Hey everyone.

Government of Türkiye is pushing a new regulation that would force Steam, Epic, PlayStation etc. to appoint local representatives. If they refuse? The whole platform gets banned.

They also want full access to user data and the power to arbitrarily ban "risky" content. This isn't just a Turkish thing, governments everywhere are trying to pull this crap. They think blocking platforms will control us? All they are doing is driving people straight to VPNs and piracy. If you make it impossible to buy games legally, we'll just sail the high seas for free.

Thanks for the boost, I guess.

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[+] 58 points 9 months ago (42 children)
  • [–] [S] 36 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Publishers would just pay the extra fee and pass the cost to us. They care about controlling the data than they do about actual sales. You know.. capitalism.

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago* (15 children)

    It's already up to the developer whether or not they use Steam's DRM. And fucktons of games from small devs already don't use it.

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  • [+] 5 points 9 months ago (14 children)
  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (13 children)

    Yes. You can even copy the installed files and just launch the executable on another machine that doesn't even have Steam installed.

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  • [+] 3 points 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    That's the thing. The vast majority of people are happy to support game devs and the steam service. That's probably why this is not an issue causing vast losses.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    How do you play games without launching steam? Can you give me a quick step by step instructions in this matter?

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    So long as the game is DRM-free, you just go to the install location and run the exe file.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (6 children)

    not really? you need goldberg emu or another steam emulator, otherwise games will get confused that they can't communicate with a steam client for achievements and whatnot

    but yeah it's just about dropping 2 files besides the game exe and done

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  • [+] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    The games not confused it's the fact your trying to use steam with out it being there and the dll that calls for it can't find it.

    that's what I meant by the game being confused. that the game depends on steam, but does not find it anywhere, so cannot work, unless a steam emulator is used as a standin.

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  • [+] 2 points 9 months ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (2 children)

    if the game uses steam DRM, steam emulators cant do anything with that. you additionally need a separate tool that strips the steam DRM

    see here: https://gitlab.com/Mr_Goldberg/goldberg_emulator/blob/master/README.md

    (Assuming the games have no DRM and use Steam for online).

    but indeed, it seems not all games need it:

    If you are a game developper and made the mistake of depending too much on the steam api and want to release of version of your game without it and don't want to rewrite your game, this is for you.

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  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

    DRM, digital locks, hardware locking fuses etc. should be illegal. If I buy a car I can change the lights, swap out the engine, do whatever I want with it, it's mine, I own it. Why shouldn't I be able to do the same with my phone or game? Why should some company have the right to tell me what I can and can't do with my own property that I paid for? That's not DRM (digital rights management) because they have no right to manage my property, it's OSM (ownership subversion mechanism) and that's what we should call all that anti consumer bullshit.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    If I buy a car I can change the lights, swap out the engine, do whatever I want with it, it's mine, I own it.

    I'd argue that modern cars behave very similar to DRM-protected games.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    It's not similar, it's the exact same crap. Yeah you can change the tires of your choice, as well as the cover for your phone or the sleeve for your laptop, but that's about as far as you can go with your 'new' car nowadays.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    you can change the tires of your choice

    Not if they have integrated pressure sensors.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    I'm confused, honestly. How can TPMS force you to brand or models of tires? Honest question, I had no idea that was even possible. Can TPMS also know the type of rim? Now I'm concerned.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I'm not a car expert, but from my perspective everything that has microchips increases the burden for DIY as you need special hardware and software to pair, program, reset that stuff. In case of tires I already had the case that I had to go to another car repair shop, because the one I usually go to didn't have the right device to reset the sensor and pair it again with the car.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Still waiting for the day Steam bites the bullet and just publish titles DRM free by default

    They already do. Steam DRM is explicitly opt-in and the Steamdwork documentation even underlines that Steam DRM is a very weak form of DRM. Denuvo isn't by Valve/Steam and also opt-in.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Steam DRM can be bypassed without even modifying the game files (using open-source software no less), it is not the boogeyman people say it is. If the internet broke, or Steam was gone you could still easily play these games, and software like Goldberg would be well accepted by people.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    What we need is an alternative store where opensource games can make money. That would change the business.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (12 children)

    Valve's better than Epic Games, but they still have every incentive to keep users in their ecosystem with DRM. To that end, the Steam Deck's Proton compatibility layer and touchpad driver are integrated into Steam, rather than functioning independently of it.

    Using the Steam Deck is possible without buying any games on Steam, but making Steam the core part of the distribution inherently encourages its usage.

    Edit: I like the Steam Deck, but I don't think it's unreasonable to point out the aspects of the platform designed to encourage the use of Steam.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Valve's better than Epic Games, but they still have every incentive to keep users in their ecosystem with DRM.

    Very true.

    Thats why Proton on the Steam Deck only works with Steam running in the background.

    Lmao what? You have proof for this? It's just as likely that it was easier to do it the way they did.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

    Wine can be set up in a similar way, but Valve's default setup is designed to for use with Steam first and foremost.

    A bigger issue is that the Steam Deck touchpads don't work without Steam being open. A more open approach would have been to write independent driver software for the touchpads.

    Valve's far and away better than Nintendo, but has still designed the Steam Deck to be heavily reliant upon Steam to function. The Steam Deck is priced in a way that anticipates increased consumer usage of Steam, but in isolation of Steam, it would be more usable as a Linux PC if it were more software-agnostic.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago*

    Meanwhile I play all my GOG games on my SteamDeck. Sure it runs SteamOS and Steam in a sort of Big Picture Mode, but it's still just a Linux PC, you're free to use whatever software on there in Desktop mode, and then you can add all the apps and games you want to the Steam launcher, and run them that way. You're not forced to stay in Steam, nor are you forced to only buy games from Steam. You can exit Steam on the Desktop mode and still use Proton to play Windows games, but that leaves you with more overhead running than when you do it from Steam in the big picture mode.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Encouraging is one thing, and of course any business wants to encourage their consumers to, we'll, consume from them. However, that is not what Epic does, or Buggysoft, or any of the other giants. They FORCE their consumers into a whole lot of crap to FORCE money out of them. Encouraging and forcing are 2 completely different terms.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Valve is definitely the best and the most innovative, particularly in contrast to Epic's attempt to bribe their way to success and intentionally ignoring Linux, but even the best have their faults.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago*

    Absolutely agree, everyone, institutions or individuals, have flaws. I was just pointing out that Valva is not comparable to most, if not all, the big names in gaming in terms of following a more customer-centric culture.

    It stands to reason that they want their DRM to be used, otherwise, why even design it, right? The 'forcing' part on many factors that Epic and most others resort to is what really grinds my gears.

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    [–] 30 points 9 months ago

    Don’t be confident in the idea that VPNs will escape regulatory notice. The open web as we know it is rapidly being maimed.

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I bet steam will create a "Steam (Turkey)" as a child company to deal with this.

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    [–] 25 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    No wonder EU has frozen their membership application. They backslid into autocracy.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    I don't think thats a unfair ask. One local representative in each country seems perfectly fair for me.

    Being said? the user information part? strictly locked to their own content. If the user account is registered in that country they have access. Providers could 100% do that with most operational databases out there. It's a requirement for stores in order to do payment information. Steam and Epic already do this as it is.

    Should they be able to access that information in the first place is a different discussion, that needs to be had in that corresponding country, but if the country has already decided it needs access to continue, there's no reason it should have access to all user data. The only thing they really have claim to is their own countries data.

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  • [–] [S] 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    The issue is not the rep, it's the vague "content oversight." If the goverments can ban anything they deem "risky" that's censorship not regulation. That's exactly why piracy will explode. Let the game begin..

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago*

    Fully agree. if they actually go through with banning it, piracy will thrive. People aren't going to just not play games as a result of not having access to a game. Smaller launchers will rise, people will download from other sources. A method of obtainment will be found.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Countries do this way more often than you think... they have always done that with movies preventing official releases or releasing edited versions, and as for games tons have localized versions since ever, from censorship of nudity in Japanese games in the USA market to censorship of Nazi flags in games in Germany and even LGBT references in tons of Eastern countries. I'd love if piracy exploded because fuck them billion dollar companies, but they usually just change a few art assets and that's it.

    What type of content you fear your government may consider risky? Is someone there in a paranoia of video games causing violence?
    Unless they would be banning stuff like GTA, Call of Duty and Battlefield entirely because of violence, I really doubt gamers would go out of their way in enough numbers to cause any ruckus just because they absolutely have to play the version of the game that has an LGBT flag in some building or certain character is transgender.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    turkiye already has been targeting dissent for a while, this is a next step.

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  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

    That's a very common and very reasonable request, and given the size of Turkey, I don't think they'd prefer to lose the whole market there instead of having a lawyer in the country to deal with local legal requests.

    Only when it's companies run by manchildren, like X and Rumble, they go on the internet to cry about censorship and shit when they pikachu-face-discover they have to follow a country's laws to operate in that country.

    ps: You are already not buying games when you pay for them on Steam.

    edit: To people downvoting: are you also mad that Valve/Epic/PSN/etc has to follow GDPR data regulations for EU citizens and keep representatives there, or is sovereignty only bad when a non–first-world country dares to claim it?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    ps: You are already not buying games when you pay for them on Steam.

    True, use GOG.

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  • [+] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    OK, sure. If Valve bans you, how are you going to install your games?

    I know that on GOG I can download the installer, back it up, share it with friends and family, and they can install it. Do the same with Steam.

    And finally, Valve is a USAian company. GOG is European. That is pretty important.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    As long as the game on steam isn't using a DRM like Denuvo, Enigma, etc then I can backup and play them even without steam.

    It's just that if the game uses Steam DRM then I'd have to use a steam emulator like Goldberg/gbe_fork to play the game. Sometimes you'd also have to remove SteamStub DRM from the game exe files using Steamless.

    GOG is easier since you don't need to mess with steam emulators and such. You also won't run into the issue of having to manually create windows registry entries that some old games need. GOG installers will create those windows registry entries for you.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    To people downvoting: are you also mad that Valve/Epic/PSN/etc have to follow GDPR data regulations for EU citizens and keep representatives there, or is sovereignty only bad when a non–first-world country dares to claim it?

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