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[–] 233 points 7 months ago (8 children)

The speed at which firefox has been enshittified is as impressive as it is sad.

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  • [–] 71 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (6 children)

    ...and we'll all suffer as climate change increases. None of this shit is worth frying for.

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  • [–] 32 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Dont worry the US and Israel are starting WW3 as we speak we will all be dead before then any way

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Donald Trump is the most environmentalist president ever. With oil prices as they are, can you imagine how much less oil we're burning?

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  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Nah, it's just imperialist billiards, big vs little.

    It's all part of "the great game" the west has been playing against Russia in the middle east for over a century.... The middle east is where America does it's proxy wars.

    World wars are only a risk if a white western European country is attacked. Horrendous how those in power see the world, isn't it?

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  • [–] 63 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 102 points 7 months ago (28 children)

    F*** I really dont want to change away from Firefox. Pleas be good Firefox. Please! Don't F this up.

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  • [–] 116 points 7 months ago (24 children)

    Librewolf is exactly the same browser with all the security features dialed to 11 and all the AI removed.

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  • [–] 89 points 7 months ago (22 children)

    And it breaks sooo many sites.
    Waterfox, is Firefox that just works.

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  • [–] 37 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I tried Librewolf for a while and found it to be a bit too much for me when all I really want is Firefox without AI. The privacy options are probably great but not for me.

    Just installed waterfox. First impression is that I am super happy to be bock to the previous Firefox theme - it takes less space and looks nicer in my opinion. Seems promising. Thanks for the recommendation! :)

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    The latest Firefox release added a button that does exactly what you want. Turns off AI everywhere.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, I returned to FireFox after the latest release because of the kill switch. Still I'm uncomfortable with using software that's full of stuff that I hate, even if it's disabled. This is not really rational I guess, just me being weird.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It’s difficult. If people don’t support Firefox then the downstream browsers that everyone in this thread are suggesting are fucked. And we’re stuck with chrome and safari. But if people support Mozilla too much then they’ll just do whatever they want, like this AI nonsense.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    Yeah, it's tricky. I donated to Mozilla in the past, will look into making some donations to Servo moving forwards as I really think that's the way things are headed for me. I keep trying to use GNOME Web which is WebKit based and it keeps getting better, but it's not quite there yet for me. So for now Mozilla is my best bet in spite of everything.

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  • [–] 21 points 7 months ago

    Yeah Librewolf does go really fucking hard on security/privacy to the detriment of functionality, but the are upfront with that so you shouldn't be going in completely blind. I think Water Fox is a nice happy medium for users that don't want to fuck around with technical stuff.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    It might be easier to soften Librewolf than harden Firefox, but fair point.

    If you're a relatively normal user and you still want to use LibreWolf, I would recommend:

    • disable fingerprinting
    • not clearing history on exit

    Most of this is easy to find, especially thanks to the LibreWolf menu

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Yeah it's all just in the GUI to enable and disable what you don't want.

    I don't get what people are complaining about with LibreWolf being "too hard". Like it's 1 minute clicking through menus and you're done. 5 minutes if you need to read and search things up real quick.

    But LibreWolf, ublock installed by default, and then set up containers. Just pure bliss.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Maybe, but if you want Librewolf but less extreme, that's what Waterfox is for. May as well just install that and avoid the 5 minute search. And this is coming from a long time Librewolf user.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    It broke youtube for me yesterday and mind you I’m a web developer and I didn’t know what broke it exactly to turn it on/off.

    It fixed it self today though.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    That was almost certainly YouTube breaking itself. They do a lot of public A-B testing without notifying the user of anything, even if it could break functionality.

    The chances of Librewolf breaking, and updating in 24 hours is basically zero. Especially if you're on Windows since it doesn't update itself, you have to choose to install the separate updater application when you install Librewolf, otherwise it just doesn't update.

    https://codeberg.org/librewolf/librewolf-winupdater

    https://librewolf.net/docs/faq/

    How often do you update LibreWolf?

    LibreWolf is always based on the latest version of Firefox. Updates usually come within three days from each upstream stable release, at times even the same day. Unless problems arise, we always try to release often and in a timely manner.

    It should however be noted that LibreWolf does not have auto-update capabilities, and therefore it relies on package managers or users to apply them.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Yeah I agree it was probably a/b testing since I use ublock origin as well so I’m use to this kind of stuff.

    But the point I’m trying to make that I didn’t know at that time librewolf would have settings turned on that could break some websites.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    To be fair, YouTube is a giant piece of shit. On mobile, IronFox and Firefox are terrible with it, but switching to Chrome and everything loads instantly.

    We all know Google is purposely slowing down non-chrome browsers.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    And it breaks sooo many sites.

    No it doesn't. I use Librewolf and this common refrain is FUD.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    I used it for almost a year.
    It took me ~2 months to find, understand, and tweak settings until I stopped running into issues with sites at least one every couple weeks.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    I've been using Librewolf for about a month now, today I ran into the first problem, a website was blank but that fixed itself when I closed the tab and opened it again. I've been very happy with it so far. Sad to hear you ran into troubles.

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  • [–] 146 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Relevant section:

    Smart Window uses ‘memories’, things Mozilla says “…it learns from your activity” to inform its responses.

    You can delete memories individually, and you can set any given chat session to not use/store them.

    Fine so far.

    The problem? My memory list isn’t populated with things Smart Window learned since I enabled it. Oh no.

    It has activity going back months. We’re talking searches and website interactions from long before I enabled this. features.

    Firefox just handed that history to the AI models to plough from, without telling me upfront.

    I found this the creepiest aspect of Smart Window.

    Mozilla says this was a flub; it will refine the onboarding around Smart Window to limit memory formation to post-opt-in activity only. That’s obviously the right fix.

    Because sharing a user’s prior browsing history with third-party AI models, silently, on feature activation, without any headset? Yeah, a bit icky – but that’s the price of testing features that are finished, I guess.

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  • [–] 29 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    There’s also an option to bring your own LLM, with fields for model name, endpoint, and API token available for entry when the manual option is enabled. However, the page itself warns local models may not work correctly.

    It looks like there's an option for people to self-host too. You won't have to send your history to someone else's computer.

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  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    If it's anything like how they handled the AI sidebar, this option is going to get hidden before it hits production.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It would be really cool if they didn't do that this time.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago

    Hey, I'm not excited about more stuff getting added into an already overflowing Firefox (why not an extension?!), but if they must promote AI choice, I'm with you: actually allow user choice.

    (Based on how Mozilla has added two unrequested search engines while ignoring a request to add StartPage, the "choice" thing seems to boil down to backroom deals.)

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  • [–] 64 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm willing to give them a pass since this was a development build and while someone probably should've thought of it, it's the kind of bug that can happen. If this was the public release it would be a lot more outrageous.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago

    Finding out about this gives me some extra questions, though.

    • Was this data summarized on enabling this window, or before?
    • Did it use an existing model, or re-use one that someone may have already downloaded for a different feature?
    • Is this activity going anywhere else, like Mozilla's recent "privacy-preserving" advertising?
    • When this does release, what will the default be?
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  • [–] 46 points 7 months ago (36 children)

    So sad for Firefox. I try to keep using since it’s the only solution free of Chromium, but I guess chromium will control everything only Safari will not be chromium.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (33 children)

    Hopefully Ladybird will be production ready at some point.

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  • [–] 45 points 7 months ago (31 children)

    Ladybird is pretty much dead to me, firstly because the dev has some really bad right wing vibes (he said gender inclusive language is too political for his docs and retweeted a Nazi on Twitter). And secondly because the started using AI to move the code to Rust to make it more secure, which is insane if you know anything about AI or security.

    My current hope is in servo, because they have much more capable maintainers and the project seems to make some good progress. Also they have daily builds on their website for every operating system, so you can already try it out easily (but don't expect everything to work right now, they still need some time).

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    I did not know about the AI stuff. However, I do think that the "inclusion" controversy is way overblown. Why in the world would you need to have "gender inclusive language" in the docs for a browser engine?

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  • [–] 26 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    That ladybird gender thing is such a load of crap. I find it hard to even believe that people are genuinely passionate about it. Every time ladybird is mentioned, someone brings up the 'extreme views' based on this. But it is the biggest load of nothing you are ever likely to see.

    For anyone who doesn't know, here's what happened:

    • The build documentation for this unreleased pre-beta software used the pronoun 'he'.
    • Someone suggested that they change it to be more inclusive.
    • The author didn't think it was important enough to change, so left it.
    • More requests and pressure came to change the pronoun.
    • The pronoun was then changed, and the author apologised.

    To me, that's a minor error of judgement, with no lasting harm caused to anyone at all. But yet somehow this is constantly used as a reason to avoid ladybird.


    How can I take this seriously? Is this some kind of organised anti-competition propaganda campaign? We're talking about a free and open source project of a highly technical nature, and somehow people are upset that the word 'he' existed temporarily in a work-in-progress document with a target audience of essentially zero people. The people making this project are not political leaders or public figures with media training. They are focused on the technical side of things. Yeah, the pronoun was a mistake, but it pretty much the smallest mistake you could possibly make in this context. It not like they are donating to right-wing orgs, or publicly denouncing anyone, or promoting hate. I see far worse than what they did on a daily basis from all sorts of people - including right here in lemmy. And in terms of ladybird, I have not heard of any kind of misstep ever since this instant - which was a very long time ago now. It is honestly bizarre that people have clung onto this incident. I'm honestly not sure I believe that the backlash is entirely organic. It's just too disproportionate.

    [edit] Let me just follow this by saying that I do think there are other good reasons to be upset with this same ladybird dev. I just don't think the 'he' in the docs thing is anything at all.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    For anyone who doesn't know, here's what happened:

    except you forgot to mention some fucking crucial steps, like harshly calling it as politics and sending everyone to a warmer climate, and locking the issue to prevent further discussion

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Or we could ask the question in the opposite direction - why would you use language which excluded anybody who doesn’t identify as male from the documentation for an open-source project, to the point where when someone offers to update the language for you your response is to rant about “personal politics” and write a contribution policy which forbids the use of gender-neutral language?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    Can you provide an example of this non-inclusive language? I honestly can't even come up with an example for web browser documentation that would refer to any gender at all.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago*

    To prevent this, remove `anon` from the `wheel` group and he will no longer be able to run `/bin/su`.

    As opposed to

    To prevent this, remove `anon` from the `wheel` group and they will no longer be able to run `/bin/su`.

    https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814/commits/beb448fc248f1cbd82a4c68ddf72687203d4d51e

    That’s the example linked to from the thread which started the controversy off: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814

    [Tunas1337]

    It's a minor nitpick, but I think it's important; assuming the user and/or developer of the operating system is male isn't exactly the best.

    [awesomekling]

    This project is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Whether or not the inclusion controversy is "overblown" (it's not; single word change would have made more people feel welcome, but Kling decided to put his for down) Kling has down himself to be Nazi adjacent.

    https://hyperborea.org/reviews/software/ladybird-inclusivity/

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Apparently Kling was against using "they" instead of "he". While I do agree that it's wrong and gender neutral terms should be used, I wouldn't "cancel" the guy over it. Afaik they are using gender neutral terms now.

    The other stuff about Kling mentioned at the bottom of your link is worrying though. It's a shame a project as important and necessary as Ladybird was created by a person like him :(

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  • [+] -16 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    I won't use < insert FOSS Project > because of political vibes.

    I see this shit almost everyday. Absolute npc behaviour.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    NPC behavior is not having any sense of morality and the backbone to take a stand, but I get it, it's far more comfortable to just put your head in the sand and consume

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Consume what exactly in this context?

    Also you self righteous people still didn't tell me why you won't use the browser expect for vibes so I don't really feel bad for "consuming"

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Also you self righteous people still didn’t tell me why you won’t use the browser expect for vibes so I don’t really feel bad for “consuming”

    and like flies to shit the conservative comes out of the wood works right on queue to bitch about politics.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Yea I just don't get it for open source software, like you aren't supporting their agenda by using the free fucking software

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    why don't you just use chromium? it is open source, you can fork it!

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    True lmao xD

    Man I sure do love identity politics and having software and tech in general be somehow associated with political movements. I don't give fuck about this shit.

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  • [+] -20 points 7 months ago* (6 children)

    Ladybird is gonna be awesome, you are overblowing things, it's an open source project chill out. Also sevro is not currently really being designed as a desktop web browser. Its a web engine for light weight embedded applications. Ladybird is currently the only in development webbrowser that is primarily designed with desktop main browser use as its intended use.

    And I know you aren't a fan but in the next 5 years pretty much every piece of software you touch will have code from an LLM in it, so get over it or stop using software.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I don't think it's overblowing things at all when I look at these tweets: https://nitter.net/awesomekling/status/1966456391146606806 https://nitter.net/awesomekling/status/1971287738268909576

    That dev seems to be a real piece of shit.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Looking at those tweets I would say it is way overblown. People act like it’s the end of the world if there is a slight disagreement.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    If you think rejecting hate speech is overblown, you might be part of the problem. It's not a "slight disagreement" when people question the fundamental right to live of another group.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    I don’t see any hate speech and I tried looking for anyone questioning another groups right to live. Is the group thing connected to Charlie Kirk?
    I did see some blog posts from David Heinemeier Hansson that could be seen as controversial, but that’s just it, controversial, people have different opinions on topics.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm glad Kirk got necked and it's sad he supports him, but that doesn't change the fact ladybird is an exciting open source project that I can't wait to try out.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    Ladybird is being rewritten in Rust by AI for no reason whatsoever. Browsers should be secure, and vibe coding prevents security.

    Currently I am hopeful for Servo. Its development is not as far along, but it seems way saner. It bans AI contribution, and it's intended to be very performant.

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