Lenovo also owns the Motorola phone brand, and they're going to adopt/allow GrapheneOS. I think they know how to grab customers right now, and I honestly like it.
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There's a difference between 'repairable' and 'upgradable.' Most of the comments seem to conflate the two. Lenovo isn't doing a Framework.
It's a smart move. Differentiates them from other laptop-makers for corporate IT, who can do the parts swaps themselves. Also smart is associating the brand with iFixit and working to get a 10/10. That'll be what sets them apart from all the others, at least for the next year or two.
The "upgradability" part in a small laptop is questionable to me, anyway.
The GPU is really compromised in that chassis, as having it in a slot compromises cooling big time, and limits how much power it can use. And while I love upgradable RAM for the CPU... it'd be better if they used faster CAMM modules. Many other brands have upgradable SSDs/WiFi.
Swappable ports are awesome, no question.
...But honestly, I'd rather have a smaller chassis, bigger GPU and better cooling right off the bat, like a Zephyrus chassis. And have it reparable, and make the whole motherboard standardized/swappable, but not compromise the chassis so severely by making it modular.
There's a difference between 'repairable' and 'upgradable.'
Absolutely! I've got a Lenovo IdeaPad Flex 5 (laptop/tablet thingy).
I've upgraded/replaced the ssd - no problem.
Unfortunately, this laptop has an issue with the keyboard: the left section/panel intermittently stops sending inputs. Meaning, keys like escape, a, w, shift, l-control - just stop (even in the bios). I'd read that they keyboard "collects" static which causes problems with certain sections of the keyboard.
I thought I'd see how difficult it would be to replace the keyboard. I watched a teardown video, and of course you need to remove everything... but I lost it when, the person in the video used a heat gun to melt "plastic rivits" that connected the keyboard to the motherboard case. Then with the replacement keyboard needed to remelt the plastic rivits.
This laptop is not repairable. In fact, I swore I'd never buy another Lenovo again as a result. ... but if their focus is on making them repairable (and their recent partnership with GrapheneOS edit: oops, that's Motorola and GrapheneOS) - I might be eating crow tonight.
Note that ThinkPad and IdeaPad are practically different companies with how Lenovo acts.
Fully expect IdeaPads to continue to be shit. ThinkPad can do the most wondrous good stuff in the world and IdeaPad will stay garbage.
And yes, I went through the same exact maddeningly shitty keyboard replacement procedure. Never again IdeaPad, though ThinkPad has been fine.
Bonus points, ThinkPad brand never shipped Superfish, and most of the firmware security flaws have been IdeaPad side. It's amazing how half-assed they are with that brand yet pretty competent with ThinkPad.
oops, that's Motorola
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/d/motorola-smartphones/ Same company, actually, so you were basically right the first time!
A think pad t series is not really much harder to take apart than a framework. Just more screws and fewer magnets. The screen is probably an exception however.
That's his point. It's similar to framework, but not the same.
Easy repairability is great, truly.
But framework offers more than that, easy repairability AND upgradability, because they offer new upgraded parts with the same compatibility as the old ones, so you can just drop them in.
Lenovo is not yet doing that. Which is fine. Just a noteworthy difference.
I would be curious to see how often people actually upgrade their frameworks.
I agree with their repair stance. It just feels like one of those things people will tell you they want and then never do.
Still maybe the explosion in memory prices will change the incentives and people will start holding things longer. It will be interesting to see.
I would be curious to see how often people actually upgrade their frameworks.
For me, I've upgraded my mainboard to a newer CPU generation for better integrated graphics (old one is in a case as a home server) and I upgraded to their matte screen when they released those.
I got my framework about a year ago, before the tariffs got crazy, and well before ram got crazy (I put 96 gigs in it to play with AI workloads, and for the lulz).
My plan is to ride this thing until it starts showing its age. Which I imagine will be another 3 or 4 years? Only then can I comment on my actual desire and commitment to upgrading it.
Until then, I'm just banking on the fact that the company will a) live. And b) still have parts for my machine.
I do appreciate what they're doing, and I like my machine now.
There are definitely people out there who upgrade super frequently, who knows, maybe I'll be one of them in 1 or 2 years instead of 3 or 4. Hard to say what life will look like then, the way things go these days.
It is a bigger deal in business settings, where one laptop can see multiple hands and you've got a team dedicated to repair.
Not typically an issue for the individual user, but increasingly an issue for a team of users as the size of the team grows
I've upgraded my 13 with new mainboards twice. I've yet to upgrade my 16 because everything is too expensive now, and upgrading the GPU to the newer nVidia module would require replacing the screen too and fuuuuuck that. Maybe they'll put out a new AMD module that won't require replacing a perfectly good screen.
While easy to repair, how does durability compare so you don't need to repair it in the first place?
While not bad like an HP consumer grade laptop, I have not heard good things about the rigidity of the frameworks. All the modularity takes away space for reinforcement and leaves more points for things to break.
The modularity might be considered almost a gimmick of recessed USB-C accessories, so I would personally be happy with a device that leaves that outside the core chassis, so long as the chassis ports are at least as modular as this ThinkPad concept. No idea if those big empty areas are a serious liability structurally or not...
Even among shitty laptops, it's always been keyboard, screen, or charging port as the things that break, not sure structural support matters too much on those fronts. I have had boards fail, but not due to physical events.
keyboard, screen, or charging port as the things that break
That's exactly where structural reinforcement makes a difference. Keyboard less so since usually it's the switches that break. But ThinkPads have reinforcement not just on the chassis, but the ports too. There's a plate about 1 inch wide on all the ports of my machine. The less all components flex the less likely things break. From simple insertion cycles to actual physical damage, it all adds up over time.
Ok, my ports break out of use, have had pretty bad luck with USB-C charging ports on the thinkpads... Never been dropped but they just stop working... Then if out of warranty I start using another USB-c port... then that breaks....
Seeing a modular USB-c port is just absolutely fantastic...
Ooh yes baby! As an early Framework adopter who's repaired it already a few times, including a solder job on the board, I am happy to see it. I am getting increasingly angsty about where Framework would go in the future as its VCs crank up the profit knob. Having the biggest real manufacturer in the world introduce an alternative is fantastic. With that said, it also depends on Lenovo actually making parts direct-for-purchase available at decent prices. Without that, repairability serves just as marketing wank.
E: Is that a magnesium body plate?
An advantage that Framework still has is their upgradeability.
Fact.
But to be honest, the strength of the body of the Framework is pretty weak. Drops and more pressure result in permanent bending. I've already replaced one bottom. So if one wants a physically durable machine that can be thrown around, upgradeability might be okay to give up.
Is that a magnesium body plate?
As is tradition for thinkpads.
I thought they went away from it for their latest gens.
Oh my. It seems you're right.
Its nice to see the return of the classics!
No, they've always had some sort of magnesium reinforcement. Full blown roll cage? Yeah that went away around the T440 series. E or L series? They've always been cheaper. But there's always been some magnesium reinforcement on the T series.
T460 https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jrMAAOSwOwdkVWl8/s-l1200.jpg
T480 https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/31Oj9fSCo-L._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg
T14 Gen 1 https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S59cb725ffd0043ccacb3e731f8409715c.jpg
Gen 3 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Lenovo+ThinkPad+T14+Gen+3+Keyboard+Replacement/157530#s329289
Gen 5 https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dn8AAOSwqT9mg1T-/s-l400.jpg
One thing to highlight: T-series Lenovo laptops are mainstream business products shipped at a huge scale.
This is not a small-scale experimental product for the tinkerers. This may define the biggest laptop segment if it works out well. It might be the first time in a while that something like this hits such a huge market.
wtf are you talking about? this isn't "hitting the market", this is staple of the thinkpads for ever.
These particular models are about to be released, hitting the market. With all renown Lenovo got for good long-term support, this is their most repairable product as of yet.
this is their most repairable product as of yet.
thinkpads were always repairable, that and durability is their number one attribute. you present it as if it were somehow new thing.
Even though they were considered repairable, they are now better than ever at that, and they require as little expense as possible to replace certain parts.
I don't know what's so hard about that. They had it good, they made it better.
there isn't really anything revolutionary described in the article (maybe with an exception of these detachable ports).
i have no idea how much things got worse in the last few years, so it is possible they are fixing something they broken lately, but again, presenting it as something new, when it is in fact something that thinkpads were known for since the last ice age and is why people are using them, is just strange to me.
it is really on the level of "omg you guys, did you know that ferrari is doing really fast cars?"
Just a lil nitpick: article is by iFixit who is a Lenovo business partner. So perhaps less objective than one might hope.
It seems to me that Lenovo’s repairably is more affected by that iFixit partnership than the opposite. I don’t see anything factually wrong or suspicious in the article.
I use iFixit's guides all the time, so I would hope that their score isn't affected by it. I've seen them as being fairly good at their role.
As someone who has changed a laptop keyboard before.
That picture says it all.
They even state it them selves in the article, so it is not like they are trying to hide this. Also they say that this is not the end all be all of reparability, which IMO should merit not then getting a 10/10 but idk what their metrics are.
This is true, but they're also not wrong that fully-modular USB-C ports is an absolutely huge win. It's one of the biggest things when it comes to laptops these days.
It's unlikely that fact will change the repairability of the devices. They risk too much by posting biased and false information on that end.
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