Seriously, what's the deal with Traceroute? : meshtastic@mander.xyz

Seriously, what's the deal with Traceroute? (lemmy.dbzer0.com)

submitted 4 months ago by empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/meshtastic@mander.xyz

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I've been trying to use it in my area to get a better idea of what path my packets are taking through the local mesh from different locations, seeing what links are weak and where another repeater might be useful.
But I swear it NEVER works. If there is more than a single hop in between me and my target node (whether it's one I own or not), I never ever get a response. Nodes will be sending me power/environment information actively, and I get it A-OK, but when I try to traceroute-nada.
Once, i mean ONCE, I got a 2-hop response. And I run all my nodes at 7hop TTL since it's very low traffic around here, so it's not that.

My local mesh is not super dense or all that reliable, but messages still go through about 80-90% of the time, so why is the Traceroute module so bad? Is it just that much worse at handling packet failures compared to the message routine?

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[–] Demonmariner@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Based on my experience only: Traceroute works, but only if there is SOLID communication over all hops in the path. I can traceroute through known good paths, but anything marginal and it fails.

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[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 2 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

Yep. Only when direct line of sight have I been successful. And sometimes it still fails for some reason. Like in the same room. Might be the heltecs or something.

Like I can see the signal going out via RTLSDR but then nothing sometimes comes back. Not sure why.

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[–] CCRhode@mander.xyz 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

Only when direct line of sight have I been successful.

I've logged a couple of traceroutes that crossed state lines:

2026-06-23 20:50

Ἀργώ 5749 (Sheboygan, WI) »  26.0 db»
Skiðblaðnir 8ef9 (Sheboygan, WI) » -69.0 db»
W8ZHO Clubhouse Node (Muskegon, MI) »  15.0 db»
Downtown Mkg Router (Muskegon, MI) » -42.0 db»
3rd Ward Repeater (Milwaukee, WI)

3rd Ward Repeater (Milwaukee, WI) » -26.0 db»
W8ZHO Clubhouse Node (Muskegon, MI) » -43.0 db»
Skiðblaðnir 8ef9 (Sheboygan, WI) »  24.0 db»
Ἀργώ 5749 (Sheboygan, WI)@

2026-06-24 03:28

Ἀργώ 5749 (Sheboygan, WI) »  25.0 db»
Skiðblaðnir 8ef9 (Sheboygan, WI) » -63.0 db»
Downtown Mkg Router (Muskegon, MI) » -50.0 db»
MorgMobile (No location) »  -1.0 db»
NED3 Repeater (Milwaukee, WI)

NED3 Repeater (Milwaukee, WI) »   5.0 db»
Downtown Mkg Router (Muskegon, MI) »  -7.0 db»
Skiðblaðnir 8ef9 (Sheboygan, WI) »  23.0 db»
Ἀργώ 5749 (Sheboygan, WI)@

Skiðblaðnir (CLIENT_BASE) and Ἀργώ (CLIENT_MUTE) are collocated so positive SNR is expected. Likewise the positive SNRs within the greater Muskegon area are explicable. Technically, though, Sheboygan, Muskegon, and Milwaukee are each over the horizon from one another so any signal at all (even with greatly negative SNR) is remarkable. Getting a round-trip twice within 24 hours is outstanding. I believe (and I am unanimous in this) that the high temperature gradient over the cool waters of Lake Michigan causes refraction of the radio waves. Thus, the apparent horizon is much farther out than supposed.

Of course, these conditions are exceptional and successful traceroutes even under such conditions are rare.

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[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 1 point 4 months ago

Thats awesome! We have done 7 hops to get to the bay area from central CA. But like you said its VERY rare to get it successful. Ive seen meshcore do better, but its more setup for that sort of thing.

The issue is consistency. Since these devices run at max 1W, a "loud" device like an AC, refrigerator, or some lights can cause issues with the LoRa spectrum. Even sometimes in the same room, I see meshtastic stop working 1/10 times. and it goes to 9/10 if its over 500 ft with trees and such in the way. Just some observations.

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[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com [S] 1 point 4 months ago

Ok, that seems to track then. When I do get my single 2-hop return it's through a link with SNR under -10, so that is probably just not stable enough for the traceroute. Frustrating for sure.

Guess i'll spend another couple hundred on some additional hardware and start coating the hillsides with them lmao

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[–] SpicyAnt@mander.xyz 4 points 4 months ago (8 children)

I had similar issues with Meshtastic's traceroute. Have you tried Meshcore? The design is a bit different in that it keeps the client nodes and repeaters separate, and repeaters are meant to be kept in more stable positions. I bring it up because in Meshcore you can manually select specific pathways to probe and analyze hops in greater detail. If there is an active Meshcore network in your area you might want to give it a try. It runs on the same hardware, so you can flip between systems, but the meshes cannot interact.

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 7 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Meshcore is partially proprietary which makes no longer an option for me personally

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[–] SpicyAnt@mander.xyz 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

Oh, is it? I didn't know. What part is?

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

The mobile apps I believe

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[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

Meshcore-open fixes this. I am an open source maximalist and would not touch meshcore until there was a mobile app that was not proprietary.

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[–] GrumpyBike1020@monero.town 0 points 4 months ago

The Lora radio in these devices is not open source.

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[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com [S] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I've considered Meshcore. There is no Meshcore infrastructure in my area though, and Meshcore is also not ideal for my use case (which is going to involve a lot of mobile GPS tracker use in forest areas without infrastructure nodes, somewhere meshtastic shines a lot brighter).

I'm mostly just peeved that Meshtastic's built in tools don't work very well lol.

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[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 1 point 4 months ago

Meshcore does now have client repeat mode which lets companions repeat like they do in meshtastic, but it does stick you on to a different frequency so that you don't mess with the regular mesh.

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[–] FapFlop@lemmy.world -1 points 4 months ago

Have a look at client repeat mode. May be worth a try. https://blog.meshcore.io/2026/02/13/off-grid-client-repeat-mode

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[–] tabarnaski@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Traceroute uses ICMP echo requests ("pings"), and a lot of public routers have been blocking them since like 7-8 years.

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[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com [S] 10 points 4 months ago

I'm talking about Meshtastic, decentralized P2P messaging using LoRa radio devices. Not the internet.

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 4 months ago

Lost Lemming moment

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[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 1 point 4 months ago

this was my though. people are talking about the quality of the networks and stuff and im thinking. I thought places blocked it so you generally would see you local stuff and then stars and once in awhile backbone things that sorta can't block it because they are to important.

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