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[–] 70 points 9 months ago (4 children)

This is not gonna go well.

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  • [–] 46 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Hopefully it fails spectacularly and quickly. Like the ai rerouted all sewage into the drinking water and the entire town has to be evacuated within a week.

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  • [–] 68 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Let me guess, nobody asked anyone in that town if they want to participate in the experiment...?

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    [+] 26 points 9 months ago* (5 children)
  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Barnsley is near to where I hail from. This is depressing to hear.

    When people ask me about where I'm from, I semi-affectionately describe it as a "shit hole up North". The socioeconomic deprivation just oozes out of the cracks in every paving slab. I suspect this is part of why they're the ones doing this scheme — taking advantage of desperation

    I was quite involved in local politics during the extreme austerity cuts of the 2010s Tory government, and I genuinely believe that there is some level of collective trauma caused by them. Places like Barnsley were hit the worst because they were already not doing great socioeconomically. As much as I may condemn any local officials who were a part of this godforsaken partnership with big tech, I also have a tremendous amount of sympathy for them.


    Edit: I wanted to add something positive, even if it is a bit bittersweet in light of this announcement.

    The European Access City Award is an initiative that recognises European cities that are doing good work for improving accessibility for disabled people of all sorts — both those who live there, and those who visit. It recognises different facets of accessibility, including modifications to the built environment, public transport accessibility and important information being provided in a variety of ways.

    There have been 3 UK cities that have been mentioned as part of this award. Chester actually won it in 2017, and is the only UK city to do so. However, when I was checking for any other UK cities, I was surprised to see that Barnsley, of all places, was one of the two cities that got a special mention (the other being Belfast, which is less surprising to me).

    Below is an excerpt from the 2011 publication where Barnsley gets this special mention. It's nothing too exciting, but what is most notable to me is that the progress towards increasing accessibility is framed against the backdrop of Barnsley being, in my words, a bit of a shithole. Places like this are in particular need of person-centred governance, which is why the OP is so disheartening to read. (Sorry for wall of text. I considered putting it in a screenshot, but it felt hypocritical, given that this is about accessibility)

    Knowing as much about AI as I do, it's hard to see this "tech-town" nonsense as anything but harmful for accessibility. This perfectly encapsulates the wistful sadness I feel towards the place where I hail from.


    "Barnsley is a metropolitan borough (population 226 000) in the Yorkshire and Humber region of England which particularly impressed the judges for its initiatives in the area of services to people with disabilities.

    The borough is unique in the UK context in that it has a much higher incidence of disability than the national average. One quarter of the population of Barnsley is disabled, with 13 % of the working age population claiming incapacity benefit or severe disablement allowance, compared to an average 7 % in England.

    The Council believes that access to goods, services and facilities is important to all people with disabilities if they are to enjoy independence, choice and equality. The borough has therefore been implementing a three year plan (ending March 2012) to provide a range of services to people with disabilities that are located in places that are easy to get to.

    Involving people with disabilities The ‘Remaking Barnsley’ initiative, a comprehensive programme for the transformation of the urban centre adopted in 2009, involves local people with disabilities at all stages in the design and development of new buildings and public spaces to ensure the highest possible standards of accessibility.

    The process has already delivered the new transport Interchange – formerly Barnsley Exchange Station – a fully enclosed passenger environment that has greatly improved access for disabled people. The next phase of Remaking Barnsley covers the rebuilding of large parts of the town centre and public spaces. This provides even greater opportunities to achieve Barnsley’s long-term ambition to become ‘the most accessible market town in Britain’ "

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  • [–] 24 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    It’s not all genAI. One example they give is scanning the road surface with the bin lorries. Not a bad idea

    AI assistants for the last couple of years in adult social care and children’s services

    Fuck no. What the fuck? That’s sick.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    One example they give is scanning the road surface with the bin lorries.

    People who drive on those streets could have an easy way to report road issues, and frequently they do. The actual hurdle for doing anything about potholes is almost always a lack of funding for road repairs.

    Doing some kind of complex electronic sensor system is a waste of money compared to making it easy for people to quickly and easily report issues.

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago

    So it seems the UK doing speed run for absolute terrible country.

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago
    [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    Let’s hope the children can sue the UK and all these companies for fucking up their education.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    Turns a small city into the Combine which then starts to push further outwards and outwards swallowing everything in its path.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago
    [–] 3 points 9 months ago
    [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Let's see how this will end up

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  • 28 comments in c/world view that post
    [–] 30 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    „Tech town“ and not a single European startup. Is there nobody here working on these things?

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago

    America is exporting fascism to the world via all their multinationals, and our psychopath ruling classes welcome them with open arms, because it's one big club of lawless criminals and pedophiles.

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  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    A 'tech town' just sounds like 'company town' with extra steps.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    There aren't even any extra steps, that's exactly what it is

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    Barnsley for anyone wondering where so they can avoid like the plague

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    AI IS a plague - it's infecting everything.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

    Meh, AI in the way it's most commonly presented is no more or less offensive than any other corposlop in the last decade tbqh. If anything at least it does something. The debate of whether it steals and reproduces or whether that's studying and remixing is tired, I don't think I've seen anyone make a single coherent argument that convinced me it was any different to a person studying, remembering and regurgitating a summary.

    But this is all irrelevant sectarian distraction created by the ultra rich to divide the poor and generate debate and gather attention and hype, attract media's fearmongering and thus pump up the stocks.

    However, the solution to the entire issue is very simple - if AI is so useful - it belongs in the public domain in the hands of the commons.

    It's development, support infrastructure and uses should be transparent and open to scrutiny with regards to usefulness and sustainability, and the end product should be open to use for free for anyone at the point of use and without the possibility of deriving any sort of copyright from it's output with enforced copyleft licensing, to acknowledge that the training data which made it possible belongs to everyone.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Uh.... No we can be against AI without it dividing the working class.

    I'm at a loss really with this comment, it's no worse than any other corpo slop? At least it does something? Neither of these statements are true

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children)

    The former is an opinion, the latter is absolutely true and you are utterly delusional if you think that gippity et al. literally do not do anything or even that they do not provide value. You are in a bubble, they can be (and are presently used in some cases) in a genuinely helpful way, even if they are misused by the vast majority and that many of the pitched use cases are complete nonsense used by corpos to inflate stock value.

    No we can be against AI without it dividing the working class.

    No you can't, because pointing to AI as the problem instead of capitalism is undermining the discussions we should be having with pointless identity politics and culture wars over AI vs no-AI. It's pointless fluff and detracts from the discussions we should be having about incentives and goals in and of society. And then we naturally wade in to the whole philosophical mess about the nature of art and discover that actually many people have entirely different conceptions of what art is, what isn't art, what's a craft and what isn't and what it means to be an artist, and if there's a difference between creativity and skill.

    Thus, we stand divided, while they take more and more of everything.

    This AI culture war, which exists only because the valuations of companies like OpenAI balloon every time it's brought up as being the cause of all ills - this is because the cause of all ills is a powerful and valued thing and so the values go up, not to mention news about such things gets lots of clicks - and that's why this dichotomy is being pushed on you, and that is why you think the things you do the way you do and why you use the words that you do.

    This is the same process that ultimately dismantled left wing politics in the west after the fall of the soviet union - it worked by reframing the discussion around environmentalism and green politics, and now it's the same - reframing the discussion to be about "technology" Vs. "no technology" when it's obviously value neutral and only it's uses and the policies that shape incentives that create those use cases that are the topic of discussion we should be having.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    Do you somehow think I'm not against capitalism? AI is part of that

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (2 children)

    No, you should actually read my entire comment, and if you think "AI is part of capitalism" or that I think you are "not against capitalism" then read it again and keep reading it, and try to understand what I am saying rather than go off 'vibes' of what I am saying.

    Think critically - think about it and process it, follow the logic from the base assumptions, the premises, to the end conclusion, and then if you pinpoint a logical flaw or imperical evidence that contradicts the base assumptions, then feel free to point it out.

    AI is not part of that, "AI" is not capitalism - it is not part of capitalism, or part of communism or anything in between - it is a technology.

    Think of it this way: are you against splitting the atom, or are you against doing so to kill millions of innocent civilians? I'd likely guess it's the latter.

    Try another: if a genuinely, earnestly socialist Soviet Union existed today and had their own LLMs or automation otherwise to assist with technological planning, would you be against socialism?

    Technology is value neutral. It is how it's used that's the problem. Think critically.

    You can of course be just anti-technology altogether, but that is irrelevant to discourse about capitalism.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    I don't disagree that technology is value neutral, I disagree that "AI" as such is even a technology or has any value.

    Certainly software can have value, and that's all this is. Time will tell if it has any practical application, but it has already revealed that it has significant negative externalities.

    I don't think we really even need to involve politics at all in the discussion if you'd prefer not to but since the fascist takeover of the USA is being enabled by the capital being generated through this AI bubble it seems relevant.

    If an earnest socialist nation was developing LLMs I'd be critical of that too, and I would hope the workers would. Resource allocation vs return on this tech so far is diabolical.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    It's pretty crucial to note that the fascist takeover of the USA and even the AI bubble has happened after the "AI Spring". Most of the investment that actually produced something was prior to well... most of the investment.

    I agree with you on the fact that AI does seem like a highly inefficient way to do anything - but that only appears to be the case when we look at huge more recent models - just a few years ago FOSS locally run models were practically on par with their significantly bigger versions - models like the Mistral-7b for text or SDXL for image generation have lower hardware requirements than some video games these days and despite some shortcomings are still extremely impressive for what they are without sucking down an entire rainforest to summarize an email.

    As for practical applications, they just make it possible to convert information into various formats, anything from translation to personalized tutorship for learning skills etc. and then there's just the fact that they can make it possible for smaller software (and game) developement to take on much larger projects.

    I'm not saying people should just accept slop either, I think there's a goldilocks zone between this corpo idea of "employee-free" and "skill-free" and "code-free" software and "artist-free" art and complete and total rejection of using the tool at all.

    Heck even just background removal in Photoshop is pretty neat even if it's only marginally better than the magic eraser we've had for years.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago

    "You load 16 tons and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. St Peter don't you call me cause I can't go, I owe my soul to the company store"

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    Is this a test run for the billionaire oligarchs’ “network cities” they want to infect the planet with?

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Well, there goes the neighbourhood.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    wtf aren't they trying that crap in their own bloody country?

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago
    [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I want wacky hijinks like that Sci-fi show Eureka.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Fuck, hasn’t Barnsley suffered enough already?

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  • Reminds me of Sidewalk Toronto but probably worse.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I feel like this would make more sense in new zealand.

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  • 6 comments in c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 22 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    What’s wrong with Barnsley?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    As someone who grew up down the road from Barnsley, I often semi-affectionately describe it as a bit of a shithole. The poor socioeconomic conditions mean that growing up there makes you feel hopeless about your future. You internalise the idea that you either have to escape to somewhere with better prospects, or resign yourself to being left behind, like you're the unpleasant gritty bits at the bottom of a drink.

    I'd wager that this is why they've chosen Barnsley for this. It's like the metropolitan equivalent of a wealthy bastard predating upon a desperate woman who can't afford her bills. I'd wager that some of the local officials involved in this decision believe that AI is bad, but that some investment in the area is better than nothing. Unfortunately, I'm fairly sure that's wrong. Rolling out AI into the areas they're planning to will just increase workload for the already overstressed humans in those fields, which may be worsened if some of those lose their jobs due to the overpromised savings from the AI.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago

    This should really go without saying, but the government should not allow, much less endorse, companies experimenting on their citizens. I'm pretty sure the government should protect people from corporations, not feed people to them.

    the hospital will test AI tools for check-ins, triage and outpatient care and AI will be tested in schools and at Barnsley College, all in an effort to improve pupils’ results and teachers’ workloads

    AI has no place in these settings, certainly not yet. Why do you even need AI for checking in? This is extremely sad to see, and I highly recommend reading the whole article. There's a nursing and teacher shortage in the UK. Why not bolster those programs instead? I understand wanting to give your community options, but I certainly don't want to hire someone who thinks asking AI to do their work for them is a life skill. I do see people hiring for positions that use AI, but you have to know how to do their job first. Why not focus on that?

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Fuck that, we trying to bring back mining-era company towns that will inevitably fail now?

    I hope people like having a 'New Appalachia,' because the situation in Appalachia is exactly what happens when company towns go under.

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