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[–] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

~25 years ago, in film school, we learned to cut physical film around the same time we learned to cut digitally with an NLE. The debates after class centered around whether digital would ever catch up with film, and what that would mean if/when it did. I interned, then worked for the only local tv station. It took 10 people behind the scenes to run a live newscast. A decade after I graduated, live newscasts in markets 4x the size were being run by 3 people and a ton of automation. Reporters used to have photogs with them; now they often have to set up and record themselves. And it was very strange to watch YouTube turn my career into something the general public kinda does.

That switch, though, did mean that a lot more small-mid companies started hiring videographers to regularly produce and upload videos. These are often solitary jobs, where the videographer is a department of 1 (maybe 2). So we ended up with a job landscape where there are far fewer ensemble and journalist positions, and more isolated, corporate positions. And now that "everyone can make videos with their phone," the value propositions have changed. I'm not a fan, but I've made it work. I don't know how much of this will be directly applicable to what's coming with AI, but I figure it might be of some use to someone.

E: Oh, and that tv station I worked for in college no longer exists. The closest big city took over reporting (poorly) about it. This is becoming more common, as the companies that own stations have gotten larger. So that's one less avenue for new film grads to break into the market.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I hate this cause I just started. I've had a few intimate nights in an IDE slightly wishing I could just get some sleep before work. But I didnt get to take it all the way, to see what I could truly do at my height before this thing showed up and ripped all the ladders down.

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  • 27 comments in c/programming@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 68 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    I disagree about this:

    And yet here we are. The worst fact about these tools is that they work. They can write code better than you or I can, and if you don’t believe me, wait six months.

    I dealt with apache santuario for some xmldsign code and damn, documentation is horrible, only some things in stack overflow worked, but the java docs saved me, I just needed to think about it and rewrite, rewrite and rewrite so the code was legible. Whenever I asked any LLM, they "wrote" code directly from 2005, junior level style, using code patterns directly from the depths of time.

    Edit: These LLMs are dumb as fuck, any non standard thing or completely new things they just shit their datacenter pants and just throws garbage at the screen.

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  • [–] 38 points 9 months ago

    Yeah. I think the only people saying that LLMs can write better code than “us” are the ones who can’t write good code themselves. And thanks to the Dunning Kruger effect, they overestimate their own skill and think they can speak for the rest of us.

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  • [–] 36 points 9 months ago (13 children)

    i'm in embedded systems. i've yet to see an llm manage to do anything even remotely useful in anything close to my field. and i don't predict them being able to anytime soon, because everything is proprietary and locked down to single vendors.

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  • [+] -11 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    So, are you selling out your niche programming community to train the model that replaces you? Or are you waiting for one of your competitor to do it first?

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    well since it's all locked down there's nothing to train on. and if you find something it's usually specific to one device and doesn't transfer.

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  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    it's all locked down there's nothing to train on.

    Not true, it can train on you.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    not really, i'm not allowed to share what i do

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  • [+] -11 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Well that's the kind of quitter attitude they aren't looking for. I guess you're getting sold out by one of your competitors.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    well they don't share their stuff either

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  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Oh, your field is perfectly secure from AI due to your amazing diligence.... Good work.....

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    Not sure how you managed to read that into what he said. There are some domains where there can be no sharing. It's not down to diligence. Nobody can share anything and so LLMs don't know anything. Pretty sure Finance is locked down in the same way as well.

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  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    There are some domains where there can be no sharing

    There absolutely can. You don't need to input an exact copy of a program in under to train a LLM. You just need to teach it input information, process it, and then output it somewhere.

    Any of the programers could create real enough "fake" system models to train the AI.

    I'm just saying that nothing is safe. Even if I seed the LLM victory, general inteligence absolutely wipes the floor.

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  • [–] 26 points 9 months ago

    But then your junior colleagues will eventually code circles around you...

    Probably not. I just ran into a dude who suggested using LLMs to fix misplaced braces in source code.

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago

    So sick of this doomer BS. I went and had a look at Linus' "FoSS vibe coded project" that everyone's been flipping their shit over.

    1. It's only the python UI
    2. It's gluing together matlib and pandas
    3. It's written like a crazy person and I would absolutely reject that if it was a PR.

    Like, it apparently worked for Linus and he also doesn't care to learn python at all. But I was under the impression that these things are supposed to be good at python.

    This was completely unhinged garbage that I'm shocked even worked. It created the same function twice one after the other. We have nested python functions.

    We have these unhinged guard conditions where if navigation is true we return. THEN we immediately set it to be true and at the end of the function we set it to false again. I thought I was high reading that code. If you legitimately think these things are better at writing code then you are, you suck at writing code.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago

    Nah, those tools don't work. Trust me, I'm a Zoomer, I tried them, and they suck !

    When it comes to "Choose two : Good, done Fast, or Cheap" I'm still choosing "Good" twice.

    And laughing at all the fools running into a wall with their AIs, not realizing all they did is choose "Fast" twice instead, but neither Good nor even Cheap.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago

    A junior with a LLM is like a gorilla with a sledge hammer. Good luck getting to to do anything useful. You'll need even more luck getting to not break anything.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Eh, no?

    I still haven't seen AI produce anything remotely reliable within a single function, let alone put multiple functions together, let alone build something with multiple classes, let alone something actually useful, let alone a big project

    Yeah, AI got useful as a rubber Ducky. I use it for getting a sense of possible directions, maybe a fresh idea I hadn't considered sometimes. It saves me from opening up DDG and Ctrl-clicking the first ten results to check all the pages, sometimes.

    But the AI coder inside my IDE still gets code confidently wrong about 70% of the time, and we're talking single lines here and the mistakes are fundamental, like variables that haven't been initialized.

    Having said that, I'm sure that someday someone will.come up with an AI that can do real development and that day it'll be able to develop itself and that day we'll all be properly fucked because that will really quickly delve into something we can't control and something more intelligent than all of us.

    I'm sure some tech bros can't wait for that to happen and I honestly believe we need to rid the world of these idiots before they doom and destroy us all.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    I built a full stack SaaS that is deployed at my work. It is exposed to the internet and I have only used pentesting and asking the ai "what is this" and "fix this" and feature requests.

    It has awful context limitations. Saying "do this" means it overfills context halfway through and loses the nuance as it tries to restart the task after summary. I dont trust it to make a todo list and keep to it. I have to work with the slightly long term "markdown files" as memory.

    I have had good progress when I say "add this pentest_failure/feature_request to an open items list markdown file" then the ai finds context defines the issue and updates the file. Rinse repeat. THEN I say "I want to make a refactor that will fix/implement as many of the open items list issues as possible, can you/the_ai make a refactoring spec". THEN I carefully review the business logic in the refactoring spec THEN I tell the ai to implement the refactoring spec phase 1 then i test then j say do phase 2... etc.

    Design concerns like single source of truth, dry, separation of concerns, and yagni have come up. I have asked about api security best practices. I have asked about test environment vs production.

    I developed without git, and the sheer amount of dumb duct tape code made by no short term memory ai exposed by pentesting was infuriating, but I got a process that works for my level of understanding.

    Ai Skills, rules, etc are still not quite clear to me

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    I mourn it too, because there are dumbasses like this who are buying the hype and setting the industry back by decades as a result.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    So as a senior, you could abstain. But then your junior colleagues will eventually code circles around you, because they’re wearing bazooka-powered jetpacks and you’re still riding around on a fixie bike

    Lol this works in a way the author probably didn't intend. They are wearing extremely dangerous tools that were never really a great idea. They'll code some circles, set their legs on fire, and crash into a wall.

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