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[–] 207 points 9 months ago (3 children)

The health insurance plans will just raise their prices by another $2000

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  • [+] 105 points 9 months ago (42 children)
  • [–] 99 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    A lot don't get insurance and just hope they don't die?

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  • [+] 23 points 9 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 39 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Enraging and 100% true. About 11% of working age Americans have no health insurance.

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  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Consider also how many people have health insurance but cant afford to use it?

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  • [–] 24 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    I feel bad for the americans who want to effect GOOD change

    The worst part is so many americans are convinced that actually most Americans want half good, half bad policy; free healthcare is too far left, but theres definitely a cohort of voters who wont vote for that, but will vote for means-tested subsidies for health insurance companies, and that running on that policy is smarter than running on policy anyone actually wants.

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  • [+] 11 points 9 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    We're paying twice as much for it, but getting less and worse care because most of that money is going to death panels and shitbags like David Cordani, Patrick Conway, and Mark Bertolini.

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  • [+] 7 points 9 months ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Don't forget all the time we have to waste arguing with insurance companies to get them to cover our wife's ongoing chemotherapy even though nothing has fucking changed

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    A) its not universal because plenty of people don't have coverage.

    B) many of our insurance companies and "healthcare providers" are for profit and traded on the stock market, so our premiums are going to shareholders, with just enough paying for actual treatment to keep all of us from going full Luigi

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago

    While I was living in Seattle it was: $3.3k/mo for rent, like $500 utilities, about $1k for food (I was feeding me and another person, we ate out maybe once every couple months, I did go a bit fancy with our cooking), various things like gym and other stuff to keep my sanity brought it all up to about $5.5k/mo. My health insurance was through my work and I paid about $1.2k and they paid about $2k but that was all handled before I got my paychecks.

    So in Seattle at least the answer is make at least $100k/yr before tax, don't have kids, don't have a car, be in reasonably good health, have a job that pays for most your insurance premiums, and never have a medical emergency. Or live in a house with 6 other people and dumpster dive for food. Or just go massively into debt.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Honestly the best thing skilled Americans could do is leave. Changing things would be better but honestly simply leaving in droves could already change things for the better ironically enough.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I spent years trying to change things. Protests, donating to younger people more capable of direct action than me, building community, and yes voting too because we have to use all our tools. It became too dangerous for my aging trans ass and I managed to find myself in a position to move to Sweden. I don't know if I'll ever stop feeling guilty about it but it's so much better outside the US. I'm still giving what I can to my community back in the US but at this point it's more like using scotch tape to fix a stab wound. You better believe though if the US comes for Greenland I'm going to do everything I can to help my new neighbors

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Hey. Don't feel bad about leaving. You've done what you could and then did what you needed to in order to keep yourself safe. If what you say is true you've done an order of magnitude more work towards a better world than the majority of people.

    I think we need good people left in this country to have a chance to try and turn things around, but I'll never be upset with someone who left for their own good. There's enough of us that can't leave, or won't leave, that we'll never become irrelevant here. The fight will go on until death do us part, for better or for worse.

    You better believe though if the US comes for Greenland I'm going to do everything I can to help my new neighbors

    Do it, and don't feel bad about it. If the US comes for Greenland I'm on the side of Greenland. Same for Canada, same for Mexico, same for anyone else whose sovereign borders are being threatened. Know that no matter what happens you still have friends here on the inside.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    60%+ of Americans do not even have $1,000 in some kind of savings or checking account, as an emergency fund.

    We are all being run ragged, most people are in an apparently literally unbelievable amount of debt, because once you have that first month you have to borrow to pay for groceries or ultilities or rent or a medical copay... the debt spiral begins, you basically don't get out, and the hole gets worse and worse.

    Or... theres also a lot of people with less than 0 financial sense, because the average reading level of the US citizenry is that of a 5th to 6th grader, and many people have compulsive shopping addiction habits.

    Something like 25% of Americans have negative net equity, ie, they have more debt than all their possessions are worth.

    They're basically debt slaves, whether or not they realize it.

    Something like another 25% have basically 0, netted out.

    ... and that's all before everyone's 401ks and pension funds collapse from the Private Equity / Ptivate Capital (read: unregulated lending) firms ongoing implosion... and thats before the dollar gets further and further devalued so that the government can inflate away its real debt payments, which is the strategy the Treasury Sec is pursuing.

    Americans in the bottom ~4/5 - 9/10 of society have no fucking clue how bad it is about to get.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    most people are in an apparently literally unbelievable amount of debt, because once you have that first month you have to borrow to pay for groceries or ultilities or rent or a medical copay… the debt spiral begins, you basically don’t get out, and the hole gets worse and worse.

    This is why I don't have a credit card. I'm terrified of getting stuck in this loop. I know, I'm supposed to get a card and use it for things I already have the money for, so I can pay it off... but my ADHD brain just thinks, "That's yet another bill to stay on top of. Another deadline to remember. Another threat if I forget to pay, or get sick one month and have a smaller paycheck in the end and can't repay it after rent and utilities." (Because remember - sick pay isn't a guarantee in the US. My "sick time" at work is combined with "vacation" as "Paid Time Off" and accrues slowly.)

    It's absurd how paying for things with the money you already earned can be seen as a negative. I'd think if one doesn't have credit for long enough, that should be a good sign that they've managed their money properly without needing credit. But no, it doesn't work that way here. I'm in my upper 30s and have never had a credit card. My "credit score" is entirely based off of past student loans (that I only managed to pay off with help from my father.) Yet if I hadn't had school debt, I'd have no "credit score" to speak of and might not have been accepted when I applied for my apartment. It's all so ass-backwards. I mean, I get the logic of "credit" as a sign of responsibility, I just don't agree with it.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Genuienly, if you have ADHD and don't think you could manage the regular payments, it probably is the smart move to just not have another thing you need to remember.

    There are various ways that you could go for some kind of 'credit repair' type thing that would just automatically make payments out of your checking or savings account, or something like that... but that is only really important if your credit scores are like, way, way below 720.

    I also think this whole system is assbackwards insane, but as you say with the apartments and such.... it just is our social credit score, there are downsides to just not doing anything with it, you do have to 'play the game' to some extent, there is no opting out.


    I was homeless for 2 years, and its now been about 2 years I'm not homeless.

    I ran up some cards to avoid going to jail for stealing food, freezing to death in a blizzard or dying of exposure in a heatwave... and some of my cards (and ids) got stolen, more than once.

    I'm still either paying off legit collections or arguing against illegitimate ones, to this day... But I managed to improve from ~530 to ~700 in the last 2 years time, as well as set aside an emergency fund (currently just shy of 3 months of my ongoing CoL), and a bit of investments, and get some actual basic useful home type stuff, and a bit of a shelf stable food pantry, after losing literally everything.

    I've never gone bankrupt. I've never had to go to court or jail over a summary judgement on debt collections.

    That'll be what happens to more and more Americans who have so much debt they either result to fraud or some other crime, or just think they can ignore it.

    You can and will get arrested and jailed for not showing up at a court summons that results from debt collection, a lot of Americans don't seem to understand that.

    The other alternative is basically... well you'd have an armed force of your own to stop you from getting picked up by the cops, lets put it that way.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (1 child)

    I'm glad you managed to get out of that mess. I've had three bouts of homelessness before, the fear of it happening again is ever-looming.

    I agree with everything you said and don't have much more to add. Just that I'm grateful you (and I) aren't dealing with homelessness at this point in time. It sounds like you have more of an emergency fund than I do (though I'm trying!) This whole country is pay-to-play and if we lose, we just fall to the bottom without any support. Hell, even looking for low-income housing is a massive task in and of itself. Many of us have to literally win a lottery in this country in order to have a home.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Yep yep yep.

    People who've never been homeless, they don't understand this country.

    Its that simple.

    You're not a real person anymore, you're garbage that talks for some reason, has the gall to make eye contact for some reason.

    And anyone can become homeless rather quickly, if they have a run of sufficiently bad luck, untrusthworthy friends/family, just are the wrong skin color or sexual orientation, etc.

    Anybody who has not experienced it is fucking delusional about what this country really is, and I mean that absolutely, doesn't matter what your ideology or day job is.

    But yeah, I had to move halfway across the country, via Greyhound, to find a place to live.

    Its not impossible to do this on SSDI alone (I was very seriously injured in my run of homelessness), I've managed to do it, but... its extremely difficult.

    There were many days I was sure would be my last.

    Saw a lot of people die.

    Thats my American experience: No one cares, fuck you, die.

    Glad you've survived it as well, at least thus far.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago*

    I'd just give up, buy food with credit, and literally walk off to invade someone's forest, cannibalize them, use their land to hunt.

    After all, they crowded everyone out on purpose.

    Who am I kidding, I'm a pussy even now.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    To afford everything you just need to be disabled, then you get health care, food support, monthly income, and rent help. If the top 10% paid their taxes then everyone can get these benefits.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Can't tell if sarcastic. Too many people legit think this way.

    Being disabled means having to be scrutinized regularly by government authority, by filling out endless paper forms in an attempt to justify your disability to someone with a vested interest in not believing you. I helped my girlfriend fill out disability forms last year. It's particularly cruel because she can only use her hands for brief bursts of time before needing to rest. Sometimes she sends me voice recordings instead of texts so she can respond to me, because her hands simply can't type everything she wants to say. Yet she's given page after page of questions about her abilities, the chores she's capable of completing, the hobbies she has, and so on, all so someone who's never met her (or worse, probably an AI) can poke holes in her story and deny her claims.

    Don't even get me started on the income limits.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Not really being sarcastic, I am on SSI and have been for 15+ years. Was denied twice, even with the State declaring that I am disabled. To get SSI you have to get a lawyer to file certain paperwork. Went to several doctors that the government wanted me to. Luckily I also had a psychiatrist and a therapist so my mental disorder was on record. Also had a county case manager who put I so much work to make sure that I went to the correct adult foster home and found the lawyer I needed. That isn't even scratching the surface of the paperwork I have to go through every year just to keep my CADI funding.

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  • [–] 90 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    It's one healthcare, Michael. What could it cost? $2000?

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  • [–] 86 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Health insurance premiums are going to cost $28000 from now on.

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    [–] 78 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Trump is a gold spoon fed moron who's entirely disconnected from reality. That mofo talked about groceries like it's an afternoon club or some shit. He probably never ever even stepped into a supermarket and bought a fucking loaf of bread and something else himself. It's why he fucking has no idea how healthcare even works in America, when he had COVID they just pumped shit into him to keep his zombie body alive and he didn't even twitch even the slightest for how much that would cost. Meanwhile rest of people avoid calling an ambulance because that will cost so much it can bankrupt them. Tell me how that isn't absolutely fucked.

    I live in Slovenia (Europe) and while our healthcare system isn't perfect either, not once I worried that my medical condition would set me back financially for 5 or 10 years. It just doesn't cross our minds, like at all ever. You just get in touch with doctors and they sort it out based on severity. If it's something non critical you might wait few weeks or months if it's something trivial or cosmetic, but if it's something urgent they'll send you to ER immediately and do most complex procedures asap. So it's not just "you need to wait for months because it's "free" healthcare". It is prioritized and it's perfectly understandable and logical.

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  • [–] 37 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    The entire argument about universal healthcare taking months to see a doctor is doubly trash because it took me that long to see a doctor in the US anyways. I had to plan my general practitioner visits out 3-4 months in advance and I was on meds that needed represcribed every three months so some months I simply missed it because how long the waits were

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    Yeah, I think when I had a mole that turned out to be cancer, it was still a 6 months wait to see a dermatologist because there are so many people wanting to see them (and many of those are for cosmetic shit, grumble grumble). Luckily it didn't metastasize while I was waiting. Fucking us healthcare is a joke.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Absolutely unrelated, but you mentioned being from Slovenia and it reminds me of a kid I work with (in the US.) When he was 4, I showed him a map of the world. Out of all the places on it, he zeroed in on Slovenia and asked, "What's that?" I told him, "That's Slovenia." Something about your country caught his attention, I can't explain it.

    The kid's an information sponge. Ever since then, when I mention things about the rest of the world (countries, flags, time zones, etc.) he becomes curious about Slovenia.

    So yeah, your country has a special place in a random little boy's heart. I just wanted to share that.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    I hope someone gives that kid some potica. It's an amazing Slovenian bread made by spreading a nut paste mixture over a large piece of dough which is then rolled up and baked. My Dad is half Slovenian so I grew up eating potica every Christmas.

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  • [–] 77 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Adding $660,000,000,000 to the federal deficit annually and still not making a dent in people's healthcare costs?

    A single-payer universal healthcare system would be cheaper, as almost every other country's systems show.

    The real trick is to get private equity and for-profit corporations out of healthcare. All they do is drive up costs while lowering outcomes.

    Healthcare should be a public service, funded by the government.

    😆 2
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  • [–] 24 points 9 months ago

    Yeah, the US actually pays more PUBLIC funds per person than most other nations. Then the private cost on top - all for worse health outcomes.

    We need more Luigis just from a financial perspective.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    UNH, CVS, ELV and CI share holders disagree with you and thanks to the SCOTUS Citizen United decision they have to money and the legal framework to legally bribe politicians. I'll suggest to invest in those companies rather than flight them.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago*

    I'm not contributing to evil companies. "If you can't beat them, join them" does not apply when they're responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths a year and putting millions of people in poverty.

    People willing to do anything to get rich is precisely the problem in this country, and I'm not going to be a part of it.

    You're right about Citizens United, though. It should be revoked.

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  • [–] 36 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Typical NYC slumlord style: "Free first months rent."

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago

    I looked at an apartment once which was the upstairs of a house. Dogs had eaten large chunks out of the bedroom doors and there were two giant piles of dog shit left in the kitchen. The owner was enormous and unable to climb stairs so she hadn't seen the state of the place after the previous tenants had moved out. After I told her what the situation was, she said if I cleaned it up myself she would knock off $200 ... from the security deposit. Get fucked.

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  • [–] 68 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    Why does the health insurance industry even exist?

    That's a question Americans are prevented from having because it would offend Ayn Rand or something.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    In Australia we have pretty good public health care. IDK what "universal healthcare" is exactly but everyone gets treated for free for most things.

    We also have private health insurance. The relationship between the public and private systems is complex but the main difference for most people is wait times.

    I know someone with a back injury that causes constant pain, they manage it with prescribed opiates. The problem is it's not life-threatening so they're not a priority for triage. They're about 1 year through a 4 year wait. If they had private insurance they could probably have the surgery in a few months.

    Weirdly, they could start a private health insurance policy, serve the 1 year exclusion for pre-existing conditions, and get their back fixed - I don't know them well enough to ask why they don't do that. Anyway.

    There's also a problem in my state where the hospital system is getting "clogged up" with people who should be in aged care facilities and so on. If you have a car accident and break your leg, if you don't have private health insurance an ambulance will take you to the nearest public hospital. In some cases there's a queue of ambulances parked up outside. An ER doctor will still come and check on you, just to make sure you're not dying. This wouldn't be a problem if you had private health insurance and were taken to a private hospital.

    That said, there's no private hospital within 400km of where I live. I have private health insurance but I can of course still go to the public ER. I don't have anything bad to say about them. They're great really and I've never had to wait an unreasonable amount of time.

    That said, the cost is no where near what others are saying it costs in the US. We pay $400 AUD a month for our whole family, but that includes a lot of extra non-hospital stuff like dental and glasses. That works out to about 3% or 4% of an average family income.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    It's the same in the UK. There is national healthcare which is what most people go with because it's free (and most people underestimate how infuriating it is sitting in a waiting room for 6 hours) and then there's private healthcare which is what you go with if you want expediency.

    A lot of the time if you go with private you end up being tended to by the same medical staff anyway, you're basically just paying to skip the queue.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago*

    and most people underestimate how infuriating it is sitting in a waiting room for 6 hours

    As an American: those are rookie numbers, I've been stuck waiting 6-8 on a bad day to get seen, not even counting the hours it takes to get more than vitals and some iv liquid...

    Not trying to one up, I wish we had a system like that here.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    People are very bad at setting aside small amounts of money to save for large purchases. Especially when that purchase is "one day I might get real sick". That is insurance.

    But that is also taxes, so we should just pay those and get healthcare for free.

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago

    It's also hard to put away like - well I had $330k of surgeries for a spontaneous pneumothorax about 15 years ago - most people will definitely not experience that. I was in my 20s. Who could save that much by then?

    So yeah everyone else in the state paid a little more to cover my bills. By the same token, when God gives a 6yo leukemia (his ways are mysterious lol) I pay a little more to cover her treatment. And by the same token, when someone is lucky enough not to be chosen by God for either of these experiences (hallowed be thy name) then he pays a little more for both of us, which is how he buys a society where he doesn't have to watch a bunch of people die because God was having fun that day.

    So really let's put the blame where it's due here, and acknowledge that mankind attempts to introduce fairness into a system where the Lord (worship him lest you burn) is playing fast and loose with His children He loves so much.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Insurance isn’t the same as savings though. Insurance is just a bet. The insurance company basically says “Give me $5000 this year and I will cover your health care costs if you ever accrue any this year otherwise I keep the money.” The insurance company just bets that most of their clients won’t put in any claims.

    Not to mention most people can never save enough money to cover the cost of a massive healthcare bill if they get into an accident or get cancer.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    This is the US version.

    Another version is that the insurance is a mutual fund where everyone is polling money that can be used at any time to pay medical bills. This is not what is happening in the US of course but in some countries the model is similar to that.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    The administrators of the mutual fund still make a bet that their income (mainly the money they charge members/customers) will meet or exceed the claims they pay out, no? They might not have a profit motive, but that doesn't change the basic economics of needing income to be >= expenses.

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  • [–] 30 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Even if the government gives us $20,000 to buy health insurance, premiums will likely increase by $20,000.

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  • [–] 83 points 9 months ago (11 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    I feel like there should still be 13 stripes

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (3 children)

    Same. I like the image, but the last two red stripes are inaccurate, and superfluous. We didn't have 17 or 18 colonies, we had 13.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    You didn't have any colonies, the British did.

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  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Just more money being pumped straight into the pockets of the insurance company shareholders.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    it's like putting bandages over the real issues: student loan forgiveness (instead of lowering tuition), homeless shelters (instead of rent control), food stamps (instead of a living wage), now it's a healthcare subsidy (instead of universal healthcare).

    all these things are good, but could be better

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  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago*

    Republican healthcare plan can be sum up as "get fucked and die you dirty peasant".

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