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[–] 50 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

Like Dazzle camouflage from WW1 and WW2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage

I wonder if it works...

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  • [–] 50 points 5 months ago (12 children)

    Wait, I've seen that one before!

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  • [–] 83 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    it worked well back then, there are no documented destructions of warships by autonomous drones during world war 2!

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Do birds count as AI? Avian Intelligence did sink some ships

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Did you ignore the V2 (rocket) because it didn't destroy a warship (I didn't fact check this, but it seems likely), or is your definition of an autonomous drone very restrictive?

    Torpedo also should count as an autonomous drone (some were wire guided and not autonomous) and they were sinking warships well before WWII.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    I would rather say that your definition of "autonomous" appears rather wide? I wouldn't call e.g. a heat-seeking or radar-guided missile "autonomous". I would say that "autonomous" implies the drone/missile/torpedo/etc. can somehow adapt to changing conditions rather than follow a simple pre-programmed path.

    You can have very simple "autonomous" systems, for example "Move towards this GPS coordinate, unless you lose connection, in which case fall back to inertial guidance until you either reach the target or re-acquire connection". Another example could be "Home in on the heat signature, unless you lose the signal, in which case execute some planned manoeuvres to re-acquire the signature". Yet another could be "Move towards target, but if you detect that you're being tracked by radar, or detect an AA launch, conduct evasive manoeuvres / move closer to the ground, etc."

    All the above imply that the drone / missile / torpedo / whatever is capable of responding to changes in the surrounding environment. To my knowledge, there were no WWII-era weapons capable of doing that. A typical WWII-torpedo was "Start the propeller and keep going at maximum speed until the detonator is triggered or you run out of fuel and sink." I can't really see how that would count as autonomous.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    "Start the propeller and keep going at maximum speed until the detonator is triggered or you run out of fuel and sink."

    That is a very simple program. Heat sinking is modifying behavior.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    I wouldn't say things like proximity triggers or primitive homing tech like heat seekers are autonomous. Heat seekers don't adapt to changing situations, but follow a completely mechanical "go towards the warmest spot" path. Being autonomous would mean the could react to the "warmest spot" either disappearing or moving in an unphysical way (suddenly appearing somewhere it's shouldn't be, as can happen with e.g. flares).

    Basically, if the weapon has a single thing it can do (move towards hot thing), and no way of adapting if that thing doesn't work as expected, I have a hard time calling it autonomous.

    I wouldn't call a simple robot-vacuum autonomous either for that matter. If the instruction set is "go forward until you hit an obstacle, then rotate 15 degrees clockwise and repeat", I don't really see that as "adapting to changing circumstances".

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    The behavior stays the same during heat seeking (go towards the heat). The direction might change as it keeps to it's behavior (since the heat moves)

    Autonomous means having the ability carry out task and adapt to new information. You are ignoring the second part.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago*

    Torpedoes really revolutionized Naval Warfare. I remember reading about the Japanese figuring out to use oxygen as the propellant and got way better results right before World War ii.

    I believe the Russians have a nuclear torpedo. What the fucking good that is I don't know suicide mission for the ship.

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  • [–] 21 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    Does it work? Is this like drawing a mustache on a kid? I want to believe it couldn't work, but if they're using AI to detect trucks then who the hell knows?

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I have no idea, but I have some supposition: no it won't work.

    Like others have said warships used to do something similar.

    The naive idea is a WWII concept: that the hard lines make it more difficult to see your heading from a distance.

    The problem is drones don't "see" the way people do.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I remember when facial recognition technology began to be mass deployed, it was possible to trick those algorithms with special makeup. The idea of this camouflage is to trick ai drones in the same way. But it will not work with modern ai technologies, or if drone uses other targeting system like thermal cameras, or if drone simply being operated by person.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    Around like the zeros to 2010 at least the facial recognition was pretty lacking. A band aid on the face could defeat it.

    Nowadays though it's gotten better and they do other stuff by like analyzing your gait, obviously the eyes if you get close enough, speech patterns.

    Basically we just have to stop these people that control the information because they have too much of it. But that is another story.

    But not long after 2010 I seen recall a bunch of fugitives getting caught and I am willing to bet it was because of facial recognition.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    It makes it harder to see the edges and so can't determine the objects shape, and when moving potentially how fast or in which precise direction it is moving in.

    LIDAR on the other hand doesn't care for dazzle paint.

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  • [–] 19 points 5 months ago

    Is dazzlepaint making a comeback thanks to AI??

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago

    Oh how I missed you Dazzle camo. Gone for 80 years but back again.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago

    Dazzle paint. Everything old is new again.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago

    First turtle tanks, now zebra trucks.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago

    Drone's brain: "Oh no, a zebra..."

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago

    Is this what capthchas have been training AI for?

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  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago

    While many of you are shouting "Go Ukraine" or "Go Russia", I am shouting "Go, the return of dazzle camouflage!"

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Nice of Russia to barcode their inventory for better identification. Wouldn't the hard black and white edges make it easier for digital identification?

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago

    Slaps on QR code that reads, "If you can read this you're gay".

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    If nothing else it will make it easier to distinguish military vehicles.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    [tweaking the algorithm to target black and white boxes]

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    The limeys did a bunch of shit like this on ships in World War II too confused bombers or whatever. It's actually really cool, I saw it on Reddit I can't find it now maybe I could I'm not going to though.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    That was referred to as "dazzle camouflage" and the idea was to throw off the aim of German U-boats by making it more difficult to determine the size and orientation of the ship from brief periscope observation. They would them not be able to compute the correct fire control solution for their torpedos.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    Dazzleshits

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