The authorities apparently got tired of asking and just went in themselves.

Canada-based Windscribe, a VPN provider, just said that one of its European servers has been allegedly seized by Dutch authorities without a warrant. According to the company’s post on X, law enforcement said that they will return it to the service provider after they “fully analyze it.” It’s unclear why law enforcement impounded just a single rack from Windscribe’s cabinet, but the VPN provider said that it only uses RAM disk servers, meaning anyone who would look through the installed SSDs would only find a stock Ubuntu install on it, so the servers shouldn't hold any trackable data.

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[–] 115 points 9 months ago (17 children)

Whatever they find is inadmissible, if there truly wasn't a warrant.

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  • [–] 94 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Doesn't mean they can't use it for parallel construction

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 26 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    It basically means dodging legal restrictions on investigation by using illegal (or at least inadmissible) means to obtain evidence, and once the police have it, they look for legal ways to get that same information.

    So everywhere "has it", the question is whether they use it. I don't know if there's reason to believe that EU police forces use such methods more or less than their US counterparts.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I know what it is, but that doesn't mean it's an accepted practice in the EU. I don;t really know much about how their law works, which is why I asked about it.

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

    It's not a law but a practice that cops do in order to use dubiously acquired evidence to build a case against someone.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Yes but that doesn't answer the question of whether it's an accepted practice in the EU. I'm also not so sure it isn't somehow codified into law, in the US there's precedents supporting it but IDK about other countries.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The point is that it skirts the law. You can't really make it illegal because it is a way of subverting legality. If they legally obtain the evidence then it's legally obtained. If they happened to get to that point through extra-legal means that doesn't really matter, as long as the end result is legal. Maybe you could argue in court that they only got there because of extra-legal actions, but they can argue the opposite. If this helps them look in the right spot for illegal actions, who's to say that them looking there couldn't have happened purely by chance?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago*

    You really can make it illegal if there's the political will to do so, but it's a hot potato, so the likelihood of of the practice being formally reigned in is unlikely. You make fruit of the poisonous tree absolute and create laws that make illegal search or seizure kill investigations without the possibility of future charges for a given criminal act.

    Obviously that would also have practical drawbacks as well, but it is certainly legally possible.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 53 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    https://repository.tilburguniversity.edu/bitstreams/97187bcf-4ad2-402c-ac05-e565346d09b6/download

    EU has similar laws and Dutch law allows for striking illegally collected evidence if the infringement was severe

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    The EU doesn’t have laws. It has directives and regulation. These are converted into law by member states.

    The EU doesn’t have any regulation or directives about the inadmissibility of evidence; that is a national concern. The only area the EU has directives for regarding evidence is the cross-border admissibility of evidence from one country being accepted in another.

    This is in line with the principle of subsidiarity, which means the EU only concerns itself with trans-European issues.

    This is technically correct, the best kind of correct.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    EU Regulations are directly applicable to all member states, so its not needed to transpose those into domestic law for them to be used. Some countries' constitutional setup mess with this(like the uk eh pre-brexit I guess), but in general regulations are as important if not more than domestic law.

    Directives can be directly used in domestic courts but only under certain conditions. The defendant/respondant needs to be a public body and the transposition deadline must have passed. Its basicly 'you failed to implement it in time — tough'. Also if they're not implemented correctly. But in general yes, they're only instructions for the members to pass domestic legislation.

    I think even on a technicality both are law. Sorry if this was a bit padantic.

    oh and yes I'm not aware of any EU legislation on admissibility of evidence. But, not really my area :/ I think there have been proposals for cross-border stuff but can't remember what became of that. If you know any in force i'd be interested in reading that? thanks

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago

    Conspiracy brain says this was deliberately done to make any evidence inadmissible and key evidence gathered without a warrant would result in an acquittal with an unlikely second trial for fear of double jeopardy.

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  • [–] 83 points 9 months ago

    What authorities exactly? How did they get their hands on these servers without being let in? Do they have a response to this all being put on twitter? Even the article doesn't mention reaching out to "Dutch authorities" for comment, in a great journalistic failure to clarify anything.

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  • [–] 39 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    To what end? What authority? At this point it could be you or me in a mask with a body cam, for all the credentials authorities are showing these days.

    Spoiler: it was a random thief in need of hardware.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    The thief just want to set up their own gaming server; issue is that it's too expensive to purchase, so it's easier to steal it.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Imagine all the €€ worth of ram in there at current prices 😅

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago

    There's that legal jargon that comes to mind, fishing expedition

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  • [–] 90 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Too sumarize the article:

    US clickbait and ad infested news website directly quotes "trust me bro" Twitter post + describes in 2 sentences what a ramdisk is and does zero real "journalism" like maybe contacting mentioned dutch authorities or Windscribe themselfs.

    Once again: Ban Tom's Slopware. Post the original source instead.

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  • [–] 29 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    RAM disks alone will not be enough; the law enforcement can literally freeze the DRAM for forensics.

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    Police have had, since the late 90s I think, the "Hotplug" which is a special battery pack / generators that provide a special power plug where you can gently loosen the existing plug, slide the generator's plug in place over it, then remove the computer from the main supply while keeping it powered on.

    Power plug locks only buy you time or prevent casual mayhem; the police can work around those.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

    I'm intrigued how that would work with some styles of plug that disconnect before coming out of the socket like the uk type-G plugs. Unless they're not touching the socket itself and connecting somewhere else? I have no idea, i'm not an electrician.

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    It doesn't matter for server class hardware, they generally have dual PSUs to ensure they stay up if one of the two lines fails. So unplug one side, plug in your backup/mobile supply, the disconnect everything else and then run away with the blade

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    This probably works in the UK and US. Rest of Europe, not so much unless you gently strip the cable which is pretty dangerous.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    It's not that dangerous. They make strippers that will only take off the outer insulation, and then you can use vampire taps on the wires.

    Or you might be able to pop the case and jump the power on the DC side. You could easily do that on an ATX power supply, but servers are a little more complicated, because hotplug PSUs use wafer connectors instead of molex plugs.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I just read the manual for the Euro version; basically, they assume you take the power strip/PDU with the computer.

    So, you plug the special UPS into a spare outlet on the PDU; it monitors the power supply, and as soon as power from the PDU drops it jumps in and starts supplying. So plug into an outlet, then unplug the PDU from power, and the UPS takes over. Since at this point the pins on the PDU plug are live, they provide a safety cap to put over the end of the cable. The computer itself is never unplugged.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Should build the software so the second it loses internet connection, or its IP address changes, it clears the ram.

    Cannot move a server without it losing internet, and even if they find a way around it, it’d still force an IP address change.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Seems trivial to code in a beacon dependency and then embed that beacon in the walls or floor so the police would have to dismantle the entire building before being able to find it and take it along for the ride. Or heck a combination of beacons so the police don't know how many to look for.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago

    Free advertising for Windscribe if their claims are true. Also a lot of people in the thread spreading fud about it without any real evidence. I know because I actually tried to search for it. They are based in Canada and as such part of the Nine Eyes group, but they have a heavy no-logs focus towards privacy. What was seized was one of their Dutch proxies running on ram drives. They could put all the effort they want into preserving power, it doesn't mean much if all they don't have any logs except the vaguest of statistics. It doesn't matter how mature they are if the privacy practices are there.

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  • [–] 60 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (11 children)

    Got it, do not use IT services in Denmark Netherlands.

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  • [–] 75 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    Dutch is not Denmark. Dutch is Netherlands

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  • [–] 31 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    “Oh you’re Danish! You should meet my friend Geert Van den Berg, he’s also from Dutchland!”

    If I had a penny for every time, I’d have at least three fiddy.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Goddamn it Loch ness Monster.....

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Police have UPS-like devices which splice into existing mains cables to keep machines alive on the way into the forensics lab. Presumably it’s standard practice to use those.

    Of course, the server could be configured to wipe itself if it loses connectivity for more than a few seconds, or its routing changes. The police would need devices that route Ethernet traffic over 5G, though those would presumably be detectable as bandwidth goes down and latency goes up.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    No clue if data centers in other countries are similar to the ones in the US but the handful I've been in are basically Faraday cages with zero cellphone service inside so it would be quite the feat keeping any kind of internet connection after the ethernet cable is removed.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Oh no, without a warrant. How could they. How impolite. No, our security is only intended for jurisdictions with law-abiding police.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Fun fact, but you can't really do much if the police decide to just take your stuff, because they have guns. And likely more than you do.

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  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    That is why you dont use VPN. See you guys in I2P.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    No, this is just why you don't use Windscribe.

    They have a reputation for being in a legislation where they have to save logs. They themselves know that they're the "black sheep" among VPN providers, which is why they continuously make cheap offers and use raunchy advertising, like this one:

    Doesn't take a genius to figure out that their VPN is likely insecure

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  • 8 comments in c/world@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 24 points 9 months ago*

    Reminder that all we have as a source is the company posting a single tweet, and then immediately used it to advertise how secure they really are.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago*

    Afaik, there was a huge cybercrime op in November 2025. Haven't found any alt sources, except the original windscribe post. It could be that this is still an ongoing operation.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    There are ways that authorities can confiscate a server without powering it off, so RAMdisk may not be sufficient.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Eventually, we're going to have to make our own countries in order to avoid surveillance.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Wondering had come through much worse than this unscathed, one of my favorite VPNs (that doesn't over-advertise)

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Better turn on fire that sever once it came back.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I wouldn’t really trust Ubuntu to not retain confidential information.

    They’re not nearly as bad as MS or Mac. But they still collect private data.

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