Both. Both are good.
Daylight for the work rooms and things like home-office or homework desks, warm light for cozy couch corners and bedrooms.
Or go full high-tech and install lights with adjustable color temperature.
Both. Both are good.
Daylight for the work rooms and things like home-office or homework desks, warm light for cozy couch corners and bedrooms.
Or go full high-tech and install lights with adjustable color temperature.
It's curious seeing people equate warm lighting with old people and old homes. Maybe it's just my region but everybody (especially boomers) switched to CFLs when those came out and then to the cheapest, nastiest cool LEDs with cornea-melting levels of blue light after that. Sometimes I feel like the only sane person when I'm walking around and seeing the insides of houses lit up the same color as you'd get from a $5 flashlight 15 years ago.
I have 4000k in the kitchen and bathroom and 2700K or 3000K everywhere else. After reading this thread I'm considering finding some high CRI adjustables because I also find the 4000k lights pretty harsh at night.
the only smart house thing I envy is temperature adjustable lights automaticly adjusting the temperature according to the time of day
some thing like that could bring the best of both worlds easily, I find higher temperatures more pleasing at day but like you they are too harsh for me at night
I have a couple lifx bulbs and my partner brought like 8 cheapo Chinese ones with her when we moved in together. It is quite nice. The LIFX bulbs give much higher quality light and better color, but the ability to schedule lights out and wake up to artificial sunrise is incredibly nice regardless. As cool as that is I would not recommend WiFi bulbs to anyone for the following reasons:
I'm keeping them because the lady likes them and at present, everything works so long as I don't touch anything. I'd like to try using zigbee bulbs because they solve a lot of the problems I have with WiFi bulbs but replacing the system I have would be expensive, even after liquidating the old ones on eBay.
2700K is the closest to firelight. I refuse to abandon thousands of years of archetypal affection for cheap LED false suns.
They remind me of the old style fluorescent circle lights from the 50s, where they were almost green.
More than even color temperature I'm shocked at the number of people who illuminate their rooms with four clear-glass bulbs in the ceiling fan, so bright you can't even look at them from the sidewalk. Have these people never heard of a lamp? You can practically see the shadows of dust motes in the air against the sterile white walls.
Just heard about a phenomenon where people paint their houses white right before selling them (I assume apartments too) and then the new people won't paint on fairly new paint so they end up keeping the bland colors.
Some people probably depend on their lightbulbs to make the walls look yellow instead of white, I can see those cases comparing the light to a hospital.
I personally like cooler lighting, but there's too much color around to feel like a hospital in my case.
Modern led bulbs can do both and then with home assistant you can script it so the color temperature changes through the day as the sun changes.
In the morning my house is cool light around 6500k and over the day it warms up to about 3k
You don't even need to script it. Just use the Adaptive Lighting custom integration. You can sync your light color temperature with the sun, or customize it any way you like.
I came here to see if anyone mentioned Home Assistant + Adaptive Lighting. Every single lightbulb in my house is at least a colour temperature bulb and most of them are controlled by Adaptive Lighting. It's hard to explain just how well it works and how nice it is to have a nook or hallway be ceiling lit and daylight-bright during the day, then warm and cozy by lamplight in the evening.
It's hard to explain just how well it works and how nice it is to have a nook or hallway be ceiling lit and daylight-bright during the day, then warm and cozy by lamplight in the evening.
Completely agree. I only run it in the living room as it's north facing and can feel a bit dark.
Besides the light bulbs being coloured, are they a special kind? I tried to find high CRI lighting and ended up replacing the led strips in a cheap LED panel with Auxmer led strips.
I tend to find that white tone bulbs work better than RGB for getting room lighting right, though you can get RGBWW bulbs which do well at both. Honestly I'm not attached to any specific brand but I've had consistently good experiences with IKEA Tradfri and Lidl Silvercrest bulbs, which both work with Zigbee.
They also make bulbs that automatically change as you dim them since a smart bulb may not be practical or even possible everywhere.
Incandescent did this without software.
It also generated a ton of heat without software. Everything has its pros and cons.
Yeah, but they are generally banned over here in the EU so it's good rhat there's alternatives that does the same but are also energy efficient.
I use red bulb (or just leds now) unironically, I can see good enough to walk at night and they don't fucking hurt my eyes like dumbass white bulbs. Seriously how do people use those white bulbs? Just going to a hospital is painful.
This is why I donβt use them.
The paint in my living room looks diarrhea brown and corpse gray under warm light. Itβs purple and blue, and there are a lot of windows so I canβt plan for warm light as a default like I can in bedrooms. Daylight bulbs keep the color what it should be.
As a side note, one of the reasons why cold white LED light bulbs are a thing is because they're a bit more efficient than warmer light colors.
The reason is because they all just have 2 kinds of light emiting diode (LED) junctions inside - red and blue - plus a phosphorus layer on top that smooths those two perfect lightwave color peaks in the wavelength domain into a broader light spectrum, and the blue is more efficient than the red, so lamps with a higher proportion of blue emitters to red emitters - and which hence emit more light towards the blue end of the spectrum (i.e. a colder white) - will emit more light for the same power consuption than those with more red emitters and hence whose light is more towards the red side of the spectrum (i.e. a warmer white).
EDIT: So it turns out part of this which I learned 10 years ago is outdated. The efficiency thing is true but when I went looking for how phosphors (the layer between the LED emitters and the outside, which absorbs the single wavelength light from the LEDs and emits light with different wavelengths) prompted by the points made by another poster, from places like this it turns out that red LED emitters aren't at all used anymore, only UV and blue (whose light the phosphor then converts into light with different spectrum distributions depending on the material of the phosphor). If you search for it a number of recent scientific papers pop up around various such materials.
There's practically no chance this knowledge will ever benefit me, but I'm happy to learn something new regardless. Thanks for sharing!
It seemed odd the lower frequency diodes would be less efficient so I did a quick bit of reading and it seems like red light is efficient, but red and blue light aren't as effectively picked up by the human eye as green and because each light has a different operating voltage there are some consequences.
From what I read the things that makes white lights more effiecient is they only use blue diodes which probably means less circuitry is needed to operate than two sets of alternating diodes and there's less difficulties going from higher frequency (aka higher energy) to low via filters. Hence efficient green light, blue light and red light at a single voltage.
From what I read last time I properly looked into this (so, almost a decade ago when I was considering setting up a business importing LED lamps), the blue light emitting diode junction simply uses less power to emit the same amount of light.
Electrically speaking it's no bigger or lesser a problem in terms of circuitry to have just blue diodes or blue + red diodes in there since they're bundled in blocks of diodes in series (and then multiple blocks are in parallel) and the only thing that differs between those two kinds of junctions from a circuit point of view is the drop voltage of one kind of diode being different from that of the other (diode junctions done with different dopants have different drop voltages), something you take into account in the design stage when deciding how many LED diodes you use per block or what DC voltage will your 110v/220V AC input be converted to to feed those LED strings.
More specifically for LED light bulbs, the messy stuff in terms of electronics is the circuitry that converts the 220v/110v AC input into a lower voltage DC suitable for the LEDs whilst limiting the current (as diodes' only ability to "limit" current is them burning out from overheating due to too much current), not the actual LEDs.
But I'll put it even simpler: if the problem was indeed simplicity as you believe, then LED bulbs with only red LEDs would also be very common as they're simpler than blue+red ones.
You can't easily use a filter to turn red light into blue. Imo if you needed to light a room for a camera or something not the human eye, red seems like it would be effective for that, but given the filter situation and the eye being best at detecting green light it doesn't make sense to use red as the base color for indoor bulbs.
From what I read, red LEDs were most efficient at 1.8v and blue more near 4v. Maybe its trivial to do second voltage line but the filter situation is probably the limiting factor here.
Here are the LED drop voltages for reference.
LEDs aren't just more efficient at those voltages, those are literally the difference in voltage between one side of the LED and the other side when in operation - if you feed it less than that the LED will simply not work. (Note that these drop voltages are not actually an absolute value but rather a very steep curve relative to current, but for simplification we can treat those as absolute ON/OFF voltage values).
Also the phosphor doesn't filter light - rather it absorbs light and re-emits it in different wavelengths, the process being such that the emitted light covers a range of wavelengths even if the input light has a single wavelength as is the case for LEDs - so it's not at all light manipulation by filtering and mixing light sources.
That said I went looking at how phosphor is used in LEDs nowadays and judging from this they don't use red LEDs emitters at all nowadays, only blue and UV ones, and then chose a phosphor (which can be any substance, not just Phosphorous) whose emission range is towards the desired light range.
I've corrected my original post.
The phosphorous coating here is serving to reduce the amount of blue light as an absorptive filter. Its just also doing other stuff. Idk if there's a proper term for what its doing in whole, but your explanation is otherwise in line with what I've read.
That's not even close to reality.
Read the material linked or just google it yourself.
your explanation is otherwise in line with what Iβve read.
Thatβs not even close to reality
That's a bit incoherent.
Fwiw, I did read the article you linked. That's one of the articles I looked at originally.
I'm just saying its innapropriate to say its "not a filter" because the coating is doing more than partially filtering a wavelength of light; Its a categorical error.
The coating's primary engineering function is not a filter, so maybe its frustrating to hear it described as one but it is absolutely incorrect to say its not a filter because one of things its literally doing is filtering out a % of the blue light emitted by the diode.
A phospor absorbs the incoming light and then uses it as power for its own emission process, in a processes called "fluorescence" rather than "filtering". It's a very efficient process because almost all of the light coming in and absorbed by the fluorescent material ends up used to emit light.
A filter just cuts out (literally "filters out") things other than what it's supposed to let through. Filters just block stuff and thus cannot have on their output anything that's not present on their input. Further, filtering can be very inefficient because everything that the filter doesn't let through just ends up as waste heat.
Filtering doesn't make any sense for light emitted by a diode junction because that specific light emission process emits light of a single wavelength - it's a totally different process from incandescence and only emits photons whose energy exactly matches a specific quantum gap in that junction, hence all emitted photons have the exact same wavelength, thus there are no other wavelengths in the light emitted by the diode to filter out - thus if you filter out that specific wavelength, no light at all goes through the filter because there's nothing else there.
Calling a phospor a "filter" is like calling a system with a solar panel connected to a green LED a "filter" - sure, the spectrum of the light coming in is not the same as that of the light going out, but that's pretty much the only way the thing behaves the same as a filter - it does not share any of the other characteristics of a filter.
Anybody with a Physics or Engineering background will react the same as me when somebody describes a fluorescent material in front of a light source as "a filter" because per the scientific and engineering definitions "fluorescence" is not at all the same as "filtering".
Whatever source you learned information about LED lights from, it's really bad and shows no domain expertise, which is probably why you ended up with some things right in your explanations and others horribly wrong. If I was to guess, I would say that you "learned" it from AI, as getting the general stuff mostly right and the domain expertise details incredibly wrong is a common problem of AI.
I was looking at exactly the same pages you were. Try reading those articles (or use ctrl+f) if you want to know where the filter discription is from.
You don't need to concoct a fictional story about where the information came from. Its clear your purpose here isn't to inform anyone at this point. If you've ever talked to an engineer prior to this you would not have this opinion of my colleages.
And the analogy here is so bad. If the solar panel were partially transparent and part of system (the resulting spectra) was dependent on that transparency it would work.
Engineers say its "acting as a filter" because thats a way of analyzing the system. For all and intents and purposes anything can effectively be modeled as a filter in certain design situations has been called a filter. So yes, engineers do talk like this.
Source: used to work in an electronics hardware development lab with electrical, optical, and software engineers.
Mate, I have a Masters in Electronics Engineering and a partial degree in Physics.
I just didn't want to pull the authoritativeness card out, so instead tried to explain things to you from basic principles.
You're either confusing some other application with what I was talking about - which was the emitters used in LED light bulbs, the ones which look yellow when they're switched off, the yellow stuff being the phospor - or you mentally over-generalized something you heard, either to an area were it doesn't apply or missing the required context to make sense.
You keep throwing conjectures out there based on somewhat head scratching assumptions. And you're doing it again. I am not an electrical engineer, but I have worked in the industry long enough to know the electronic definition of filter is not the optical definition and often optical engineers do model things as filters for ease. I write engineering reports for a living. I do the english part of the engineering because they're usually pretty bad at it.
When I said that I am in agreement with everything you said except referring to the phospher as "not a filter" I was fully aware of what the coating was doing. I concurred with that. And you said it was nowhere close to reality. Which is truly incoherent.
What I'm saying you're muddying things by saying its not a filter. This is the sort of thing the electrical and optical engineers would say during meetings and the project managers would get annoyed because they'd both be talking past each other.
So like knowing you're an electrical engineer here isn't surprising. Engineers (and especially electrical engineers in my experience, probably the lead exposure) in general are abysmally bad writers, poor communicators and often overstate their disagreements by being unaware of their audience. Its why I'm called in to clean up their messes.
plus a phosphorus layer on top that smooths those two perfect lightwave color peaks in the wavelength domain into a broader light spectrum
The phosphor absorbs some of the blue and downconverts it to green and red. Some of the blue is let through for us to see. The mixture of R, G and B looks like white to us (but not necessarily to other animals with different cones in their eyes).
2 kinds of light emiting diode (LED) junctions inside - red and blue
I've never seen a red LED die inside a white LED. I've only ever seen blue dies on their own.
Technically UV-pumped white LEDs exist, but they're rare and I've never seen one. They're less efficient and require a third phosphor (to make the blue).
You can remove the yellowish looking phosphors on the LED with a small pick to reveal the blue die underneath. Fun fact: some high-power "red" LEDs are actually blue leds + phosphors, not that it's a particularly good choice but it's a thing: https://halestrom.net/darksleep/blog/018_led_cob_cutting/
I wasnβt expecting to feel so seen at this ungodly hour
Cold light is so clinical and miserable, and I refuse to have it in my vicinity at night if I can help it.
I dunno why, but warm lighting at night just makes me feel depressed. I need daylight bulbs across my house. Adjustable brightness preferred though, so I'm not blinding myself at night.
i put one of these in a ceiling fan and my roommate started referring to it as The Sun
she's not wrong but i like to be able to easily see the stuff on my desk I'm tinkering with ffs
White light is a must for makeup, or any time where you need to see colors accurately. Otherwise give me yellow all the way lol. I love the coziness.
Or, and hear me out. Get one that you can change. On a gloomy day, during the daytime have it at daylight white. In the evening a nice 2700k.
Am I the only one who doesnβt replace light bulbs based on color temperature? I usually keep around whatever is already in the rental unit/whatever spares the last tenants left around, because I usually move every year anyway.
In the rare chance I get a choice, I usually choose daylight though.
Most people I know who do care.
Change all of the bulbs when they move in. Throw the old bulbs in a box.
Put the old bulbs back when you move out.
Use the new bulbs at the next apartment.
Some of them also have smart bulbs and those are way too expensive to give away.
I definitely have four different temperatures in my tiny studio. I imagine that would set a sort of person on edge.
I don't go out of my way to replace light bulbs with all these smartbulbs that have day/night cycles.
That being said, if they go out, I normally pick a smartbulb because the price difference isn't that much for all it offers in return.
I've been working remotely from 3 to 10 PM and the gradual change in color temperature both from the smartbulb and my screen really helps me take it easy as my shift is ending.
Part of my job is selling lighting.
The following conversation takes place at least once a day without falter:
X: Iβd like one light like this please (puts some form of light on the table)
ME: ok (goes through the script to make sure they know what they want/itβs compatible/β¦yaddayadda).
X: oh and it needs to be warm in colour.
ME: 2700k got it.
X: yes, but like warm right? Because itβs led.
(Variant: the rando looking for something small for his toilet. βOh you know, something like 18000 lumens and 60000kβ
You value your eyes at all?)
Take them up on their offer of lumen output and show off one of these bad boys.
That's a neat form factor.
I have something like this mounted in a torchiere floor lamp. high output (something like 15000LM) and a cool color temp (6500K I think). My office has daylight when I turn it on, but it's aimed up, indirect and high enough it's not generally in line of sight. Probably would have used the bulb above if I could find cob lights when I bought this one.
Daylight bulbs are everywhere in Japan and it's so strange. I tried looking for warm light bulbs at a local store and they don't even stock them as an option. I do see them used in some people's houses so I'm sure it's not universal, but the prevalence of daylight/cool bulbs is weird to me, I'm very much warm bulb gang.
Daylight is full-spectrum, not just cool. Flicker-free and high color rendering index. If you can get that in a bulb (bit more expensive than cheap LEDs) it's quite nice indoors.
Daylight spectrum is skewed by time of day from blue shifted to red shifted.
I just want to be able to slaughter a pig if I need to. Gotta do that under cool whites my guy.
There are ones that are adjustable. I don't have to choose one or the other.
This is the kind of constructive, rational and informed opinion that flies in the very face of the concept of internet forums and everything for which they stand. If you won't rabidly advocate for an extreme position on an insignificant issue with an irrationally vitriolic diatribe, what are you even doing here? This is Lemmy Shitpost. Please observe the appropriate decorum, and comment accordingly. So fuck you and the ISP you rode in on. You can have my daylight bulbs when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers.
ha! imagine shilling for light bulbs that only has one color! couldn't be me!
(am i doing it right?)
Thank you for the phrase "and the ISP you rode in on" which I will be shamelessly stealing from you
But you do.
You just choose every minute of every day instead of each time when you run out to Home Depot so you can finish whatever you were doing.
Warm white 2700-3000k is fine for bedrooms Soft white 3500k is better for awake spaces that aren't task spaces White/Daylight 5000k+ is for getting things done, I use them in the garage, the basement, and for some of the kitchen lights
I used to hate integrated LED fixtures, but I put in under-cabinet lighting that can switch color temp so that is nice because I can set it to daylight during meal prep and warm during eating.
Modern society is telling me I need to take melatonin.
I tell modern society I make my own melatonin, and sleep perfectly fine because my lights are warm in the evening.
WoHo, mΓster not addicted to your phone who doesn't watch it in bed.
We can't all be like you.
Jokes aside, swtiching to a eink reader helped my sleep so much it's not funny
I'm fully addicted to my phone, but, if I try to watch it in bed.... I'll be laying on it in 20 minutes. Don't know what it is, I hit the bed, I pass the fuck out. pretty sure it could be on fire and i'd just die there.
We accidentally installed a white light bulb in the hallway outside my bedroom. It made me feel so pissed off and on edge every time my door was open and someone turned that light on.
Once we swapped it to a warm bulb I was much more chill.
I do keep a tunable light bulb in a task lamp, but the rest of the lighting in the house is warm.
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