler. If he didn't exist some other guy would have been be the Fuhrer. The entire industrial revolution was powered by slavery. Your logic makes no sense. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) Israel came from rich Zionist Jewish influence in Britain and the world Zionist congress, leading up to the Balfour declaration. And colonization of Palestine and organizing before the Balfour declaration. This way before the Holocaust even happened. More Russians died during the Holocaust than Jews and the vast majority of Europeans don't even know that. It certainly has nothing to do with guilt. You should really check up on your history. The industrial revolution happened because Europe had massive amounts of money to build schools and infrastructure from slavery. After that Europe exploited colonies in Africa for oil and other resources. Now that European colonization and theft is fading they are rapidly declining in wealth. Which is why they are gearing up with big weapons because exploiting the global south is the only way they know how to get ahead. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago* (3 children) Not at all. The Holocaust industry only took off after the 70s and mostly because intense Israeli lobbying efforts. This becomes very obvious when you see Holocaust museums supporting the modern day Holocaust in Gaza in the most twisted irony possible. There is no such thing as the "current Israeli government". Israel is a Jewish surpremacist ethnostate and has been so since its inception. It's like "supporting Nazi Germany but that Hitler guy isn't very cool". Nazi Germany didn't revolve solely around Hitler. If he didn't exist some other guy would have been be the Fuhrer. The entire industrial revolution was powered by slavery. Your logic makes no sense. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) Israel came from rich Zionist Jewish influence in Britain and the world Zionist congress, leading up to the Balfour declaration. And colonization of Palestine and organizing before the Balfour declaration. This way before the Holocaust even happened. More Russians died during the Holocaust than Jews and the vast majority of Europeans don't even know that. It certainly has nothing to do with guilt. You should really check up on your history. The industrial revolution happened because Europe had massive amounts of money to build schools and infrastructure from slavery. After that Europe exploited colonies in Africa for oil and other resources. Now that European colonization and theft is fading they are rapidly declining in wealth. Which is why they are gearing up with big weapons because exploiting the global south is the only way they know how to get ahead. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) Israel came from rich Zionist Jewish influence in Britain and the world Zionist congress, leading up to the Balfour declaration. And colonization of Palestine and organizing before the Balfour declaration. This way before the Holocaust even happened. More Russians died during the Holocaust than Jews and the vast majority of Europeans don't even know that. It certainly has nothing to do with guilt. You should really check up on your history. The industrial revolution happened because Europe had massive amounts of money to build schools and infrastructure from slavery. After that Europe exploited colonies in Africa for oil and other resources. Now that European colonization and theft is fading they are rapidly declining in wealth. Which is why they are gearing up with big weapons because exploiting the global south is the only way they know how to get ahead. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child) Israel came from rich Zionist Jewish influence in Britain and the world Zionist congress, leading up to the Balfour declaration. And colonization of Palestine and organizing before the Balfour declaration. This way before the Holocaust even happened. More Russians died during the Holocaust than Jews and the vast majority of Europeans don't even know that. It certainly has nothing to do with guilt. You should really check up on your history. The industrial revolution happened because Europe had massive amounts of money to build schools and infrastructure from slavery. After that Europe exploited colonies in Africa for oil and other resources. Now that European colonization and theft is fading they are rapidly declining in wealth. Which is why they are gearing up with big weapons because exploiting the global south is the only way they know how to get ahead. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago (6 children) He is anti BDS and supports the "right of Israel to exist". That's the definition of Zionism. Like a true Liberal Zionist he does minor criticism but refuses to acknowledge that Israel shouldn't exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago And the state of Israel has a right to exist Why should a genocidal European settler-colonial state have a right to exist in West Asia? permalink fedilink source parent [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago Zionism is to argue that Jews deserve an ethnostate called Israel and it is based on Jewish surpremacism. Israel has no right to exist and should not exist. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago "Nazi Germany has its faults but it has a right to exist" - Noam Chomsky. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (3 replies)
[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago (6 children) He is anti BDS and supports the "right of Israel to exist". That's the definition of Zionism. Like a true Liberal Zionist he does minor criticism but refuses to acknowledge that Israel shouldn't exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago And the state of Israel has a right to exist Why should a genocidal European settler-colonial state have a right to exist in West Asia? permalink fedilink source parent [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago Zionism is to argue that Jews deserve an ethnostate called Israel and it is based on Jewish surpremacism. Israel has no right to exist and should not exist. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago "Nazi Germany has its faults but it has a right to exist" - Noam Chomsky. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (3 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago And the state of Israel has a right to exist Why should a genocidal European settler-colonial state have a right to exist in West Asia? permalink fedilink source parent [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago Zionism is to argue that Jews deserve an ethnostate called Israel and it is based on Jewish surpremacism. Israel has no right to exist and should not exist. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago And the state of Israel has a right to exist Why should a genocidal European settler-colonial state have a right to exist in West Asia? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago Zionism is to argue that Jews deserve an ethnostate called Israel and it is based on Jewish surpremacism. Israel has no right to exist and should not exist. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago "Nazi Germany has its faults but it has a right to exist" - Noam Chomsky. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago "Nazi Germany has its faults but it has a right to exist" - Noam Chomsky. permalink fedilink source parent
