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[–] 175 points 7 months ago (40 children)

I thought the point of Christianity was that everyone deserves mercy?

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  • [–] 105 points 7 months ago* (18 children)

    Theologically speaking, it's the opposite: nobody deserves mercy, but God gives it to them anyways. But you'd have to open a Bible to know that, which none of these ghouls have.

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  • [–] 44 points 7 months ago (16 children)

    I thought that was no one deserves God's mercy. Not that the mewling masses don't deserve mercy from each other.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (15 children)

    Are we really quibbling over the logic in a make-believe book about sky daddy?

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  • [+] 9 points 7 months ago (14 children)
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Do you dare not learn all you can with what miniscule time we have here?

    in fact I do, which is why I don't waste times on unprovable, untestable, pointless garbage that's overwhelmingly been used to manipulate the species.

    But have fun with your skycake.

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  • [+] 1 point 7 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I feel religion and spirituality inherently play a large role

    then stop calling yourself agnostic.

    please, it's embarrassing to us both.

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  • [+] 1 point 7 months ago* (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    oops had you confused with the other pedant

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Yeah it's pretty sad to see comments such as this. It's a terribly unpoetic way to live life, cutting themselves off from 90% of the intellectual discourse produced during humanity's history :(

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah it’s pretty sad to see comments such as this. It’s a terribly unpoetic way to live life, cutting themselves off from 90% of the intellectual discourse produced during humanity’s history :(

    bwahahaha you think religion represents 90% of the intellectual discourse?

    ah jeeze that's sad for you

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    you think religion represents 90% of the intellectual discourse?

    No, i'm saying 90% of intellectual discourse is at least influenced by religion because it comes from people who are religious. Atheism being significant is a very modern phenomenon so if you're going to study anything in history, philosophy, art or science, it's gonna be full of religious people acting out their religious beliefs.

    Even today something like 4 out of 5 people are religious, and most atheists are influenced by that common culture in some way. Dismissing the whole cultural reservoir as fairy tale is a terrible footgun, it can only make everything confusing. Everybody else is pulling from it and you refuse to even acknowledge it, that's not gonna work.

    You're going to read poetry but it will make no sense and the climax won't land because you can't empathize with the religious sentiment. You're going to read greek philosophy but it will feel drawn out and theoretical because you can't empathize with the religious imperatives of the author. And i say this as a strict agnostic, i'm really not the kind of guy you'll find in a church. But you can't get to the meat of most intellectual discourse if you dismiss religion, just like you can't get to the meat of most physics if you dismiss math.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    No, i’m saying 90% of intellectual discourse is at least influenced by religion because it comes from people who are religious

    why not suggest that all of intellectual discourse is influenced by primatism because it comes from people who are primates?

    what a goofy argument.

    and the idea that you posit atheists can't enjoy poetry because the poetry relies on religious appreciation is hideous.

    you religious nutbags will attempt to co-opt anything. it's fucking gross. stop calling yourself an agnostic if you spout this shit, it's like a nazi saying they're strict socialists.

    But you can’t get to the meat of most intellectual discourse if you dismiss religion, just like you can’t get to the meat of most physics if you dismiss math.

    ridiculous.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    you know you have the option to just exchange ideas with other humans right ? fucking half cocked pseudo intellectual reaching for insults at the first 3 syllable word. what a bore.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    fucking half cocked pseudo intellectual reaching for insults at the first 3 syllable word.

    it's telling that you think my reply was an insult, but that your flawed premises weren't insulting, and intellectually devoid of any meaning.

    of course you find it boring, most of this discourse has escaped you entirely.

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  • [–] 45 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    The point of Christianity is that if you can convince people that they shouldn't expect any rewards until they die, you get a really compliant set of workers and soldiers who will let you impoverish and mistreat them because "the meek will inherit the earth." You know, after your value has been fully extracted by the owners.

    Christianity went from a cult to a state religion REALLY fast because of this concept.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Only for those who have actually read the book...

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    The problem is what parts you choose to read and focus on. Violent abusers are all about that old testament. The only good Samaritan to them is a dead one. They generally shun the new testament because that's where all the namby pamby you are your brothers keeper stuff comes in.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Oh, the book is horrendous. Cannot recommend.

    But the overarching story of this Jesus character they obsess over, I think that guy had something to say about mercy.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    If you consider the Inquisitor Cycle, people do not. Jesus took revenge after the Romans tried to kill him, and refused to die for anyone's sins. Christianity is based on having no mercy whatsoever.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    It is, if you actually believe in it. Unfortunately practically none of them actually do. And discouragingly, most atheists would love for you to believe that the world would be no better off if they actually believed in and followed the teachings of Jesus. It clearly would be. Does that mean Christianity isn't full of issues? Nope. But it does mean that clearly we'd be better off if people treated each other as they wished to be treated themselves. And yes before the atheists say it, we ALL KNOW this idea is not unique to Christianity. But it's kind of key to that religion for the small minority of Christians who actually give a shit about it.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    And discouragingly, most atheists would love for you to believe that the world would be no better off if they actually believed in and followed the teachings of Jesus.

    What a shallow caricature. I've never met an atheist who didn't basically agree with the teachings of Jesus, even if they didn't believe he existed. But I've met many Christians who seemed completely at odds with them.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago

    What a shallow reading of my comment. This thread is full of people raging about Christianity being an evil cult. So I don't really have to prove that point. Just about any thread on Lemmy where this comes up is the same.

    Not long ago someone flipped out on me for making this point, accusing me of defending the church which I hadn't done in any way. What usually is happening, when people disagree on this, is assumptions are being made about what each party believes. I am sure most atheists would agree with those teachings yes, but online if it comes up you're either a brainwashed Christian or a hardcore atheist who hates Christianity. At least that's how people think of each other. The nuance is erased, and it's a damn shame.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    But it does mean that clearly we’d be better off if people treated each other as they wished to be treated themselves

    This is a Gnostic point of view, and Gnosticism is opposed by Christianity. The Christian view is to treat others how God wants you to treat them.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    I thought the point of Christianity was that everyone deserves mercy?

    There are many sects of "Christianity". A flavor for every world view. These are Christian Nationalists. Their version of it has little to do with such woke things as "mercy". It's mostly an authoritarian view with a strict hierarchy.

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    [–] 60 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    Not sure that’s how Christianity is supposed to work…

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  • [–] 43 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    glances at the history of Christianity

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    The saddest thing about the history of Christianity is just how juxtaposed it is to the actual theology contained in the new testament. Anytime in history a movement actually starts to apply the actual lessons of Christianity they seem to get hunted down by their fellow Christians.

    My dad's side of the family got kicked out of Europe towards the end of the bohemian reformation, and then got kicked out of colonial georgia for accepting slaves and native Americans into the church.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Jesus is a marketing mascot. Expecting the Christian religion to behave according to the teachings of Jesus is like expecting the Nestle corporation to behave according to the teachings of the Quik Bunny.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    There isn't a religion on the planet that hasn't been manipulated and misconstrued to encourage violence against others.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    "a way of thinking". It's not just religion that gets people blood thirsty. It is human nature unfortunately. We need to rise above our animal selves

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, but when a way of thinking is based from the outset around letting authority figures dictate your beliefs it becomes a hell of a lot easier to manipulate. Other ideologies have to at least pretend to be logically coherent. Religion doesn't have that limitation.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    Other ideologies do not have to pretend to be logically coherent. Phrenology and Eugenics were fairly widely accepted by colonial era Europeans and had no logical coherence. White supremacy continues to be a worldview/ideology for a not so small minority even today and has no real logical coherence.

    Any ideology can gain widespread adoption if it fits with what people want to believe.

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  • [–] 47 points 7 months ago

    Oh man, he really wants to subject himself to that? Well good for him, he deserves no mercy

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  • [–] 40 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Don't cry when violence comes to your doorstep then, Petey.

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  • [–] 36 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    This is a religious war for these people. They believe they are sending the next wave of the crusades.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    Some years ago I'd seen studies showing a 'religiosity cycle' - war and strife drives people to religion, religion drives more war and strife - and I can't help but wonder if that's the goal here.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    Well crusades always work out great. Let’s read about a famous one!

    A boy began to preach in either France or Germany, claiming that he had been visited by Jesus, who instructed him to lead a crusade in order to peacefully convert Muslims to Christianity. Through a series of portents and miracles, he gained a following of up to 30,000 children. He led his followers south towards the Mediterranean Sea, in the belief that the sea would part on their arrival, which would allow him and his followers to walk to Jerusalem. This did not happen. Instead, two French merchants promised to take some children across the sea to the Holy Land. However, the children were either taken to Tunisia where they were sold into slavery by the merchants, or shipwrecked on San Pietro Island off Sardinia.

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  • [–] 32 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Did he consider that if his prayer was granted, he'd get a lightning bolt right up his own ass?

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  • [–] 32 points 7 months ago
    [–] 29 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Does this guy know anything about Jesus, at all?

    I’m so sick of these fake Christian assholes.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Jesus? The guy who makes threats like these to any who oppose him? What a hideous, vile individual. He'd be a great roommate for Pol Pot, Stalin, or Kim Jong Il. Don't sanewash his brutality.

    John 3:18

    whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

    John 3:36

    whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

    Matthew 25:41–46

    Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

    Matthew 13:41–42

    They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Regarding those who do not belong to His Kingdom)

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Nahum 1:2

    God is jealous, and the Lord revengeth; the Lord revengeth, and is furious; the Lord will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

    Leviticus 20:27

    A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

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  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    fake Christian

    Try reading the Old Testament. You don't get to disown these people. They absolutely are Christians.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Okay but “Christian” includes the New Testament and the new covenant. That replaces a lot of the suffering/sacrafice/punishment based covenant in the Old Testament.

    I’m not a theologian so I can’t argue good here. You kinda have Christ in your teachings and heart or you don’t.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    Do I really need to quote Matthew 5:17-19again?

    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    And remember, those laws included explicitly outlined rules for how you should treat your slave.

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  • [–] 58 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Why the fuck is the Pentagon hosting a Christian service anyway?

    As an aside, with as evil as they are, we should be calling them The Pentagram.

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  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    "My god is the god of love and compassion, and if you don't believe in him, fuck you, I hope he kills you before I do."

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I always loved getting Buddhism as a religion in Civilization. Then spreading it everywhere at the point of the sword.

    YOU WILL ACCEPT PEACEFUL ENLIGHTENMENT, OR YOU WILL DIE!

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  • [–] 26 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I mean... he has crusade tattoos on his chest. Tf did Americans expect?

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago

    He's praying for violence against the United States?

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    He thinks he’s the cool kid. It’s in every expression.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    He's the dumbass that peaked in high school.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    Generous of you to suggest there ever was a peak. Guy's like this stay steady mid tier or below forever. Their anger is often a manifestation of coming to terms with that. I guarantee you this guy questions whether he's in over his head with some frequency and it's exactly his mediocrity that makes him push forward. I don't sense confidence from this guy at all. He's clearly been faking it for a long time and will probably continue to do so, hoping the rest of us don't see the insecurity and incompetence painted on his face every time he opens his mouth.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago* (6 children)

    His words are antithetical to Jesus's teachings. Diametrically opposed even. Perhaps even a smidge Anti-Christ-ian to anyone with morals or brains or a shred of bravery to stand against this? Hmmm?

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    It irks me when people try and counter this kind of stuff by arguing that Jesus was all about love and peace and kum-bah-yah blah blah blah. Because

    1. Trying to mount arguments based on logic with these people is an exercise in futility
    2. If you've read the book, he kinda really wasn't
    3. His "teachings" are either the fanciful musings of some illiterate shepherds, or state-sanctioned propaganda, and either way, are kind of worthless from a philosophical or moral standpoint
    4. Most importantly, religion has absolutely no place in government, and that's what we should be saying every time something like "the monthly Pentagon Christian religious service, headed by one of the highest officials in the federal government" crops up in the news, instead of this pedantic attempt to paint Jesus as some peaceful figure
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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    So, your argument is "he kinda really wasn't" peaceful and that it's more important to oppose religion in government then it is to say they are doing religion wrong?

    Wow it must be hard to be so enlightened.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    it's more important to oppose religion in government then it is to say they are doing religion wrong?

    That's just a non-fundamentalist position, surely?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    It's the only rational position lol. There are like 40,000 different denominations of Christianity, telling any one of them that their version of "wrong" is worse than sisyphusian.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    Similar to how the person I replied to thinks it doesn't matter if jesus opposed violence because religion shouldn't be in government, I believe the US government shouldn't exist so it's pointless to discuss if it should include religion or not 🤷‍♀️

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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago

    Such a wonderful Christian soul.

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago

    Like child rapists, pete? Pete? PETE WHY ARE YOU SILENT?

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    There’s so many Christian’s that are going to Hell

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Does anyone here read Dungeon Crawler Carl? I Uzi Jesus wouldn't carry this, but that was the first thing that came to mind.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago

    Religion doing what religion does, I see

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