Grid going down?
I think the last time I experienced that was 15 years ago. Even then it was only for a couple of hours.
Like it's such a non event as to not even bother trying to fix it.
Grid going down?
I think the last time I experienced that was 15 years ago. Even then it was only for a couple of hours.
Like it's such a non event as to not even bother trying to fix it.
The disadvantage is that you still lose power when the grid goes down, even if you have storage. Unless you run parallel circuits, and your system is island/black start capable.
I'm not sure how that is a disadvantage compared to being on the power grid? If you are on the power grid, and the grid goes down, you also don't have power.
What is this a disadvantage compared to?
My point is that with this basic setup (I run 2 kWp) is that you still lose power when the grid goes down, so your relationship to the grid is not totally changed. The only thing you notice are smaller power bills.
The disadvantage is compared to a insular/black start capable setup which is more expensive/complicated (and needs a licensed electrician to be legal) but lets you run on battery when the grid goes down.
It is valid that a grid failure proof system is a bigger change to relationship with the grid.
But as someone with a 10x cost difference between on-peak and off-peak pricing, stored power certainly changes how I interact with the grid. My time of use use, and therefore my family's own habits, are drastically changed. Not doing laundry 16h00-21h00 with a toddler was a rough go. So yes, my relationship with the grid has totally changed; in ways more than jsut my bill.
Colleagues, users of Lemmy, please do not downvote this poster. Most solar power installations in use today are grid-following, so it's correct to point out: if the grid drops, most solar inverters stop. Your average Huawei is not capable of operating in island mode. It needs a reference frequency to follow.
On most days, this is not a problem. The operator of the electrical grid will do everything to keep it up.
However, it's a real risk if your electrical grid should get bombed, or pelted with ice rain.
Myself I have a different kind of a solar power system, and it's not commonplace. It's easy and doable, there is plenty of instruction available, but it's less profitable.
panels -> DC -> charging controllers -> DC -> interrupter -> battery bank -> balancers and fuses -> still DC --> local consumers, among them an inverter --> finally some AC --> possibly the grid
To get a safe system, ask a specialist or learn about balancers, interrupters and fuses. Everything is DIY-able with a willingness to learn. Avoid dangerously high voltage if you aren't certified to work with electrical power.
Do you have a pointer to such DIY home solar? I was planning to build my next system from Victron components, but this could be an interesting alternative.
Do you have any directions where to go for this, traveler?
It depends on the country one lives in, because to connect equipment to the grid, it has to be certified in that country.
As a good starting point, I would recommend to look at inverters sold as "hybrid inverters", especially if the manufacturer advertises "off-grid" capability with automatic switch-over.
Here is one, from the manufacturer whose devices (older versions, no longer manufactured) I use. There are many others. If the user's manual explains the process of automatic switch-over to off-grid (island) mode, then the inverter will provide autonomous power in case of grid collapse.
https://maximumsolar.online/product/hybridv2-6048/
...and here is another one, from a different company. Anything that becomes autonomous upon loss of grid freqency (disconnects from the grid and leaves only sensors to read its status) and then gracefully handles the return of grid frequency (does not connect before synchronization has been achieved).
https://www.qoltec.com/product/qoltec-hybrid-solar-inverter-off-grid-24kw-80a-mppt-sinus
Thanks! I'm in SW desert USA, on a large piece of land so I was thinking of just putting on the a scaffold structure on the ground instead of on the roof. In the past looked at the ability to put panels over my small garden to act as a shade, but I think the structure needed to hold them would be prohibitively expensive.
Its pretty common to have a ups built in to switch to batteries. Can't export power but still lights on
Solar makes it much less likely for the grid to crash anyway. ESPECIALLY closer to the source (avoids transmission loss and transformer strain)
Renewable power generation is not dispatchable, so large fraction of it in generation make grid stabilization interventions more frequent.
Unless your country has a sane generation strategy you should plan for more rather than less power outage events in future. Fortunately commercial home solutions for that exist and are getting cheaper.
For the plug in panels would it be possible to swap the plug into a battery that isn’t connected to the grid during an emergency? Or is the “plug in” bit more complicated than I’m imagining?
Around me (unrelated to war) they’re offering rebates for home batteries and generators to keep some basics up during an outage.
It's possible, but needs to be engineered for safety, and that design/testing/certification will increase the cost and complexity.
You can have solar panels and a battery totally off grid, where the big battery just acts as a generator, with its own inverter creating AC power for anything you plug in. That's really simple and cheap, but isn't safe for connecting to and powering a grid-connected house circuit. So anything you want to power with one of these systems needs to be plugged into outlets that only get their power from these batteries.
You can add a grid-following inverter that safely matches the grid frequency AC, so that you can use the solar power you collect in your own normal home circuit, to power your own household appliances. But the simplest design here is a grid following inverter that doesn't work when the grid isn't connected. It can only add to something that already exists and can't do things on its own.
If you want to do both, where it can work without grid power and it follows the grid when the grid power is on, you'll have to design a system that can switch between the two modes without delivering power where it's not expected or generating power that conflicts with the grid's AC waveform. Making it automated, like an UPS system, is even more complicated.
It's not impossible, or even that difficult, it just does add complexity and the engineering tradeoff is always the question of "what problem does this solve, and is solving that problem important enough to devote these resources to it?" For anyone on a reliable electric grid where power outages are rare, the answer is usually no.
The grid-tied inverters need to have a grid voltage and frequency to be in a certain defined range orelse they switch off (this behaviour can be changed via firmware for some inverters). In theory you could use a pure sinus UPS for that, but in practice it is not designed to receive power on the outlet side and will overload/burn out.
There are specific battery/diesel backed solar grid-tied inverter solutions which can smoothly separate and reconnect from the grid during outages while providing power to the consumers. These are far more expensive than simple grid-tied solar inverters.
Some, perhaps most, balcony solar use a powerstation as a buffer to the wall outlet. While whole house sharing may get turned off in outage, you can still move the power to where its needed
Who sells good parts for this? Looking at a lot of batteries and it's like £1 of energy storage for £3k. Would need to fully charge and discharge it well over 3000 times to pay for its self and that doesn't count the solar panels either.
I have heard of people talk of much shorter payback periods so I assume better must exist and I am just looking at the wrong things? Or go for a smaller battery and just make use of the solar power during the day and the battery only holds a fairly small capacity but balances loads a bit.
You're forgetting that those batteries are super useful in case of power outages and to time your energy release to the grid when it's most valuable for you. It's also beneficial to switch to an electric plan that has on/off peak rates, so you can charge the battery during off peak, and utilise it during peak periods. kWh pricing can be as much as 2-3x difference (depending on how you look at it, e.g. Octopus offers 0.11ppkWh off-peak and 0.35ppkWh peak rates, but they have a solar package too that offers optimised export rates).
I'd also say, go for a smaller, modular battery, and upgrade bit by bit as you need, that way the investment returns are visible sooner.
You're forgetting that those batteries are super useful in case of power outages
I know about off peak rates but that makes it even longer to pay for its self as you are only saving some of the energy cost rather than all of it. Does eliminate solar panel needs but still looking at a decade or more and panels are comparably cheap.
Power cuts are so rare here that it might be dead before the next powercut, and never had one last for more than minutes.
No no no, you got me wrong.
You're saving a lot more because:
At the end of the day you're balancing out your incoming and outgoing power - and with the battery you can be even completely grid-free (albeit still connected as a backup), if needed.
I don't really have many of those whenever power usages though. I don't need to charge a car, don't have a dishwasher, washing machine runs on low heat so doesn't really use that much power. My heating/hot water is done by a heat pump which would require a house battery as I can't just plug it into something myself.
Pretty sure a lot of my usage is from long continuous things. I could plug my home office into a portable (or barely portable with the size of some of them) battery and charge that with some solar panels in the garden. Use some extension leads to connect up at least the bedroom and living room too. The problem is that I haven't found a cost effective way to do so even though I otherwise want to.
If this is as you say, your power needs are minimal so your battery needs are too and your complaint is a bit odd. You're making it sound like your overnight needs are basically lights and then you could almost get by with the minor batteries I had in my van (that were excessive). I suspect you're not being clear with your situation
There are different setups I have thought of and tbh mostly looked at battery only. So 4kWh = £1 normally or £0.20 off peak then you are saving £0.80/day.
But yeah, solar you can also use power while the sun is shining and the batteries are 100%. Mostly looked at stuff like jackery, anker solix, ecoflow. Can you have them plugged into the mains but they will only use the mains when the battery is empty rather than using the mains to charge the battery? Then the battery doesn't have to be as large to still benefit from it and it can balance it out a bit through the day.
Downside is that the benefits of it might be harder to calculate.
I know this is a Buy European community, but when it comes to batteries, aliexpress is still your best bet. You can build your own or buy a pack that is ready to plug and play
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