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[–] 142 points 9 months ago (4 children)

I used to love Joss Whedon from everything he made. I grew up watching Buffy, and loved Firefly, then Marvel got him for Avengers and I was excited for him to be getting such a big break. He later Agents of Shield which I also loved. But then it came out that he was an abuser. His whole persona of championing strong women was merely a facade to hide this.

Learning that Michelle Trachtenberg (RIP) had a clause in her contract while working in Buffy (2000-3) at age 15 that she was not to ever be in the same room as Whedon alone opened my eyes to just how bad things are. Not just how bad he was, but how well it was known that he was an abuser and no one did anything about it. That's just how things were.

I have a hard time watching Buffy or any of his works anymore, just knowing now that he was behind these things.

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  • [–] 44 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, it also gives me some closure with firefly being cancelled... like I the fox executive cancelled Firefly because he didn't like Whedon, now I know why he didn't like him. Or at least a probable reason.

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  • [–] 34 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    And it didn't give him a chance to be weird and creepy with Summer Glau.

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Any more than he already had been.

    Lest we forget she was introduced to the show naked in a box.

    The man was big into the ‘born sexy yesterday’ trope.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago

    God, the entirely of Dollhouse was the most problematic thing I've ever seen in retrospect (regarding the born sexy yesterday trope) and I can't believe that past me didn't see how messed up everything about it was. That the dolls were turned into helpless blanks between jobs and constantly sexualized in that state was so messed up.

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  • [+] 90 points 9 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Fatherhood was a great book, and I say this as someone that won’t be having any kids.

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  • [–] 90 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    Neil Gaiman. I fucking loved Sandman and damn near everything else he wrote. Finding out he's a total scumbag has basically ruined a lot of very dear memories.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago

    Been looking for this.

    Back in the day I scored a ticket to an Amanda Palmer show, was absolutely floored when he showed up mid-act, completely unannounced. He was one of my favourite writers, a friend to Sir Terry Pratchett (RIP) , and on top of that, someone who seemed like a genuine force for good in the world. I remember that show made my year, I felt so incredibly lucky, like finding a bike under the tree when you're 4.

    Then Good Omens happened, then Sandman, and I was just genuinely happy to see him getting the accolades and recognition.

    Not mincing words here, once the allegations started floating up, I felt so angry and personally betrayed. For every book or show recommendation, for every conversation where I brought him up as one of my personal heroes. I was almost in mourning, I realise that now, and I'm pretty sure my cynicism levelled up as a direct consequence of that experience.

    Fast forward to last week or so, where my RSS feed pings with an article from his blog, the first since the scandal began. He's pointing to a journalist investigation that seems to say the whole thing was a hatchet job. He tries to explain, and this being Neil, the words line up and do his bidding. And I want to fucking believe him, I do. But I can't.

    The absolute worst thing? In spite of everything, I hope he's really telling the truth. How does that make any fucking sense?

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  • [–] 79 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Hulk Hogan. I was such a huge Hulkamaniac as a kid, brother.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Same. I remember thinking he was such a hero when I was like 8. What a douche canoe.

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  • [–] 60 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    Kevin Sorbo as Hercules©®™.

    And I used to listen to the lost profits as a teenager. ultra sigh

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  • [–] 57 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I wouldn't say horrible, but the shine definitely faded off Will Smith.

    He's made some poor choices over the years.

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    My buddy worked in an area that Will Smith occasionally worked.

    At every opportunity, will Smith would go out of his way to meet the people around where he was working, talk with them, get selfies, etc, when there was absolutely no need to do it. This was even later in his career when he was really well-known: he'd be walking down a hallway chatting about electrical stuff with a maintenance guy for no reason. I do believe will smith would also return a shopping cart if tested.

    The thing where he assaulted someone else on live TV was either out of character, or every appearance from the years before was out of character; exclusively so.

    I refuse to believe Will Smith is irredeemable yet.

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  • [–] 52 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    As a teenager I loved to read Lovecraft. It was a way to learn English as a nice side effect because it isn't my native language but that also obscured the appalling racism from me which lead to disappointment when I found out later.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Other people have already confirmed he was a racist, but think Clinical Xenophobe is a more apt distinction. He was a unconformable around minorities, but he was also unconformable about the ocean and the color violet. And he wrote about his discomfort. He didn't write political manifests. This isn't a case of separating the art from the artist, but seeing the art to see the broken person behind it.

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  • [–] 40 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Lovecraft deserves some redemption. First of all he wasn't especially racist, just the "normal" amount for his time (take with a grain of salt please!). More importantly he significantly mellowed out in his later years primarily due to exposure to talented black writers which made him realize the error of his ways.

    But yeah, I wouldn't ask him to name my void cat.

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  • [+] 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)
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  • [–] 38 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    Neil fuckin Gaiman.

    The monster went from my favorite author to a name that elicits rage and disgust.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    A lot of his works are still good. I just won't buy new ones, I won't give him any profits.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago*

    Perhaps in a purely academic limbo of examining the writing techniques, but that's not the world any of us actually live our lives. "Death of the Author" is a cop out, especially when the author still lives.

    Fundamentally I won't ever be able to pick up my teenage favorite Sandman again without seeing the parallels between Neil and Morpheus rape, entrapment and abuse of the women who they lord power over. My own personal emotional connection to any of his character, worlds or stories is irrevocably shattered. I can't view that as a character flaw, but more of a self-insert to Neils personal fantasies.

    It sucks but that is where we are at now. :/

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  • [–] 37 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    I watched The Apprentice when I was a teenager. I seem to have blocked out my memory of how I felt about Trump back then but my aunt says I used to think he was funny. I remember the opening tricked me into believing he was a good businessman (I was a teenager and this was my first introduction to him). I wouldn't say I viewed him as a hero but I guess I liked him as a celebrity. Now he's ruined countless lives. It was the birther conspiracies that made me start to dislike him.

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  • [–] 73 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    I used to think Musk was ok.

    I didn't know anything about him other than he was investing in EV's which I felt the world desperately needed, at a time when it felt like big oil was squashing the uptake.

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  • [–] 34 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Same, I thought he was out to try and save the world from climate change. For me the illusion shattered when he tried to kill California HSR because he would make less in cars. It was never about the environment, it was about being "cool" and then cornering the market.

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  • [–] 37 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah for me it was the Thai kid submarine fiasco. He offered a dumb idea in a life threatening situation and when it was rejected by professional underwater cave diver rescue guy Musk accused the guy of being a pedo.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    I feel like I was fortunate that as soon as I came to understand there was alot of buzz about this guy I wanted to understand why, did some research, and found out that he got lucky twice with corporate mergers making him alot of money.

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  • [–] 36 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Keanu Reeves, I used to really like the guy when the matrix trilogy came out but then he said and did all these super nice things like saying "I don't want to be part of a world where kindness is perceived as weakness".

    Nah just fucking with you. The dude is solid!

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  • [–] 32 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Hulk Hogan. Also, not really a hero, but his work had a log of influence on me- Orson Scott Card. The reasons I liked it so much are kind of cringe looking back as an adult anyway though.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    he had PR because vince gave it to him, because Hes is a union breaker, he often snitch on other wrestlers if they were trying unionize or complain. so he get goodies from daddy vince. Also jesse ventura dint make things better, since he abandoned the wreslters because they couldnt unionize for the fear of retribution from vince McMahon if they attempted to unionize.

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  • [–] 64 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, George Soros. I had a period where I appreciated people who played the system to get rich. Before I understood the system itself is the problem.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Bill Gates

    I remember him as being a scumbag going back to the 80's. Ripping off the Mac GUI, and then going on to bully, absorb and run out of business countless smaller enterprises through strong-arm legal / financial tactics.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    What I find most interesting is that Warren Buffet has come right out said it's weird that society will reward people into being billionaires and has publicly stated that there's is for sure a class war going on and billionaires are winning.

    I think it's nice he's giving most of his fortune away but disappointing he hasn't called for the system that made his fortune to be dismantled.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    because he benefited from that system that gave billionaires that advantage, of courses hes not go to bite the hand that feeds him.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Of all the wealthy people I've ever read about, Buffet seems to actually care about money the least. Like's he's in love with the process in the way that an autistic person loves their hyper focus but if he lost everything, it wouldn't faze him.

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    [–] 30 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    My grandma. She always seemed the sweetest, kindest lady - freely sharing, donating time and her resources to charity. Yet when Orange Shitler was running for reelection, and she shared campaign propaganda with me after I repeatedly asked her but to, and I then shared with her the already overwhelming evidence of his malfeasance, pedofilia and rape, she simply responded that those things didn't matter to her because she thought "he'd be good for the economy."

    I haven't spoken to her since.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Oh yes, the "I elected a garbage human being because I thought he would be better for the economy despite bankrupting more businesses than any known man alive".

    Sad to hear about you Grandmother, but she betrayed so many people by siding with the Nazi.

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  • [–] 57 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    My mother. Turns out she's a narcissistic, fascist Trump-loving Norwegian, who's only been to the USA twice. Last time we spoke, she defended the killing of Good and Pretti, stating that innocent lives can be taken in order to get the Somali fraud.

    I don't talk to her anymore.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    Sorry to hear about yours (and the others in here), mine too, she used to be a clever, kind lady - or I thought she was - now I reflect and realize she fed me poison, abused me, and has no perspective outside of her own shallow little life. I couldn't get her into therapy, and when she started pushing fundraisers for the Good's murderer, I cut her out for good. In response she told me she "won't let" my adult brothers speak to me anymore - yeah that's what I'm talking about, mom. FFS

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    That is not good. I am sad to hear MAGA is alive and well in Norway. :-(

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    Honestly, same. She's not as radical as yours, but I had this idea that my mum was clever, sensible, and capable of critical thought. She used to read a lot, made better political arguments compared to my dad, and somehow managed to raise her children into smart individuals. The combination of me growing up, her getting addicted to Facebook, and the pandemic warped my perception of who my mum really was. She forms emotionally-driven opinions, she jumps to conclusions, she's gullible, and she's close-minded.

    I don't think she would ever justify killing someone, but she's suddenly anti-vax, she's anti-choice and would vote for anyone who vows to maintain that culture, she's obsessed with drag queens and transgender people, and she gets her news from Facebook. All of her comments involve the phrase, "I've seen the comments on Facebook."

    In 2024, I decided to cut contact with her because she kept spreading misinformation and sharing petition links to ban gender-affirming care. And in addition to that, she was preaching about the Olympic ceremony being blasphemous and "woke." My reason for going no-contact with her was that I couldn't bring myself to maintain a relationship with someone who made other people's lives dangerous. Everyone took her side and accused me of causing a drift and being immature because I couldn't handle other people's opinions, apparently.

    I ended up talking to her again after a couple of months because I visited my family and I couldn't avoid her. She was going through a tough time and she was crying so I gave in. I still have a relationship with her but only because I actively choose to live as if I don't know those details about my mum. She's otherwise a good person; she donates to charity and she cares about democracy, the environment, and her children. But whenever I remember the kind opinions that she has, I get angry all over again. It sucks because she was indeed more sensible, but her brain got rotten by social media...

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  • [–] 50 points 9 months ago (6 children)
  • [+] 16 points 9 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)
  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (3 children)
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    [–] 24 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    I was a big Bill Cosby fan, back int he 60s. I had several of his albums, and I'd take them to friends' houses to listen to them.

    I started hearing crazy stuff in the 90s, and then it all turned out to be true. I was heartbroken.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Probably the earliest celebrity from my childhood who turned out to be a POS. I loved Fat Albert.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    One of the reasons that Cosby was such a betrayal was because he had such an appeal to children. We didn't discover him in our teens or adulthood, we followed him as little kids, and his humor became part of our psyche. We had invited him into our minds as a friend, only to later find out that he was a genuine monster.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    You have noticed you don't see much Fat Albert these days?

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, the Bill Cosby As Himself set got quoted a lot in my household growing up.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    "To Russell, My Brother, Whom I Slept With," was my favorite. It was a long, epic story of him and his brother goofing around at bedtime, and their father getting increasingly angry. Still hilarious to this day.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    My childhood heros were the cartoon heros of the 80's. And they all turned out to be lieing to us the whole time. Saying things like "evil never wins", "crime doesn't pay", and all that. They were really just trying to reduce the competition.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    My parents, unfortunately.

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