The vast data centers that power artificial intelligence are so energy hungry that they’re heating up their surroundings, according to new research. It’s an alarming finding given the number of data centers is predicted to explode over the next few years.

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[–] 71 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I'm not sure what you guys are worried about. All that extra heat will just dissipate into the atmosphere and eventually radiate into space. It's not like there's anything in the atmosphere that would interfere with this cycle... right?

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    [–] 107 points 7 months ago (25 children)

    Years ago, I was driving through NY city-ish. We pulled over in a rest area and I saw a sign about turning your engine off. I thought it was the stupidest thing I had ever seen, as did many other people apparently as their cars were idling. Then I got out of my car. I was wrong. The heat was insane. I couldn’t wrap my little head around it. I started doing the engineer math thing because it didn’t make sense.

    Doesn’t surprise me at all these massive data centers are creating little heat domes. The cars were bad enough, and they are a fraction of the energy.

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  • [–] 61 points 7 months ago* (21 children)

    100% of electricity burned turns to heat save light that leaves earth. Gigawatt data center? That's ~650,000 1500w space heaters.

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  • [–] 69 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    i work for a large power company, we have a data center customer that have as many equally sized cooling towers as one of our nuclear power plants.

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    Pretty soon you’ll just have nuclear plants just to power data centers.

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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Didn't Microsoft try to pay for a nuclear plant to be recommissioned just to power a data centre or something?

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    There have been several data centers that have bought nuclear plants, including Three Mile Island, they're going to fire that bitch back up, also the Regulators have been disempowered. Propublica on the last part if I recall.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Nuclear plants to power data centers to make ai slop to make more need for data centers to feed us ai ad slop...when does it fucking end?

    I hope some vigilantes start taking action against these damn wastes of space.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    The disease is late stage capitalism, the symptom is a mad dash to trade our natural resources for energy and pollution. The mad dash will continue as long as we're bleeding humanity to keep the shareholders high and dry.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Come to think of it, you would think power generation would perceptively increase the temperature in the surrounding air and while I have heard of nuclear plants making bays or rivers a few degrees warmer near the plant I don't think it's even been described as this bad.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Putting on my ME hat. Power systems are designed to extract the most amount of energy of their fuel sources. This leads for waste heat to not be significantly above ambient temperatures as they have extracted about as much as they can from it.

    I assume now many high end servers are now water cooled, so that probably improves their cooling performance of their system, vs the older ways of aisle cooling and having hot and cold sides of the rack.

    But unlike power stations, I don’t think the data centers have incentives or the ability to extract much useful work from their waste heat, so I’m sure they are dumping it as fast as they can plus the waste heat from all the secondary systems, cooling, water pumps, etc. are just compounding the local air temps.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    You'll need the same number of cooling towers for the computers too. All the energy created by the reactor will turn into heat, essentially doubling the amount of cooling needed.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I don't know why they don't use geothermal cooling, especially with the footprint these things have. Compared to everything else it wouldn't increase the cost that much, depending on how they do it, and even if it didn't cover all the cooling needs it would cut down a lot of it.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    I have no idea, but I suspect geothermal cooling doesn't work as well at this scale. I suspect heat in the ground spreads far slower than the air moves. Since these are running 24/7, this means it'll reach an elevated equilibrium temperature that will be higher than if a residential house did it. I guess if the footprint is large enough it'd be fine, but that's probably really expensive.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Isn't the largest data center currently something like 100MW? So "only" 0.1GW...65.000 space heaters is still insane though.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    we were asked 400MW for a new data center, we told them 100MW is the max we could provide for now, and increase later, we have a new natural gas plant soon to enter operation to replace two retiring coal plants, but looks like we're postponing decommission targets to keep demand

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    I've had a pretty longstanding belief that a lot of the AI push is to inflate energy demand, as we increasingly add more renewables. In order to keep dirty energy "creating revenue" we need an energy sink to offset any added energy. I think this was crypto, and then NFTs. Those both faded away as soon as the AI stuff started being pushed. I don't believe this is totally a coincidence.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    There's 33kWh worth of energy in a gallon of gasoline, and they use 0.3gal/hour when idling, so cars are pumping out 11kWh of heat just sitting there....that's a surprisingly large amount of heat.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    33 kWh/gallon * 0.3 gallon/h = 10 kWh/h = 10 kW

    But units aside, that is really nothing. The car itself already has about 3 m² area or about 3 kW of sunlight. The issue is the CO2 (globally) and pollution from the car (locally, causing smog etc.).

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  • [–] 33 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Coming to a neighborhood near you, bringing the noise, heat, and higher electric bills.

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I sometimes work in the building that's in the thumbnail of the article, that's crazy to see.

    But that being said, data centers are definitely a negative for the environment and using them for bogus AI nonsense is horrible.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Would be nice if they built them in cold climates and piped the heat to houses and buildings like the steam era of old.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Tax them enough to install geothermal heat pumps in the surrounding homes.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    No one uses in ground heat pumps, especially not existing units where you have to dig up the yard, but regular air source heat pumps are still good enough by far.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Depends on the type. Newer ones drill a column and put the loop into that. They have to dig deeper, but it means you don't have to dig up the entire yard for loops of tubing and means that you can install them in locations with limited yard space.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    "Like the steam era of old"? 🤣

    What you're describing is called district heating and is totally a thing in Europe. There actually are data centers in Europe that contribute to their local district heating grid.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yep it's how I heat my place, though 40-60% of the heat still comes from natural gas unfortunately.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Yep, that's exactly how it is for us. I really hope that our local district heating company get's tfe shift to renewals done because CO2 prices are rising in the next years and district heating is expensive enough as it is....

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Demolish all this useless shit to the ground.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    plug the cooling vents of those crapfactories

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    If that 16° in foreign members numbers or freedom units?

    Edit: autocorrect error

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Why don't they build glass hydroponic vegetable gardens? The heating is free.

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    Oh, 16 degrees Fahrenheit. Still, thats quite a bit.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Only a handful of countries use Fahrenheit, but they're still too arrogant to add the unit. I get not including Celsius because of the target audience, and dropping the unit in conversation but this isn't that

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    metric is so much more simpler,

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    For temperature, not really. Both Celsius and Fahrenheit are useful for different things.

    Fahrenheit is great for what we feel (it's related to body temperature for the high end, and the freezing point of brine on 0).

    Celsius is great for cooking, or applications where you care about what water is doing (0 is freezing, 100 is boiling).

    Neither uses different scales, like other metric units increasing by 10s (at least, I've never seen anything like kC). If you're doing that, you're using Kelvin, which is a fundamental base temperature, where 0 is actually 0, which makes more sense for physics and math, but is less useful for what we feel.

    I think the US should switch, just to make it easier to communicate, and other metric scales actually are better. C and F are both equally useful for different things though. Neither is actually a better scale.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    As someone who grew up with Fahrenheit, it's an arbitrary scale. 0 is the "coldest thing" that he could create in a lab at the time, basically a bath of ice and salt water, 100-ish was supposed to be the temperature of a healthy human body. They are unrelated things. It has nothing to do with "what we feel", people only think that because they grew up with it. The same can be said for all imperial measurements because there is no other way to say that 12 inches to a foot and 3 feet to a yard is "intuitive".

    Celsius putting freezing at 0 and boiling at 100 (at sea level) are related to each other because it's measuring the temperature of water the entire time and then setting that as a the literal metric we use to measure other things.

    I switched to Celsius for a couple of years and after going through a couple of seasons or two I had an intuitive feeling for what a value would feel like. It made perfect sense. I only stopped using it because my phone switched back one day for some reason and I was tired of having to convert to freedom units to avoid getting odd reactions from people.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    They are unrelated things. It has nothing to do with "what we feel"

    I didn't say it did. I just said it's more useful for that. Whether it was on purpose or not, 100 and 0 are when it's dangerous. Before those it can still be, but beyond them you really need to be careful.

    Celsius is also arbitrary. There's no particular reason water, at sea level, is used for the scale. It was just chosen. If you're measuring water, it's great. Otherwise, there's nothing that makes it "better" than F. It's not easier to convert to scale to higher or lower numbers or anything, which is what the metric system usually has an advantage with. They're both just scales.

    I've been playing Stationeers a lot lately. (It's a game about managing a station on another planet, and simulates liquids and gasses really well, following the ideal gas law, and phase changes, and all that good stuff. I highly recommend it, and the devs are great.) In that you use Celsius and Kelvin, with you often needing kK or even larger. It wouldn't make sense to use F, because it's hard to switch between F and K, but C and K are the same, with K just being 274.15 higher. I have no issue with C, but this type of use is the one place it's better, and no one I know would ever have to do this.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    If only we could harness the energy of people bitching about not using Celsius we could power the whole world.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    Ahaha. I'm not even bitching about that. I'm doing that pedantic thing that physics teachers do where they point out the number without the units isn't correct

    That said, if the US just used SI units...

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    This is perfectly timed because WA states legislature ended their session this year and decided not to take up the topic of regulating data centers. Even better knowing that the PNW just had the warmest winter in history, record low snowpack and nearly every month a new mega data center is opening.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    As a lifelong datacenter tech it really sucks seeing what monster this has all become. And I don't know what else I would do to pay the bills.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    I used to work in automation within the auto industry. Once I became aware of the damage I was doing by being an enabler, that shit began to eat away at my mental health. I knew I had to make an exit plan when all of my day dreams while working there involved Molotov cocktails.

    I don't envy anyone who has to deal with that kind of mental load. Knowing the harm you're causing while wanting the opposite but still needing to survive the next day, week or month.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Sigh… wasting power, wasting nand chips, hard drives and for what? Aiding climate change.

    But at least we can have a hallucinating chatbot.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Seeing this kind of news hurts. I’ve had a lifelong interest in computers and technology. I’ve made a career of it and live fairly comfortably because of it. But this makes me certain the positives don’t outweigh the negatives. And I wish we could go back to the 90s/2k when we’re certain this tech would lead to the betterment of the world. Sort of bearing my heart here but technology sucks now.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    You expressed my own thought better than I could! 'member when Internet was that awesome thing full of promises that allowed people to share knowledge all over the world? Now we just swim in toxicity of all forms. What an absolute mess we made of my favorite technology ever. I poured my life in it, it's the only thing that ever paid the bills, and now after being laid off for too long I barely have the energy to look for a job because I'll hate it anyway.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Just need 1 km wide copper heatsinks

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Where do you think the heat from that heatsink eventually goes? The only way to get "rid" of it is into the air or the water.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago

    The graphs in the paper show the temperature 1 km away from the data center being 8°C higher and attribute that to heat emitted by the data center. That should start the alarm bells that something isn't right with this paper.

    Here's a post going into the problems with it;

    https://blog.andymasley.com/p/data-centers-heat-exhaust-is-not?open=false#%C2%A7my-core-claim-this-is-literally-just-measuring-hot-surfaces-of-new-buildings-and-the-soil-and-land-around-those-new-buildings-probably-hasnt-changed-temperature-at-all

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Big brain moment. If we stop monitoring it, then problem doesn't exist.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    We could soon heat entire countries with the heat from these doomsday factories

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