This keeps getting buried by the algos, but I see this requirement as a real problem. Unreliable tech that stops your car if it thinks you're not driving right... and already current implementations have lots of false positive actions. Yeah, nope. This won't go well.
post
or showing fatigue
Oh, you mean like literally every morning as I'm leaving for work?
Sorry boss, I can't come in today because my car says I'm too tired
I'm about to say something that can be read as me supporting this shit, and I do not.
However.
Driving fatigued is about as unsafe as driving drunk. Assuming you are actually fatigued.
There was a time in the past when we allowed people to actively drink and drive.
I think - for the most part - not allowing that was a good idea.
IN THEORY preventing people from driving fatigued is not a bad idea.
IN PRACTICE we all know it won't be as simple as that.
But the basic idea itself is… not all bad. It's a pity we know it'll go to shit.
Well we're going to have to figure out something for all the people who take a couple hours to get their brains into gear in the morning if you want to stop that.
Yes indeed. I don't think it'll be easy at all. Trying to stop intoxicated driving is difficult enough, and that's usually driving that happens "after hours". So this would be ten times more difficult.
I suppose, in theory, most of the time forcing the use of some sort of alternate transportation would work, although we'd have to figure out how to make it cheaper. We often drink close to where we live, and work far from where we live.
If it was up to me, I'd delay this further and do more research and get more smart people coming up with ideas on how to solve these problems, because it would be worth trying to fix. But then again, there are so many problems we should be tackling, this is a relatively minor one.....
Fuck off with your nuanced take. We're here to be irrational and fire off unwarranted gripes!
I want my car to make hot coffee and pour it in my lap every morning on the way to work!
But you can just go to McDonald's for that. :)
But can I trigger it via my home doorbell using a Home Assistant integration?
Now if this piece of regulation passes what’s preventing your government from allowing full blown rollout of ai based fines system using camera networks for example ? This crap lowers the bar in terms of human validation a whole lot.
This is the worst timeline. Tech could have set us all free; instead its returning us to feudalism.
I get nauseated reading about these developments
lol like when I rented a Penske truck that had lane departure that kept malfunctioning.
Kept thinking I was on the road besides the freeway and slamming the brakes because I was over the speed limit.
The federal government promises this surveillance saves 9,000-10,000 lives annually.
Wikipedia says roughly 42k people died of car related injuries in 2022.
So, the government is promising that this brand new technology that has not had any field testing whatsoever is going to reduce car related deaths by 23%?
They're lucky theres no way to sue over a broken promise.
Here's a great way to reduce car deaths to near 0%
functional public transit.
It's not about reducing road fatalities.
It's about surveilling political enemies.
It'll have sudden false positives the moment you talk about how bad the government is. It'll suddenly appear in counter-terrorism surveillance.
they'll end up playing a loud advert if you look sleepy.
Hoping it can be defeated with a strategically placed piece of tape
The guy in india getting paid $0.01 per check to look into your drivers side webcam won't like that
In the blackbox computer?
Infrared sensors would be defeat-able. Integrated telemetry stuff (speed, driving habits, aggressiveness) no so much.
Depends on if they're tied to the CAN bus. If so, all sensors can be spoofed.
Tie them to a CANNOT bus
Personally, I'm wondering what a big magnet might do to something like this.
Over the sensors…
There’s zero chance that if these sensors fail they disable the car. You wouldn’t be able to bring them in for work. So covering the sensors should easily work.
Think they'd just tell you to tow the car? Tesla vehicles do this, and right now they are leading the auto industry in making cars worse.
And yet you can disable the annoying slow moving beeping in any normal EV without it shutting down the car.
Car manufacturers will do the minimum possible to not piss off customers. They’re not going to deal with all the craziness of what happens if the sensors stop working when driving, and how it would slow down the car, etc. they’re just gonna make it fail safe.
real REASON, is surveilling the actual passenger itself for any "Radical elements"
So used car prices will be going up, then.
Ofcourse this would happen. Every EV car has a sort-kind-of-black-box and a gps. So every car knows exactely what speed it is allowed to drive on the roads. In the future - when you have an accident - the insurrance company can investigate the black box of your car and see immediately what speed you were driving on that particular gps-point. With your mobile phone connected to the car, it can also see immediately who was driving the car, etc... It was written in the stars many years ago.
And this is just one of three reasons why I will never own a vehicle manufactured after 2006.
Everyone thinks they're a great driver... but I know that even when I'm exhausted, I will signal 90% more turns than these clowns I'm forced to share the road with.
mandatory in the banana republic shithole.
So who cares?
Stop! You’ll scare the .world fascists!
This technology will just prove what we already know. Most people shouldn't be driving. Bring on the trains and buses!
Nooo, you're a conspiracy theorist and a tinfoil hat that needs to touch grass.
hope more people realize this BS
I just point them to this great movie that programmed the masses for this.
Ignorance is their choice.
I wouldn't even call them ignorant, because that implies innocence or naïvety; this is actively hostile
Oh, they get hostile against you telling them this is part of their fascist plans?
Yeah, but I also meant that actively trying to shut down people who point out this is surveillance is hostile to the message that it is fascism (it's not just a "idk").
That's your instance as well. Tis why I am ani.social, and anarchist instances.
Is that similar to the moderation on .ml? I was recently banned from memes.ml because I was unapologetically criticizing china and they didn't seem to like it.
In other words, do anarchist instances suffer from the same moderation prejudices of communist-centric ones?
If they do, there wouldn't be much of a difference.
Marxist Lennists instances differ from anarchist ones in one key aspect: freedom of association. The fact they banned you for anti Xi rhetorics instead of engage your appropriate criticism in earnest is why ML instance do not praxis intersection. Only if it becomes convenient to ally, they’ll support you until you're no longer necessary:

do anarchist instances suffer from the same moderation prejudices of communist-centric ones?
In short no, because we comprehend folks come from many different backgrounds and biases, and as anarchists, we try to intersect to break those biases down. We outreach instead of silence.
Appreciate the response.
It's funny, I just saw a meme where anarchists were portrayed as being the ones to ditch communists after common goals have been achieved.
What community/instance would you recommend?
Do you mind getting into a discussion around what anarchism is/etc more?
Show me that meme! It's historically always the inverse!
community/instance would you recommend?
So far, the one I am on, *.dbzer0.com, anarchist.nexus, quokk.au etc.. I can’t afford to make mine yet due to the dwindling Yen.
Do you mind getting into a discussion around what anarchism is/etc more?
Always! We co-read weekly new topics!
I am currently banned on dbzero due to a huge misunderstanding, I am going to wait on my appeal to go through the week. So far Jorunn (she/her) @piefed.blahaj.zone has nayed my motion to apologize, and thus double-down on misinterpreting my satire for bigotry.
But you can DM me for my personal views as well. My wife is a regular in the jabber chat.
Jesus fucking christ. Could the fascist corporate dictatorship be any more obvious?
Once everyone's okay with 24/7 surveillance in public, they'll be installing cameras in every room of your home to ensure "private" compliance.
Totally. Next they are going to issue devices to everyone that track their every step. You know, small devices, small enough to fit into a pocket. The devices might even be equipped with a microphone and a camera and they'll have a constant wireless spy link that allows the spy network provider to track the location of each of these devices completely irrespective of what software is or is not running on the device.
And because it's a corporate dictatorship, they might even make people pay for these devices themselves.
Tbh, I totally don't get why people are so panicky about car tracking when everyone voluntarily owns a smartphone that allows much more in-detail position tracking than car tracking ever could.
Don't you all know that network providers can and do track any mobile device (including dumb phones and phones with custom ROMs) in their networks? They physically have to do that to place your phone into the right network cell, but they then save your location. And if you live in the USA, go read your mobile network contract. Chances are very high that you gave your network provider permission to sell your location to whoever pays.
Yes I know but I can turn my phone off or leave it at home. Or bring a burner. If I'm driving somewhere I can't turn my car off or leave it at home.
The burner is easily correlateable to you. If you don't want to be tracked with your car, you can also use an oldtimer or take a bus.
But you know as well as me that you won't turn your phone off or leave it at home.
I do often leave the house without a phone. Though I wish I could still get a pager for the most important information like my burglar alarm.
A pager would also be constantly tracked via network triangulation.
No it wouldn't. Pagers as I used them received the same signals all through the country. The network didn't even know if the pager was on or not. It was purely one way. It supported numeric (and tone) and even text messages (not encrypted but this day and age that would be possible). You could be out of coverage but the pager would warn you and due to the low frequency and low bandwidth coverage indoors was excellent. The only time I received an out of range message was when I visited a cave system.
Transmitting pagers with sending and receipt confirmation did also exist at one time but that's not the ones I mean. Maybe a network will emerge again. It doesn't actually cost a lot.
I'm kinda hoping more people will want their pagers back for precisely this reason.
No, pagers do bi-directional communication just like phones. Even the old pagers from the 70s used bi-directional communication. They didn't just broadcast over the whole continent.
No they didn't. Most pagers were receive-only. In my country two way paging networks weren't even deployed. This is why they were allowed in hospitals and mobile phones weren't, they didn't transmit. Look up the POCSAG and ERMES protocols for example. All unidirectional. They didn't work on the whole continent, just per country.
Perhaps in the US it was different, I've never been there. But there they sure were unidirectional. Even the text ones. I still have several of them and I've run my own transmitter for them on the amateur band.
Since these bunch of assholes violate my privacy, I should be okay with multiple groups of assholes doing it.
You already have not a bunch but a horde of people watching every move you make on your phone, and not only are you ok with it, you even post your opinions on social media, which means you are totally fine with it.
Which makes the protest against a small bit more surveilance pretty hypocritical.
I have taken time-consuming measures to strengthen security on my phone and to degoogle and ditch big tech. It's actually hard to do. I'm not in an area with people who stimulate me in conversation so Lemmy is good for me.
It's all I can do to minimize this shit on my phone. I've spent a lot doing it. I can't fight both mobile providers and auto companies too.
Does your phone connect to mobile network? If so, your network provider knows your location at all times, because they need to triangulate your position via the network to make sure your phone ends up in the right cell. And yes, they do save your location history, and if you are in a country like the US, you gave them the rights to sell that data when you signed your phone plan.
Do you use SMS messages? They are unencrypted and the contents are saved too.
Do you use DNS? Yeah, also unencrypted, and yeah, also that is saved and tracked, no matter which DNS server you configured.
All of this is way more critical information about you than the car tracking whether you are awake or not.
Ford has patent for tech to listen to your conversations. The inside of your car has a reasonable expectation of privacy.
That's what I'm saying. You are already surveiled 100% of the time.
We need to pressure for better legislation, not capitulate the next generation's future to unethical psychos.
Well, in this proposal, depending on camera coverage and positioning, you can take all reasonable steps to live a difficult phone free and car free life in the united states of america and still get pinged by someone else's car.
And yet ultra-moron turbofascists will point to public transit and bikeable neighborhoods as “digital prisons”.
when I was 16 I knew I didn't want to drive one day. didn't end up saving for a car like all my classmates and friends. now look who's laughing, not them because the car will think they're drunk if they do.
When I grew up a car was something everyone basically needed to have. Basically you were a nobody without a driving license.
Even still in my home country it's like that. And I'm not from America, it's an EU country with decent public transport. But cars are glorified.
It's pretty ridiculous. Not having one I save so much money, so much stress driving, so much hassle.
Don’t buy those foreign-made EVs cause the big bad boogeymen China and Russia are gonna scoop up all your freedom data.
/s
Meanwhile, the simplest switch is ignored: when you turn on your windshield wipers while not in Park or your emergency brake is not engaged, your headlights should come on as well. Such an easy piece of legislation, and nowhere near as expensive for consumers as this BS will be.
It'll be interesting to learn about defeating this tech. Also, the used car market is going to go nuts.
I dunno, seems as mundane as wearing sunglasses and driving gloves.


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