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[–] 36 points 4 months ago (7 children)

Not just Windows 11 - any OS that has a hibernate feature, so all modern versions of Windows.

This isn't a Windows thing, it's a product of how SSD/NAND memory works/ages.

What a nothing article.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I thought the same. Basic arithmetic gets 500 word padding.

    Plus, no mention of hybrid sleep on desktops writing RAM to the SSD on every sleep. Certain usage patterns could make that a larger problem if the PC sleeps multiple times per day. But still, nothing new.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Hibernating twice a day with 32 GB of RAM? That seems insane to me.

    I pretty much never hibernate, because I'm usually gonna have the laptop plugged in again sometime later than day. Doing it twice a day means that they know they'll be using the computer in a few hours.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    I don't even hibernate unless I'm on the move.

    What am I saying, I don't even hibernate anymore, as sleep is so much better on power than it used to be.

    Like my battery would have to be below 15% for hibernate to kick in - I've manually set it there more as insurance that I don't lose work in case I've accidentally forgotten to hit ctrl-s.

    As someone who cut their teeth on DOS, then Win 3.1, saving all the time has been ingrained - you just can't trust a system to not lose it's mind occasionally.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    That's XDA these days, how far they have fallen lol

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    When OEMs started locking down phones and killing custom ROMs, they had to shill in order to stay relevant

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Pretty much, unfortunately for them it doesn't seem like they are staying much relevant at all despite of all the shilling, only actively sabotaging their credibility, a foundation of their relevance in the past, even more lol

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  • 37 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 65 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    It just seems someone doesn't know the difference between hibernate and suspend and is finding out that one writes to the disk.

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  • [–] 77 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Man discovers feature that has been around since Windows Vista, and decides to write a ragebait article about 20 year old technology.

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  • [–] 27 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    To be fair, windows hibernates a lot without telling the user (hibernates when shutting down, hibernates after sleeping too long). Hibernating when shutting down was largely meant to help with slow boot times on HDDs, and it maybe shouldn't be default now that everyone is on SSDs that both boot faster and receive more wear from hibernating.

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Hibernation on laptops helps preserve standby battery life, and I personally appreciate it as I may close my laptop lid and forget about it for a week.

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  • [–] 31 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    This is clickbait. Having hibernation and writing 32GB of RAM to the SSD are not "Windows 11", but standard behavior on any OS with hibernation.

    In my experience, the fragility and unreliably of M.2 and SSD has been greatly overstated.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    Windows could be considered uniquely responsible here since on a desktop you might think you're safe from this if you always shut it down properly after use. Yet "fast startup" is a thing. It's a questionable default that should be revisited.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago*

    Wait until he finds out what fast startup is

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  • [–] 101 points 4 months ago* (8 children)

    The idea that hibernation is going to cause substantial SSD wear is ludicrous on all but the smallest SSDs in systems with large amounts of RAM.

    Hibernation is only going to be saving ram in memory, so for most consumer systems 8, 16 or 32GB. Most SSDs nowadays are rated for hundreds to thousands of terabytes written as an effective life so you would need to hibernate hundreds of thousands of times. Even an aggressively low lifespan drive like a 256GB with ~500TBW would last over 18,000 full 32GB writes. Let's pretend you hibernate four times a day every day, every year. 365*4 = 1460 hibernations per year. 18,000/1460 = 12.32 years. Long past the lifespan of a computer. No spinning disk is likely to survive this long either.

    They even call it out in their article with their own math of twice a year and come up with 25 years of life. Just not something to worry about, at all, for almost any practical use case.

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  • [–] 43 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    12 years is beyond the lifetime of a computer?

    looks at my 13-year-old PC w/ original hard drive still going strong

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago

    My oldest SDD is still at like 85% health and it’s almost 15 years old O:

    Shoot, my VR machine is about 13 years old with original CPU, RAM, and HDD! It has my old SSD now and a newer video card (2070) so it can play rhythm games at 90-120FPS.

    My oldest working (working for tasks I’d actually use a computer for, not retro fun) computer is 15 years old! MacBook Pro. I need to get Linux installed on it. That’s a project for.. eventually.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    12 years is hardly past the lifespan of a computer. That is only past the lifespan of the computer if you want to run the latest stuff, particularly games. I even have spinning disk drives from a brand that hasn't existed since 2006 that work without errors. I just keep coming up with ideas to use my old 'ewaste' on for the fun of it, because that old hardware still works great even if slow by modern standards.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    it usually depends on context of how the computer is being used, but usually speaking, the major OS companies invalidate older hardware.

    intels 7700k(2017) and older are invalidated for W11 usage and W10 is on life support now for security. Apple is approaching the time period where its about to sunset intel based macbook/mac mini/imac/mac pro support.

    in the context of mainstream general computers, 12 years is a LONG time. its also around the cutoff for whats worth selling vs whats worth recycling at my workplace.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I have a pile of spinning disks that were online for less than ten years under low usage load that failed. I have bins and bins full of them at work with enterprise drives too.

    I have personally had a single ssd fail in 15 years, it was an SX6000 that died from controller issues. My first ones were 64GB ones back in the infancy of SSDs. The controllers have come a long way and speeds are now 10-100x faster and much more reliable. Never, ever had one go bad from TBW personally or professionally. I've never even met someone who has gotten that to happen, the controllers usually go long before the NAND.

    12 years is still beyond the lifetime of a typical computer. Even if you do not have component failures you start spending more money on power to run these things than it would cost to replace them with faster, larger capacity newer systems that use less energy for more oompf. Only people with free or nearly free power are immune to this which is not common.

    I'm not saying just throw out all the old systems though, but most people aren't gonna limp along on a 12 year old system as their daily driver. It might be ok for basic web browsing, word processing and email... but not much more than that. If it's a laptop it's gonna be dog slow.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    A mid-range PC (i5 4590 + 750ti) from 2014 would be a perfectly fine computer to use even today, and probably wouldn't draw all that much more power than a modern PC either. Things last longer now that hardware advancements are slowing down. You'd have to use Windows 10 LTSC though because driver support for Linux has been discontinued, lol.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago

    That was a long article to essentially say there isn't a problem.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    XDA dev articles are complete trash

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago

    Windows 11 sleep/hibernate is garbage. I will regularly pull out a hot laptop from my backpack with a nearly dead battery. This used to be my problem with Ubuntu and now Ubuntu handles it just fine.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago

    the culprit is actually probably "fast startup" which writes a hibernate file every shutdown. every "normal" 'shutdown'... close programs, logoff, hibernate, power off. this feature is unnecessary on systems with ssd but it continues to be enabled by default. it was created in the days of old to make hdd systems appear to boot up faster by not actually starting up windows on every power on.

    hibernate isn't enabled by default.

    the other writer of hibernate data, hybrid sleep, doesn't even exist on a newer system that uses 'modern standby'.. but is enabled by default on desktops that do not.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago

    Hibernation technically does this to any SSD. It's not just Windows 11.

    Writing the entire contents of RAM to disk increases the wear on the SSD. The risk goes up if your SSD is nearly full and wear-levelling has to move more data around: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_amplification#Wear_leveling

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    Thai is rather different from how Sleep works

    No, that's (proofread anyone?) one of three modes: to disk, to RAM, hybrid.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Might explain why, for like a decade now, my computer will never stay asleep or in hibernation or whatever the hell. Always just wakes up by itself. Luckily SSDs are so fast that I just turn the thing off when I'm not using it now, but it's still annoying.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    I read tech article the other day where the engineer had made several LLM calls and over engineered controlling a smart home light. Then wrote a massive corporate ridden psychoses article about it like he was delivering the word of God.

    I can't remember what company had posted it. One of the search vendors I think but it was not cool. It's like everyone got laid off and the only people left is some execs nephew that's "good at computers".

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    I dont believe this would have any impact, consumers just aren't ever getting near the level of r/w that would put the drive into failure.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I wonder if sleep has much of an effect if any

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Normally sleep wouldn't affect it, because it just keeps the ram powered and doesn't write to the SSD.

    However I think windows will quietly hibernate if the computer has been asleep too long. At least on laptops it will automatically hibernate after a few hours of sleep, or after a % of battery is used.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    'hybrid sleep' does write the hibernate file before going into 'sleep mode'. if you have an older system or one that doesn't use 'modern standby' and you have an ssd, you might want to double-check that setting in your power scheme advanced settings.

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