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Americans are Now a Target in Trump’s Immigration Crackdown (www.wsj.com)
submitted 8 months ago by to c/politics@lemmy.world
67 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

A WSJ investigation tracked the U.S. citizens caught in the crosshairs of an aggressive government campaign to detain and demonize dissenters

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[–] 116 points 8 months ago (9 children)

Now? This isn't new information if you've been paying attention. It's been this way for quite a while. They don't care who gets caught in their sweeps. Illegals, legals, natural born citizens. Fucking guilty until proven innocent. The exact opposite of what our justice system is supposed to stand for.

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  • [–] 49 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (7 children)

    Oh, and you don't get a chance to prove your innocence. It's purely just ICE points a finger at you and you go to a gulag. Or worse. Ask Alex Pretty or Renee Good or Ruben Ray Martinez. Your citizenship doesn't matter. Your skin color doesn't really matter.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    you don’t get a chance to prove your innocenc

    The law doesn't require you to prove your innocence. It's up to the prosecution to prove otherwise. Any system that operates otherwise does so in violation of the constitution.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    And?

    The whole reason that habeus is the first requirement of the law is without a right to trial, what the law says doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if ICE has no right to jail you if nobody is stopping them.

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  • [+] [S] -7 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    For US citizens, that's not so true. People do seem to be getting no-bills from grand juries and acquitted at trial.

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  • [–] 33 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    The problem will be getting a trial. Theres been several stories of people getting deported hours after being whisked away because ICE didnt want a judge to step in

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  • [–] [S] -5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Always been a risk with ICE and the Border Patrol. About 1% of deportations have long been of US citizens. You need to get a friend to bring your proof of citizenship and try repeatedly to come home if that happens. A lawyer helps too.

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    • [–] 67 points 8 months ago* (7 children)

    First they came for the Communists

    And I did not speak out

    Because I was not a Communist

    Then they came for the Socialists

    And I did not speak out

    Because I was not a Socialist

    Then they came for the trade unionists

    And I did not speak out

    Because I was not a trade unionist

    Then they came for the Jews

    And I did not speak out

    Because I was not a Jew

    Then they came for me

    And there was no one left

    To speak out for me

    -- Martin Niemöller

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  • [–] 56 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (6 children)

    Actually first they came for the LGBTQ+ people,

    but Martin did not speak out

    Because as a conservative catholic priest,

    he agreed with it.

    -History, actually. We CANNOT afford to leave Anyone behind like this.

    EDIT: okay, he was Lutheran. And Both the LGBTQ+ and Communist hate were slow-simmering among the German Nazis, breaking out in state-sanctioned violence almost concurrently.

    Its fascinating to see just how much the history parallels what we have today.

    That this poem is easily available makes it a great tool. But that it so easily glosses over others that the Nazis targeted as being "un-German" is not something we can accept.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    Martin Niemoller, famously a prominent Lutheran pastor, was actually not a Catholic priest.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller

    I agree with your sentiment, but his piece is timeless and too important to history to misrepresent.

    EDIT: it’s also my understanding (not a historian though) that communists were the first targets. Political opponents when the nazis first achieved power because they were not strong. The moved on to ideological targets after they had established power.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Your wikipedia link shows this priest excited for Hitler's rise, even voting for Hitler in 1933, after the burning of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft Instititute for Sexual Science.

    While this poem is a useful tool, we cannot accept it being used by even the author to obscure the deaths of those he agreed with the Nazis about.

    The Nazis had a slow simmer of hate for both Communists and the LGBTQ+ community. Each received state sanctioned violence at the hands of Nazis simultaneously, both being labelled as "un-German"

    If you'll pardon the inflammatory language, I'm going to continue communicating the same thought. That priest was a product of his time and place, and fully teaching his poem demands passing on critique of that basis.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    While this poem is a useful tool, we cannot accept it being used by even the author to obscure the deaths of those he agreed with the Nazis about.

    That priest was a product of his time and place, and fully teaching his poem demands passing on critique of that basis.

    Wholly agree with you here in the goal, sentiment, and calling out he’s a product of his time. Once again, here’s a conservative that only cared about something once it affected him. At least he left his words to the ages in hopes others would learn from them instead.

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    • [–] 39 points 8 months ago (33 children)

    Maybe the idiots that voted Trump will think twice next time...

    Nah who am I kidding?

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago (21 children)

    They won't need to vote anymore.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (20 children)

    Doesn't make much difference anyway. When they elect someone like Trump twice, Americans have shown very clearly they don't deserve to have democracy as a people.

    It's sad for the ones that are more moderate and responsible, but they are a minority, and we can't judge a country by a minority.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (13 children)

    The political compass normalizes most right wingers as being moderate. Liberalism has created this situation. You cannot legislate your way to ethical capitalism.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (12 children)

    You cannot legislate your way to ethical capitalism.

    I disagree, that's exactly what we've done in Scandinavia.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    You make it sound like creative tax planning, union busting, gig economy and other forms of exploitation of workers don't exist in Scandinavia... And I'm just naming a few of the many problems with "ethical capitalism", as you call it.

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  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Nope union busting does not exist, and the gig economy is tiny, and the little there is, is based on fair pay.
    Obviously there is creative tax planning, that's kind of a game of whack a mole. Difference here is that we try to have fair tax regulation, contrary to USA that favor the rich, so much so they don't even have to be creative.

    There is actually a difference between a democracy that works for the people, and one that works for the rich.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    People are being threatened and/or fired for organizing workers at their workplace. I don't know what your definition of union busting is, but it happens over and over in Sweden.

    Example:

    https://www.arbetaren.se/2024/10/14/varslades-fran-zalandoshylager-nar-arbetsshykoparen-fick-veta-hans-roll-i-facket/

    Another example, from Finland:

    https://yle.fi/a/7-10077702

    Strikebreaking is still a thing, and while very much illegal in its traditional form employers have figured out new ways to legally do it by importing labour from other countries:

    https://www.transportarbetaren.se/strejkbryteriet-ar-tillbaka/

    And regarding the general exploitation of workers, especially low-paying precarious jobs that require hard labour:

    https://www.dagensmedicin.se/arbetsliv/arbetsmiljo/fack-stammer-apotea-for-manga-overtidstimmar/

    I don't know which country you are from, but it doesn't really matter is I am quite sure these things happen there as well.

    Capitalism is an antithesis to ethics; you can't have a capitalist economy without exploiting your workers, and while you can have more or less "nice" employers the absolute majority of them will find ways to fuck you over when push comes to shove.

    Companies exist to make as much profit as possible, and they lose their power if their workers start organizing. That's why they will find every way to (legally or not) stop that from happening (as seen in the examples I have linked to above).

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  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Technically Finland is not Scandinavian. IDK Swedish law, but here in Denmark it's illegal to fire people for unionizing. I would expect both Sweden and Finland to have similar worker protections.
    There are always people that act outside the law, and I suspect your examples aren't much better than complaining about the unsafe work environment for bank robbers.
    I don't care to read your anecdotes, just to tear them apart. Yes Tesla is not unionized in Sweden, but they are an exception, and it is costing them dearly. But every worker at Tesla can go somewhere else that is unionized, and that makes it impossible for Tesla to exploit workers, they probably have to offer better conditions to keep their workers from going elsewhere. Including paying fair wages, having good work conditions, and offering 5 weeks holiday, and paid leave when having a child. All things that are not normal in USA, because unions are not protected by law.
    Again conditions in Scandinavian countries are better than any country that calls itself non capitalist.
    So you are trying to argue that the countries that are the best to live in for both the poor and average people, do not have a good system. But some system that only exist in fantasy should be better.
    You are delusional

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    My only points are the following:

    • The fact that one country has better working conditions compared to others doesn't mean its legal system successfully prevents companies from exploiting their workers and thwarting attempts of unionizing and executing strikes.
    • Arguing that things are worse in other countries is pure whataboutism, as your original comment claimed that Scandinavia had reached some utopian idea of "ethical capitalism" by legislation - which I have tried to show is false (by providing credible sources with examples), as companies are fully able to be unethical to their workers within the legal system
    • While it may be illegal to fire people for unionizing, it still happens because companies can make up a lot of plausible reasons instead of the actual one, requiring you to have forethought and record every single conversation with managers covertly (which was done in one of the examples I gave you). Some are even willing to pay the fines for breaking this law from time to time in order to scare workers with precarious/temporary employment that don't want to risk their job. It's a calculated risk and cost for some businesses that don't care an inch for their workers.
    • "Just get another job" as an argument is not the silver bullet you think it is. This requires a lot of privileges; including economy, mobility, possibly having to move (including uprooting your family), maybe having to study or gain new skills by other means to even find a job in your area. Thinking this is an easy task tells me something about your own privileges in life.

    The fact that you won't even consider to verify the sources of my claims proves me one thing - you're the delusional one in this conversation, and you seem to be willing to stray from the discussion by also attacking me personally instead.

    What do you have to gain by denying this is happening? You may have had luck in your life and never had to experience these things yourself, but I have and many others with me have as well. Society can be pretty messed up when you actually take a look at how things work in practice, not stopping at how it should work.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (6 children)

    Better than some countries, but still participating in capitalism, which cannot exist without exploitation.

    You're a member of NATO, yeah?

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  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Capitalism is not the basis of society, the law is. And just because we have free markets, doesn't automatically lead to exploitation. Exploitation is way worse in countries that claim they are not capitalist. All the best countries in the world to live in, are free market democracies.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (4 children)

    Spoken like a truly indoctrinated westerner. Everything about your life has been defined by capitalism, including the "law" you mention. Our capitalist societies have enabled the elites to create those laws which do not apply to them.

    The lesser developed countries that have had the western boots on their throats would also like a word.

    France, Great Britain, and the US, along with it's NATO allies have been fist fucking the world for a very long. It's ignorant to call it a free market. It's looting the global south.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago* (3 children)

    You simply can't have huge advanced societies without having some sort of leadership of different kinds.
    That leadership will always be possible to call an elite in any society the size of a country of millions of people.
    The difference between a functioning democracy and other countries, is that the elite doesn't get to decide everything. The people actually have a say.
    Show me a country that doesn't have an elite, or shut the fuck up with your nonsense.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    Nonsense? It's common knowledge that capitalism cannot exist without exploitation, but you seem to think that your NATO member countries aren't part of that demographic.

    You're certainly doing a fine job contributing to climate change as well. Another form of shitting on everyone else.

    The elite manipulate elections and push for laws with their capital. The societies we live in are hardly democratic. Faux democracy is more like it.

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  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 child)

    Again you are delusional, the Scandinavian countries have worked hard on environmental issues since the 70's. Harder than any other region in the world. For instance Denmark made the worlds first MegaWatt wind turbine, and remains the global leader on wind turbines to this day. The ONLY reason I'm not blocking your idiocy, is that I don't want to have it un contradicted as response to my posts.
    But you are seriously delusional and unrealistic in your perception of the world.
    There are limitations to what is possible, and you seem to have absolutely zero grasp of that, like if you were a child

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago*

    Yeah, no, they sound super environmentally friendly, as outlined here.

    How about Equinor? Maersk? H&M? Another for H&M? H&M paying 89% of their workers below the poverty line, that sounds nice!

    Capitalism is a shit stain on the world, and the Scandinavian countries have been a part of neocolonialism just as much as the rest of the west.

    Your big argument is it's child-like to think outside of capitalism, because it's all you know. Just because you can't be bothered to read theory, doesn't mean there aren't other options.

    If the general public wasn't being deceived non-stop, bozos, like yourself, wouldn't be standing by saying "that's just the world we live in."

    My argument is we're not afforded the opportunity to make decent choices, or have a voice at all, really. Stop pushing for moderates.

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  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    they don't deserve to have democracy as a people

    Hey fuck you. Eat shit. Die in a fucking chemical car fire. No, better yet, live through one and be horribly disfigured and live out your days in unbearable pain.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Point in case.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    No, asshole, you don't get to come in and sanctimoniously declare that none of us deserve democracy. Fuck you and your privileged self.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    And exactly how do you figure Americans "deserve" democracy? Democracy is not a naturally given right, it's something you have to work for. Americans have utterly failed to do that for 50 years, where it has been obvious the American democracy is extremely dysfunctional.
    You have the government and leaders you elected. Nobody forced anybody to vote Trump. Next to nobody (only 2%) have been fighting to keep democracy, and now you are at a risk of losing it.

    Please mind that I also wrote:

    It’s sad for the ones that are more moderate and responsible, but they are a minority, and we can’t judge a country by a minority.

    I am not talking about individuals here, I very explicitly stated we can only judge based on the majority.

    But just go ahead and call me an asshole for pointing out the failures of your own people if it helps.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    You're stating that anyone doesn't deserve democracy. Authoritarians and abusers will say similar things while imposing their will on others.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    I've been warning Americans about this shit for more than a decade 20 years (since 2005 on reddit), I have a right to claim Americans didn't heed the warnings.
    When faced with a preventable problem and you do nothing about it, there is no excuse when that preventable problem finally hits you.
    I'm so fucking tired of American exceptionalism, you always thought you were #1, only now it is beginning to dawn on many Americans, that maybe they have a problem.
    Now we even see Americans whining about how bad it is, and how depressed they are about it, begging for help from outside.
    But that's not how it works. We can't fix your problems with your democracy from Europe or any other place outside USA. You have to fix it for yourself, and if you do, then you can claim you deserve democracy, because you actually did something to save it.

    Edit:
    BTW, we have had a few demonstrations against Trump here in Denmark that were bigger than in USA when the sizes of populations are accounted for. And Trump is for sure not threatening our democracy.

    This one was because Trump offended our forces:
    https://nyheder.tv2.dk/live/samfund/2026-01-31-danske-veteraner-demonstrerer-mod-trump

    This was about the Trump tariffs:
    https://www.information.dk/indland/2026/01/demonstrationer-sende-klart-signal-trump-groenlaenderne-staar-alene

    This is a protest against US forces being allowed in Denmark:
    https://arbejderen.dk/indland/protester-loerdag-er-start-paa-bevaegelse-mod-udenlandske-tropper-i-danmark/

    This one was against Trump/USA to stay away from Greenland:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J10XOyml_kQ&t=6s

    That's how democracies work. 4 significant protests in Denmark against USA since Trump took over! Most of which support our government, except for the one against allowing US troops in Denmark.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago* (8 children)

    The MAGA idiots that voted for Trump still support Trump. My neighbor is overjoyed that we are at war. I've never been so disgusted by a boomer's behavior.

    My other idiot boomer friend is not MAGA, but he is Republican. And he will continue to vote Republican, even though he hates Trump.

    They never learn. It's always "well, next time it'll be different". And, in that respect, they are exactly like Democrats.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (7 children)

    Yep, last I heard Trump still has above 30% support among Americans, including all the shit about ICE, tax cuts for the 1%, taking affordable healthcare away from people, undermining the economy with tariffs, breaking relations with former allies, failing to support Ukraine, and now entering a completely unnecessary illegal and war destabilizing the region and and even Europe to some degree, that benefit no-one but Israel and Putin.

    Edit: As MaryJaneDoe pointed out I forgot to mention the Epstein files, and that Trump is a pedophile and suspected of having participated in the murder of a child.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    I mean, what else could they even do? Vote for the DEMONcrats? They believe all kinds of wild things about the Democratic Party. They think the Democrats are going to defund the police, have boys get made into girls at school, flood the country with illegals that will rape your wife and daughters, and on and on...

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I mean, what else could they even do? Vote for the DEMONcrats?

    Yes ABSOLUTELY!! And then join the party, and participate actively in politics to move Democrats to improve (reform) democracy in USA.
    That's what they should have done at least since the 80's, where it became clear there was a problem.
    Instead Americans have abandoned both politics and unions, and are now completely without power, that has been yielded to the 1% instead!

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    No one likes democrats. They lost (or worse, didn’t fight a stolen election) to a pedophile loser rapist reality tv piece of shit.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Trump has a 41% approval rating, which is low, but not anywhere near a record. The lowest was Harry S Truman, at 22%.

    (And you didn't mention the Epstein files, which is about the only thing that really annoys him, so I like to bring it up.)

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    • [–] 33 points 8 months ago

    Protesters, observers and passersby taken into custody by federal agents were declared terrorists and attackers in hundreds of social-media posts by U.S. officials and departments since the start of the immigration sweeps in cities. This includes Minneapolis, where two citizens were excoriated by officials after they were killed by federal agents in January.

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    [–] 17 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    So then it's not an "immigration crackdown"

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    its THE crackdown

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    • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    The Wall Street Journa?!? Trump managed to lose the Wall Street Journal?

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    • [–] 28 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    If you're surprised, you haven't been paying attention

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    • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I love how scrolling has no visible effect for quite some time. I thought it was broken. These things are cute, but have no place in journalism.

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    • [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    We always where. If you live here you're an american. Sorry if that's insulting to some of you who've moved here lol.

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    [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    I feel like the beginning was a little too complicated and didnt have the best UX but I really loved the more multimedia way of presenting all the details together, with audio, video, textual information, and data visualization all brought together

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    [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    Just now?

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    2 comments in c/usa@midwest.social view that post
    [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    Always have been.

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    [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    Now?

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