... Announced on a social media site owned by a man who encouraged Pogroms and generates CSAM for profit.
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I'm not entirely sure how that's panning out in Aus (a quick search suggests it's a flop, but the sources aren't great). I think the general consensus is that it's not as enforceable as they hoped.
We are moving towards an era of a more locked down web in the UK. The main flag here is "robust age verification" - i.e. we're moving from "you must provide ID to view adult material on social media" to "you must provide ID to use social media".
One can quickly see "your id must be retained and linked to your account to reduce crime" and "any officer of the law may view this ID to better support crime reduction" slipping in over the next 20 years or so.
Overall, this feels like another Trojan horse to move towards a China-style de-anonymised web. Bad move all around really.
We are moving towards an era of a more locked down web in the UK. The main flag here is “robust age verification” - i.e. we’re moving from “you must provide ID to view adult material on social media” to “you must provide ID to use social media”.
And then from there to you must provide ID to use your device and eventually you can only run (state-approved OS) on your device, assuming thin clients tied to rented servers, which would be then tied to your ID, don't take over and kill off personal computing first.
those kids socialising other ways. social media isnt socializing anyway
Of course! Whyever didn't the bullied queer kids or the kids in abusive households or the kids living in remote areas think of that? I bet they'd feel so silly if you told them they should just find support networks elsewhere 🤦♀️
there were support networks before the giant social media companies. and they didnt harvest your data!
In a lot of cases (like the ones I already mentioned!!) there weren't!!!
sure there was. you dont need big corporations to have support networks on the internet
Believe it or not, those support networks on the old internet were still using social media. Whether or not a medium for interacting with other people socially is owned by a big corporation has no bearing on whether or not it is a kind of social media, and it hasn't escaped my notice that your shifting of the goalposts here has not made any actually existing policy proposals aimed at getting youths off it any less harmful in any meaningful sense.
people hosted their own forums. that didnt require big companies. im not shifting any goalposts. you are simping for big companies who harvest your data and aim to keep you addicted and in echo chambers. all to sell ads that tell you you arent good enough as you are, to sell you stuff.
You're right, and it's failure will be the excuse to deprive us all of more of our privacy and autonomy.
you mean we have privacy now? you know these social media companies already gave info on you even if you dont sign up.
its good if social media companies cant get kids into doomscrolling
It’s not about that though is it? There’s a world of difference in SM companies knowing what I like to look at (Tools and steam engines mostly) and them having access to my actual address, my actual date of birth, my actual current face…
Do you even know the extent of things they know and what that information allows them to derive about you? They know the patterns of life of billions of people. You're just a pattern to match with everyone else just like you.
They don't have a copy of my passport and a video of me holding it. They also don't have a 3D scan of my face, which is what all these age verification companies want from you. They literally use AI while you are filming yourself to 3D scan your face for the Palantir database.
dont use social media then. the less that use it the better
If I can still access your profile an hour from now and it's not deleted, you're full of shit.
It's been 7 now.
You were in the background of a picture uploaded to the net. You are shadow profiled. This problem doesn't go away because you've turned away from it to bury your head in the sand.
If only I could be this naive. First of all this isn't going to do much to prevent kids from getting online unless the measures to prevent it become absolutely oppressive. And secondly the bare minimum check requires you to give even me information to the social media companies. And I guarantee they won't be held accountable if kids find a way to bypass whatever measures get put in place. And of course adults are just as addicted to it as kids but I guess they don't matter.
If the goal was to reduce the amount of people addicted to social media the solution would be to regulate how social media functions not regulate access to social media. What is being suggested is stupid. You can't ban things on the internet.
They don't care if kids do since that isn't the purpose, just the excuse.
you cant ban things but somehow you can regulate? lol
You can't ban car crashes. You can regulate car manufacturers to install seatbelts to minimize injury.
you ban under 16 from driving
So what's your point? That cars don't need a seatbelt because we've banned kids from driving? Actually what you're doing is just proving my point. For starters that ban doesn't stop 16 and under from driving, it's just something that will be used to punish someone after it has happened. At best it's a deterrent because law-abiding citizens (including children) are less likely to break the law but I've personally seen kids take a car for a joyride and crash into someones yard so the ban isn't going to stop anyone who really wants to go and drive. And more importantly it doesn't really address the core problem which are collisions and crashes. Despite the ban adult people still end up in crashes. What does help are all sorts of regulations that car manufacturers have to adhere to make sure that the damage is minimized. Instead of having your brains splattered all across the road you might end up with a concussion instead.
And the same applies to social media. Banning kids from social media isn't going to do anything about the addiction or mental health problems social media causes to people. It won't even stop kids from using social media because kids are smart and if they want they will find a way around the ban. Now I'll compromise a bit and say that banning kids from social media isn't the worst idea because kids are more impressionable and social media might have a much bigger effect on a young mind. But if the goal is to improve the mental health of kids you also have to target the social media companies and regulate them to make sure their impact on mental health is minimized. Not only would that help kids but that would also help adults.
You have the means, ways and most importantly, it is still legal to obtain privacy, though, right?
For now. We've already seen behaviors become culturally suspect simply because they became uncommon. Not too far from vilification from there, then fear mongering, then criminalizing. I worry the value of us not having privacy is too profitable to withstand the effort to remove it.
We have more than we will and for some of us, who made the sacrifices and took steps, more than others.
I'm in Australia and it's shit for everyone. The whole thing was basically conceived by SportsBet so they could advertise on social media with impunity.
My kids are on more social media platforms than I am. So are all their friends. It hasn't slowed anything in that regard.
I can say, none of the shady bootleg porn sites have implemented blocking. So there's always that.
I've survived so far without doing a face scan or ID check. Most of my social media accounts are over 16 years old anyway.
Next 20 years? Next year pal. Not just the police either. Just because they don't tell you about it doesn't mean it won't happen sooner. You could organize to try and stop it, just a thought.
Already a member of the EFF, and I teach privacy to my students and coworkers already.
It's more a rearguard than a fight at this point - most Brits are too distracted to care.
Just a heads up, the other one ( teyrnon from shitjustworks) who commented to you, promoted strongmans and such authoritarian measures, to fight authoritarianism.
You guys and us both in the US. I know it. We can win, if we organize. We are set against each other, but that is only because we don't have a populist leader.
"If it continues long enough, even a reign of terror may become a fondly remembered period. People believe they want justice and wise government but, in fact, what they really want is an assurance that tomorrow will be very much like today." - Terry Pratchett
It's a good quote, and it tells you a lot about the idea of organising to forcefully change things. Change comes through education, patience, kindness, and self-sacrifice; it comes from teaching people that tomorrow can really be better. It's never quick, it's rarely (if ever) a great leader who brings it about, and it's never such leaders who pay the price.
I bought a BlackBerry in 2007/2008, and to get on Facebook I needed to show my ID in an o2 shop. This is all that is required. This is suspicious in the very least.
I tried to visit a porn site from Australian VPN server and was prompted with age verification bs.
"Oh no, this is terrible" cry the social media sites, while working out just how much your passport details and home address are worth to advertisers.
Pove you're not a child so your data can be sold to advertisers so they can continue to sell you stuff.
It's not just advertisers by a long shot, they aren't even the main customers in most respects now. Governments want all of that information and buy it, as do other commercial interests, including security consultants and contractors like Palantir.
Governments can use go betweens to buy the information too, China for instance, is likely getting every single piece of information sold by data brokers. The entire thing is a joke, on us, because it's not about the kids, it's about locking down the internet and crafting social scores based on everything we have said or done online and off run through half baked ai threat detection.
Starmer is a fascist cunt that will hand the government to openly fascist cunts, but yay, go team! /s
Maybe ban algorithmically-delivered content? So, for example, consider YouTube. The only way to get content would be to search for videos or to subscribe to individual channels. You can still have a user-curated experience, but that curation must be actively done by the user. This would at least prevent feed algorithms selecting for engagement and rage.
I would rather target the worst practices of social media companies in general, rather than try and keep kids from them. It's not like adults aren't harmed by this stuff either.
This is my biggest issue with it.
Social media has become a blight on society on all levels. Not just children.
But, there's a lack of education or push for children, and adults too, to be smarter online. They're just instituting laws and legislation and pushing the onus on corporations to comply.
Sounds good at face value but doesn't factor in smaller companies who are unable to afford the changes needed to comply (resulting in the pulling out of a region) or they institute dodgey 3rd party verification systems that will just on-sell your data.
Then, there's the world of dodgey VPNs that kids and people have rushed to. Also, as other people have said, children have found work arounds for age verification.
So, what's the point? What did we actually achieve? I sometimes defer to the old addage of never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. Sometimes I feel it's more like naievity or good intenaions being controlled by malicious forces.
I don't know.
What I feel though is that it just doesn't feel like it's truly about the children. If it is, there should be a whole lot more factored into this.
Instead it feels like a half baked plan being sold to us as being for the children.
First step would be to ban social media from using algorithm suggestions all together.
how do you enforce this without removing anonymity?
That's the point - you don't.
Another factor is making executives of those companies personally responsible for all the havoc they have created while only thinking of their profits. Do that, make the penalties tough enough, and the problem ia fixed.
UK assuming everyone online is a child unless they are willing to have their passport leaked.
The voters need to understand they aren't doing this to "protect children". They're afraid to vote against it because they'll look like they don't want to protect children. We need to let them know we see through the ruse, and we won't punish them at the polls for voting against this shit, but we will for passing it.
More like to deanonymize anyone who uses social media.
I think there’s a rational argument for saying anonymous social media is what Russia, China and other dictatorships use to undermine and affect public opinion, to be fair.
I’m not saying therefore anonymity shouldn’t be allowed. I’m just saying there’s a nuance here…
Homegrown capitalists and the states they control are far more profligate and effective at social media manipulation than either Russia or China. Don’t forget that it was Facebook and Cambridge Analytica that made Brexit happen, not Russia or China. Although I guess you did say dictatorships, so that includes the dictatorship of capital that rules the west.
It will only be deanonymised for UK citizens though (and any other country that applies some sort of ID verification). Any Russian LLM bot can still spread lies in the internet claiming to be from the UK so no problem solved there.
Worst yet, today it is deanonymisation "because think of the children", tomorrow it is putting people who say "Free palestine" in social media to prison.
anonymous social media is what Russia, China and other dictatorships use to undermine and affect public opinion
You talk from the past. Nowadays bots are less anonymous than real people.

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