If at first you don't succeed, move, move the goalposts.

Nasa announced on Friday radical changes to its delayed Artemis III mission to land humans back on the moon, as the US space agency grapples with technical glitches and criticism that it is trying to do too much too soon.

The abrupt shift in strategy was laid out by the space agency’s recently confirmed administrator, Jared Isaacman. Announcing the changes on Friday, he said that Nasa would introduce at least one new moon flight before attempting to put humans back on the lunar surface for the first time in more than half a century, in 2028.

The new, more incremental approach would give the Nasa team a chance to test flight and refine its technology. As part of the changes, the Artemis II mission to fly humans around the moon this year, without landing, would also be pushed back from its latest scheduled launch on 6 March to 1 April at the earliest.

“Everybody agrees this is the only way forward,” Isaacman told reporters at a news conference. “I know this is how Nasa changed the world, and this is how Nasa is going to do it again.”

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[–] 8 points 8 months ago

This revision actually makes sense. The former timeline was outrageously optimistic given the capability of SLS + Orion, the new systems and tech, the state of the lander portion of the program (it exists on paper?).

One of the contributing factors to the success of Apollo was the relative simplicity, even by the standards of the time. The complexity of Artemis scares me.

I'm an outsider looking in so I could be totally off the mark.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago*

    No surprise. The administration is pretty heavily anti-science and not likely to prioritize anything that is for pure science beyond what brings direct profit to a friendly corporate contractor. Sad that the project likely will die off and lots of engineers and scientists will lose their jobs, but honestly there are better things that NASA should be doing like restoring the weather systems that DOGE forced them to scrap to avoid revealing more evidence of climate change or more pure science. This was always more a publicity stunt and pipe dream of Musk's to look cool rather than science driven, though it would have had some level of scientific benefit.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    I’m still very excited to see NASA doing all of this.

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  • 59 comments in c/news@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 74 points 8 months ago* (7 children)

    Probably for the best under the current administration. They'd try to build an ICE detention center with Trump's face large enough to be seen from Earth. None of the astronauts would survive.

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  • [–] 30 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    As much as I'd love to see someone on the Moon, I'd happily wait until Trump is dead just to avoid allowing him to claim it as his personal achievement.

    I swear he would issue some kind of bs executive order saying they had to wear MAGA hats in the orbiter or something fucking stupid.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Breaking News: Trump Orders NASA to Drill For Oil On Moon

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  • [–] 19 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    We are going to Mars Moon LEO Nowhere.... Nazism?

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  • [–] 19 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Führer Musk doesn't want any competition!

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  • [–] 16 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I guess killing the project outright is likely not an option without angering Congress. There has been so many issues and delays with this rocket that I really hope the capsule heat shield holds up during re-entry and the astronauts all survive.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    Are we great again, yet?

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  • [–] 61 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    A spacex ally is appointed chairman and guts a project that would've outshone them. Tired of the blatant corruption happening in this country.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Except SpaceX is part of that mission, or was?

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    The highly successful Starship is to be the lander. They just need to get one to orbit first.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    You got them on a technicality. But multiple test articles have pretty much reached orbit, intentionally just missing orbit so they would re enter in a known location should something go wrong, and something has gone wrong most of the time.

    I'm excited for the staship program because it's the most exciting spaceflight development in my lifetime, yes fuck Elon but that doesn't change the facts of how exciting the program is for a space lover. The upcoming launches with v3 hardware are going to be very exciting, hopefully most of the kinks have been resolved.

    The more pressing issue IMO is that they haven't really shown any of the moon landing hardware, which will be substantially different than the Starship articles they are using for testing now.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    SpaceX is going through the same problem tesla currently has. All the talent that created its good products is either burnt out or already left the company. Their outputs will continue to decline while being in stark contrast to their promises imo.

    Their hiring process is also atrocious and scares off any good engineers, and with Elon's cocksucking arch, those disillusioned enough to tough out working there are very few these days.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago

    I totally get your point, but I don't think SpaceX has any engineer problems. They've had a lot of issues with their test articles, but as far as it seems, that's sort of by design using the move fast and break things philosophy, which obviously isn't good in some ways. But it worked for the Falcon 9 landings, and it's going to work for starship, and all the detractors and haters will say nothing in five years when Starship is an extremely successful program.

    I think a lot of people fail to see the extreme space fans and engineers who are super into space are willing to suffer through some of these things to work on what is actually the most incredible space program in our lifetime. I wouldn't do it. I'm not an engineer though, and I really do fucking hate Elon Musk. But I say it again. Starship is awesome, and it's going to be extremely successful, despite what you may believe now. SpaceX has a very long history of proving the haters wrong, in fact I can't think of a single example when the haters and people saying "its impossible" ended up being right long term

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    I don't think you're educated on the matter because landing on the moon with the mission plan that they set out requires the lunar gateway to be in place, it is not and likely won't be for a long time. It was going to be impossible to land on the moon by the third mission (unless significantly delayed) no matter who was in charge. Like all ambitious space missions in history, it will be delayed, delayed, and delayed again. Sadly that's how it has always been.

    You shouldn't confidently spout incorrect information

    "The aerospace safety advisory panel recommended that Nasa rethink its objectives for Artemis III, ........ The panel said that the call for a revision was urgent, “given the demanding mission goals”."

    The fucking safety advisory panel suggested the change moron dude, not Isaac. But yes fuck Elon cuck the pos ket head

    Edit: removed unnecessarily rude words, sorry I'm just an asshole

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Like all ambitious space missions in history, it will be delayed, delayed, and delayed again. Sadly that’s how it has always been.

    Unless I'm grossly mistaken, Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo were pretty much on schedule. I don't know about Skylab, if we consider it separate from Apollo. I think things started to become less tight with STS (Shuttle).

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago*

    You could be right. I have not been alive that long and I must admit I'm not super educated on the exact timelines of many older programs. But in my lifetime, all the exciting programs have been delayed by a lot.

    I guess I confidently spouted some incorrect information if you were right.

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  • [–] 32 points 8 months ago (31 children)

    I don't follow this subject, but I can only imagine this is in part due to the DOGE cuts?

    Whatever the reason, I don't think that going back to the moon at this time is a good idea. Especially if all we're going there for is to exploit whatever resources it has.

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  • [–] 50 points 8 months ago (20 children)

    It’s also due to the fact that Boeing seems to no longer be capable of building a spacecraft that doesn’t constantly fucking break, and the regime is conscious of the fact that killing the entire crew of the first manned mission to the moon in nearly a half century would be Very Bad Optics.

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  • [–] 21 points 8 months ago (18 children)

    And if that wasn't bad enough SpaceX is basically dead in the water. Presumably because Musks general radiation of incompetent malice has probably purged anyone who could've made their shitty rockets work without being spread across the fucking gulf.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (17 children)

    How are the dead in the water in this context?

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (16 children)

    They seem to either be incapable or unwilling to revise their design to stop the damned rockets from constantly exploding. If NASA had the same failure rate for a new rocket back in the 50s of 60s they'd have been canned. Hell if the Soviets had a similar failure rate the entire team wouldve been sent to the gulag.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (15 children)

    What are tou talking about?

    Falcon 9 is fine.

    Starship & Booster are continuously improving. When you see that a starship blew up, what's probably conveniently left off from the headlines you read is its a major revision. New engines, longer, different flaps etc. The last one went up and down wonderfully. The next one launching is v3 and has the latest engines and hundreds of changes and will probably go boom and maybe even the one after that.

    They're literally removing heat tiles from critical areas to see what happens.

    In no way is SpaceX messing up here though.

    Nobody has ever developed a rocket in the open like this before where stuff breaking is expected and normal.

    Edit: Attaching image of their engines for example. That v3 is not a render. This is a brand new engine type (full-flow staged combustion fuel cycle), never flown before SpaceX built one and flew it. Russia built one in theory, but never flew it.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    The pic reminds me of a youtuber who debunks SpaceX bullshit almost exclusively. I don't remember the specifics, but he claimed that the v3 seen here is basically a fantasy.

    Seriously, do not trust Musk to build something that works reliably under high stress. Esp. do not entrust human beings to anything Musk builds.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (3 children)

    Was it thunderf00t by any chance?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (2 children)

    Not sure. A middle aged guy (judging from his voice and some hints, I don't think he's actually visible) from some English speaking country.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    Ah yes, something that an arm chair rocket scientest says can't exist

    This is it firing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJdu5ee_ohA

    This is the clean side of it

    This is looking at the vertical slice head on we see in the original image where we see it as only the vertical part of it. There were other pictures where that 1st one came from with other angles as well, they weren't hiding anything with a specific shot.

    People said it was impossible to propulsive land a orbital booster, and said it would also be impossible to land it on a barge in the ocean.

    SpaceX lands a orbital rocket on a barge in the ocean.

    People said even if you can reuse a rocket, it'll never be affordable to do so. One very prominent space person (someone in boeing or something) said, you'd have to fly it 10 times to even be worth making one!

    SpaceX flew their first Falcon 9 for the 33th time last week.

    People said no ones going to want to use a re-used rocket

    SpaceX has people including government agencies specifically looking for used rockets as they're now flight tested.

    People said even if you can relaunch a rocket, there isn't enough things to put into space to even warrant having one

    SpaceX develops Starlink to create a use case for their new rocket.

    People said Starlink would never be profitable, you have to keep sending new satellites up they'll never make money!

    SpaceX's starlink division is now profitable and accounts for more revenue than the rest of the business. (satellites coming down now don't matter as they can be profitably replenished. All them coming down means is bandwidth capacity will stagnate IF technology doesn't improve to increase it when more go up)

    People thought it was nuts they were going to try and catch Super Heavy booster on 2 chop sticks

    SpaceX lands it on their first, and subsequent tries.

    The list goes on and on and on and on and on and on, and they keep doing it.

    Falcon 9 is the most reliable rocket we have, and you're sitting here going don't trust musk to build something reliable lol.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Nobody has ever developed a rocket in the open like this before

    dude, please read up on the space race. we have designed rockets in the open before. they blew up far less frequently.

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (7 children)

    None of that was like what SpaceX is doing.

    There were failures in the race and they were testing things, but failures weren't the expected outcomes and part of the planned development cycle. Like they still don't even know how to make a reusable heat shield which is fundamental to this working.

    SpaceX has built a manufacturing line to churn these things out and is like we think this might work, let's try it in flight hardware. Oh okay that didnt work, let's try something else. Oh okay that did work now, but if we do this does it still work because if it does we can eek out 2% more performance. Oh shit now we have a brand new mark 2 engine. Does it sill work? Let's make it longer now with more fuel and new tanks!

    Starships blowing up is part of how they are iterating. No one else has done it this way, or so publicly.

    The government cant handle things like this because people like you look at it as a failure and shit gets shut down. If they IPO its also going to cause issues for the same reason.

    Meanwhile SpaceX has designed, built, flew and landed two orbital boosters before anyone landed one. They fucking caught it in chopsticks.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    And yet they still can't do shit we could do 60 years ago

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  • [+] -6 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Like deliver 100 tonnes to the moons surface in a single ship?

    What do you think they're failing at so badly compared to 60 years ago.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I'm tired and don't have the name of the specific parts in my head right now and don't feel like looking them up. Shit we used to be able to make that is essential to manned spaceflight, that since we decided to get rid of the space shuttle now no longer gets made by anyone. no company nor person has the expertise to simply follow the patents. That's what trade secrets are for. In short, the supply chain broke and it has not been fixed.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    Well, if my google search is right, they've already done 15 crewed flights (there/back so 30) with the longest duration in the capsule being over 3 days, and there are people on the ISS, so whatever it is, isn't needed for any of that manned spaceflight which makes me think its just something that allows for an extended trip, and having a bigger ship, opens the possibilities of other solutions.

    For example, they can just take a less complicated but larger CO2 scrubber and/or more oxygen instead of having to use a super complicated one with a material we maybe can't re-create due to space/weight constraints. They'll have 100 tonnes to work with. 1 tonne of oxygen would last a small crew for years. Also that 100 tonnes might probably be after life support systems if they're talking about delivering 100t to surface.

    I'm tired as well, I'm going to head off to bed.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Like deliver 100 tonnes to the moons surface in a single ship?

    When does it arrive? Something as spectacular as that they're probably launching twice a week.

    Not as good as my rocket though, it's powered by Ai and does three laps around the moon powered by bandwidth lazers.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 child)

    The point is no one has done what they are trying to do. Hur dur NASA got to the moon and SpaceX cant even do it is an apples to oranges comparison.

    NASA used a fully expendable system and delivered about 15 tonnes to surface.

    SpaceX is building a fully reusable (in theory) first and 2nd stage that can deliver 100t to the surface.

    You cant compare it.

    Edit: My bad - thats 100t cargo to the moon, actual mass including ship is over 200t. Apollo was still ~15t

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago

    No. The SLS program has been a complete shitshow from the start and getting people to the moon in Artemis III was never a realistic prospect. If anything, Isaacman is trying to salvage the project by injecting some realism.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Other countries are gearing up too though right?

    If the US isn't there, China and others will be.

    IDK what resources are on the moon itself, but asteroids seem to have loads of accessible minerals.

    Honestly, I'd prefer these were harvested from asteroids rather than delicate ecosystems on Earth.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Yes, yes, we are going to Mars in 2022, says Elon.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Especially if all we’re going there for is to exploit whatever resources it has.

    You may misunderstand this part. There’s no way any mineral resource is worth mining on the moon and bringing back to earth. Even tritium has no actual documented presence and would only be useful if we had nuclear fusion.

    It’s more circular. Supporting humans in space will always be stupendously expensive, but a huge part of the cost is launching stuff from earth. The best way to make space cheaper and more reliable is to be able to use stuff already there, instead of bringing it from earth.

    If you can find water and have sufficient energy, you could make your own water not only for humans but to grow crops, oxygen, even rocket fuel. That alone could save billions of dollars and make a huge difference in being able to sustain a successful program

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    They now aim to send them to the center of the Earth.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago

    Im one of the types who feels its by and large pointless to send humans to space destinations. I think iss is a rare exception because of the experiments but I would mostly like to send machines to places to take readings and to work on making things remotely with machines. If we can setup a decent human habitation on the moon or such with them then I could see sending humans.

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  • 3 comments in c/space@mander.xyz view that post
    [–] 14 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Wow. This is huge, and puts doubt on ever walking on the moon again. The original plan was obviously nuts with its weird orbits and mad refueling profile, but it was a plan at least! II was due to send astronauts the furthest into space EVER about now also. What is III to accomplish? When could IV fly, and will lunar descent then occur?

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago*

    puts doubt on ever walking on the moon again

    Well, for the American space program at least. Not for as long as the US continues to drastically underfund NASA since isn't as useful in weapons manufacturing nowadays.

    China is still underway to land astronauts on the moon by 2030 from what I can see, and I'd bet they aren't anywhere near as underfunded as NASA has been

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  • What is III to accomplish?

    It will be a practice run in LEO, a la Apollo 9.

    When could IV fly, and will lunar descent then occur?

    It's currently NET 2028, which is the same year as the old Artemis 3. In terms of schedule, it's like they're inserting an "Artemis 2.5" mission, between Artemis 2 and the crewed lunar landing.

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