851
protect trans kids rule (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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[–] 125 points 9 months ago (27 children)

There's a real dark irony in a book about a young boy quite literally coming out of the closet to discover his true self written by a woman who might as well be a Dursley.

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago

    At least it's not more explicit. It's not like there's some potion that lets you change your physical appearance at will that is even capable of turning you into a furry. Or a type of witch/wizard whose special ability is to change their appearance at will, as shown by a slightly androgynous woman who regularly changes her appearance based on how she's feeling in the moment.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago

    The irony disappears slightly when the whole slave liberation arc was literally Confederate propaganda that was so distasteful and irrelevant to the plot, it was cut from the movies.

    The house elves love being slaves. It's the natural order of things.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    The real dark irony is Jo saying they probably would have transitioned when they were younger if they were aware of gender expression.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (5 children)

    Wait what? Did she actually say that?

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    “The more of their accounts of gender dysphoria I’ve read, with their insightful descriptions of anxiety, dissociation, eating disorders, self-harm and self-hatred, the more I’ve wondered whether, if I’d been born 30 years later, I too might have tried to transition."

    “If I’d found community and sympathy online that I couldn’t find in my immediate environment, I believe I could have been persuaded to turn myself into the son my father had openly said he’d have preferred.”

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Ah, so not sincerely. Just part of another transphobic rant insinuating that trans people are corrupting the youth.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (1 child)

    She said this at the very beginning of her going terf for what that's worth. And cis people can't be persuaded to transition.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    And cis people can't be persuaded to transition.

    Yeah but transphobes don't believe that. They're convinced that confused kids get groomed into being transgender the same way socially isolated boys get groomed into incel/far right groups.

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  • [–] 42 points 9 months ago (16 children)

    Harry Potter has no true self to discover. From the first to the last page of this pile of rags he is a wizarding Mary Sue with near-infinite privilege and the personality of an oyster. The story opens with "yer a wizard" in the first 50 pages and that's the end of his character arc. From then on he's a mere vessel for the reader to experience the world and the author to move the plot along.

    .... As a matter of fact, what even is the biggest character arc in that story? I don't remember much, but Neville and Hermione have a glowup and Harry's uncle dies or something? And the weasleys open a shop? I certainly don't recall anything that lends credence to the idea that Rowling even believes that either individual people or societies are capable of profound change. The story begins and ends basically in the exact same place except the characters are 10ish years older.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    From the first to the last page of this pile of rags he is a wizarding Mary Sue with near-infinite privilege and the personality of an oyster.

    I disagree.

    As a matter of fact, what even is the biggest character arc in that story? I don’t remember much

    :-/

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    that really doesn't add much to the conversation. you're just
    https://c.tenor.com/dGrqkdDWyeEAAAAd/tenor.gif
    -ing. why do you disagree, Jo?

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago* (11 children)

    It's a generic critique of any fantasy novel protagonist. Potter isn't any more of a Mary Sue than Aragorn or Rand Al'Thor.

    And "The plot was bad, I don't even remember what happened". Bro, what do I even say to that?

    The story wasn't so bad that it failed to sell tens of millions of copies in dozens of languages.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    And “The plot was bad, I don’t even remember what happened”. Bro, what do I even say to that?

    The story wasn’t so bad that it failed to sell tens of millions of copies in dozens of languages.

    Thanks, i can respond to that. It may have not had the best written story, but it was a story that resonated with people (even though we, on reflection, found a lot to pick apart in it) and that's really, really hard to do. Tens of millions of copies each volume indeed.

    From then on he’s a mere vessel for the reader to experience the world and the author to move the plot along.

    I mean i'm exposing my writing naivete here but if we get rid of the word mere above, isn't the primary job of the MC to be a vessel for the reader to experience the world and the author to move the plot? we kind of come back to the same idea. give a bland protag that the reader can feed their emotions and reasoning into and they connect a little more. the more they connect the better the book sells. it seems like a decent writing strategy if nothing else is working.

    given that thought, maybe i should write a novel about me. i can't think of anything blander. maybe that's why they say everyone's first novel is about themselves.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I am not saying it did not sell. That's the one thing it did really well. But it's hardly a hot take to say success is not a measure of quality. Plenty of mainstream slop out there. HP is slop. It's not offensively bad, but it's certainly not good.

    Over 6+ books it's really sub-par writing to have a character who does not really grow because they already did not have any internal flaws or conflicts. The upside is that it's really hard to hate a blank slate MC and you don't risk writing yourself into a corner. I'm sure this is no small part of why there is so much HP fanfic specifically -- it's hard to write those characters badly as they lack so much depth!

    Tons of things did the HP formula better, with well developed characters, good worldbuilding, good plot, good themes, yada yada. e.g. The Magicians (only saw the show) or Misfits&Magic. And in all of those the protags face strong personal hardships and are drastically different people by the end. Yeah, it's hard, but that's what storytellers do.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Aragorn....you had all of literature to pick from and you chose Aragorn as your first example?

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Literally "the pre-destined future leader who just needs to walk forward and automatically wins".

    What's his biggest hurdle through the entire three-book adventure? Picking which hot princess he's going to marry? Politely asking some ghosts to defeat half the Dark Lord's army in an unwritten side adventure? Literally walking up to the Black Gates of Mordor and telling the Eye of Sauron "Made you look"?

    Come on. The most difficult fight Aragorn has in the entire epic adventure happens in the first half of the first book.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    He struggles with his identity and guilt over isildur's failure with the ring, he straight up fails to save frodo after getting stabbed who would have died if Arwen didn't show up, and that final stand against Sauron's army was basically a suicide mission that only worked because he taunted Sauron into sending the army out of the black gate before ever heading out there.

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  • [+] 4 points 9 months ago (4 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (3 children)

    I’d argue Harry is way worse than both Aragorn and Rand Al’Thor.

    That's fine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

    What qualities does Harry have?

    Naivete, isolation, and confusion that gives way to optimism and comradrie in Book 1. If you ever read any Roald Dahl novels, he's got much of the same youthful curiosity and compassionate cheerfulness of James from the Giant Peach and Charlie from the Chocolate Factory.

    Much of Harry's early personality is informed by his struggle to understand his parents and his parents' friends, picking up and discarding their habits and traits in pursuit of self-actualization (Book 3/4/5, in particular, have him latching onto Remus Lupin and then Sirius Black as idols, only to lose them and himself in turn). Over the course of the series Harry's initial optimism is poisoned by cynicism and hatred, frustration at the failure of his elder peers, and ultimately a depressive death spiral. He matures, discarding the childish qualities of the early books and adopts more mature (often toxic and reactionary) views and motivations by the end of the series. As a case in point, Book 1 Harry would have happily joined SPEW, while Book 5 Harry considers it an annoyance. I'd say Harry's arc really peaks in Book 6, when he uses black magic on Draco Malfoy and Snape has to rush in to save him. He's gone from a cheerful, generous, naive little kid to a battle-hardened child soldier.

    Like, if I was to really describe Harry's story progression, that's it. Its a look inside a child that's forced to fight a war for survival. You get a similar (abet much better written) character trajectory for the Animorphs. But to say nothing is going on with the central character? That's blatantly rage-bait.

    Also my suspicion that book 6 is the last book that Rowling had more than a few token notes on. By book 7, you can really feel the ghostwriters crowding in and WB taking a heavy hand in editing/finalizing (although it's clear they've been around since book 4). Forcing a Disney-style happy ending on a wizard civil war betrayed so much of what Rowling had set up in the early novels.

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  • [+] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I guess I just really, really hate Harry as a protagonist

    If Rowling had just stuck to sports YA novels about wizard high school, instead of sticking her withered claw into politics, I doubt anyone would have more to say about Harry Potter than they've said about Luke Skywalker.

    after the fifth one, I can barely remember anything that happens in them, outside some biggest plot points.

    It's just crazy to introduce "The Three Big Magic Items That Change The World" in book 7. Like, you haven't finished playing with the Seven Evil Relics That Keep Voldemort Alive and you're already injecting this other shit? Save it for a different series.

    Compared to how I can still fairly well recall what happens in books 1-4, and mostly 5 as well despite there being more time passed after reading them, the contrast is huge.

    The first three movies are, in my opinion, really nice happy little Christmas movies. Been watching them on and off since I was in high school. So the plot is burned into my brain. I honestly think books 2 and 3 are the peak of her writing. Genuinely really good kids stories. Fun antagonists. Clever riddles. A few twists at the end.

    And then she blew up in popularity, and the whole franchise went off the rails. Ah well...

    Moral of the story, never let a good author write a fourth book.

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    • [–] [M] 22 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Just in case anyone doesn't know:

    J.K. Rowling uses personal wealth to fund anti-trans org

    J.K. Rowling is using her wealth attained from the Harry Potter series to create an organization dedicated to removing transgender people's rights "in the workplace, in public life, and in protected female spaces.”

    You can "seperate the art from the artist", but can't seperate the Harry Potter royalties from the anti-trans funding.

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    • [–] 10 points 9 months ago*

    Rocky Horror is a bit better than Harry Potter. DON'T dream it, be it.

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    [–] 20 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    People seemed to have no trouble dropping Gaiman after his horrendous behavior came to light, but even suggest people drop their beloved nostalgia books and it's all "but my blorbo! JK bad I guess, but I like my blorbo!".

    The sad part is that the HP-verse is so clearly not for us -- that is, not for anyone besides straight white liberal Christians. The stereotypes, the handwaves, the defense of the status quo. But people choose to engage with and perpetuate this media anyway.

    People would rather just enjoy the blorbo than take a stand against what it represents/supports. Comfort is "easier" than tension.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    My Christian mom didn't let us watch Harry Potter because our church said it was evil. I guess it's not for Christians either, though I think that has changed and it's fine now.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, I forgot about that satanic panic stuff around HP. Maybe those xtians feel more comfortable now knowing she hates the same people they do.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yup, a childhood friend of mine gave me the first Harry Potter book for my birthday, and my christian parents threw it away after they left because "it promotes witchcraft". Then I grew up and realized I was trans, and hate Harry Potter for an entirely different reason.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago*

    i feel like people expect(ed) way too much out of harry potter because it sold well. then jo rowling turned out to be a terf and used her billions predictably. it's kind of like star wars, it's just taken a life of its own. you can't really help or harm jo rowling or george lucas anymore, except maybe make their social media intern sniffle a little bit. they simply have so much wealth their lives occur outside everyday reality anymore. the line goes up, it goes down, it has no effect on them except ego. they get to do what they want. they're going to fund harmful causes regardless. so do what you want.

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    • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    Trans rights and stuff

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    [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (14 children)

    Here's an honest question. Are we allowed to buy Harry Potter stuff after JKR is dead, since she won't get paychecks from it anymore?

    I don't but it now, think I missed the hype train by being too old when it hit it's hype.

    But the biggest issue is JKR getting the money not the franchise? Or am I missing something where the franchise and license owners are also anti-trans?

    I can't keep up with everything, but I know Harry Potter is getting a lot of hate and I'm out of the loop besides JKR just being a cunt on social media.

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  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    If she owns the rights she could theoretically put something in her will that states x% of proceeds from her intellectual properties will go to [insert TERF organization here]. Considering she's made it her life goal to make society as inaccessible to trans people as possible, I assume she'll make sure she can do so in death as well.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    So she's well beyond just commenting and is funding things that hurt the trans community?

    I should Google more.

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  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago

    Yup. Just one of her purchases put about 70,000 pounds Stirling in the hands of the lawyers that got gender recognition certificates rendered moot in the UK supreme court. Thats the landmark ruling that has since allowed bathroom, locker room , gym and sport single sex policing completely legitimate by UK authorities and forced "transgender row" in prisons to send trans prisoners to institutions of their birth sex.

    She does a lot more with her money than that but that was her single biggest win so far.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    She has publicly stated that she considers purchasing or consuming Harry Potter stuff as support for her ideology, and she donates a portion of what she makes off of it to political organizations that include right-wing Christian extremist groups.

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    • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Is there something about stuffed animals in the Harry Potter books I am missing?

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  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    The lion, snake, badger, and raven are the animals of the Hogwarts houses.

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    • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    what about potter puppet pals. can we still watch that?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Does watching it put money in the hands of people doing harm to trans kids? Or will it LEAD to harm to trans kids?

    If the answer to either of those is ever yes, then no.

    Like does watching Neil Cicigrega's potter puppet pals eventually lead to royalties to jkr? Or does watching it make you eventually want to do anything that will give money to jkr, like watch actual hp content or other jkr content?

    Best to just let it go.

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    • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (28 children)

    As much as the author sucks, I enjoy the series too much to throw it away :/

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  • [–] 61 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    pirate the media and dont give it exposure then :) any dollar given to that franchise is a dollar spent to harm trans people

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    It harms much more than just trans people. Firstly transphobes think even the slightest form of gender-noncomformity is transgenderism, secondly many of those TERF orgs also oppose other things (wondering if Collective Shout got any money from her, but probably she already blames porn for trans people).

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    transgenderism

    Forgive me if I've been mislead, but from what I understand "transgenderism" is a term used by transphobes to diminish a legitimate phenomenon, implying it is a belief or fad.

    Still upvoted for contributing to the discussion and for supporting an alien in his search for the universe's best cup of coffee.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I know, that's why I used that word in that context. They don't care, they just see someone not extremely masculine or feminine, then think they must be trans. I got accused of "formerly having 'rapid onset gender dysphoria'", because I used to have long hair for metal reasons.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I always hear "transgender ideology" from transphobes, to make it more of a thought exercise and fad than a physical state of being. "Transgenderism" is a word I've been familiar with for decades but it may have been coopted or is being eschewed now, not sure.

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    as a transfem academic who enjoyed HPMoR, I dislike JKR's Harry Potter series because it's poorly written and is not critical enough of the ethical problems it contains

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  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Oh you mean the fascistic nightmare world where it turns out the only problem is bad actors, not the fact that it's systemically rotten to the core?

    Motherfucker becomes a cop ffs

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I mean, both worlds are rotten to the core, it's just that HPMoR is properly critical of the problems therein. Only one of the two worlds has the main character working hard to dismantle the institutional racism he was presented with.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Not trying to hate on Harry Potter fans, but the characters just seem so one dimensional to me. It’s a neat setting which really speaks to the cozy part of my brain, but I never noticed enough depth in it to get why it has so many fans.

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  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    outside of nostalgia which is hard to quantify what is the appeal compared to thousands of better series in the genre? Its not just written by a bigoted monster who uses her platform for harming others its filled with lackluster world building and empty characters.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    I've never understood this argument. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not spending another penny on this franchise for the foreseeable future, but... I'm still a fan of the books. I've read my copies so often most of them are held together with duct tape and chewing gum. I have my old dvds and I give them a watch here and there. Probably gonna watch them with my kid once he's old enough.

    I'm a fan of Harry Potter. Its not about if a different series is better or worse. And the books aren't bad, but that was never the issue. No one who is really a fan of something is gonna transfer their love for that thing to a "better" version that easily.

    What do those other series not have? They're not Harry Potter. They're a different thing. And it doesn't have to be nostalgia for you to like a thing. And if you can replace it that easily, you're not much of a fan. Which is fine! Everyone has their own tastes.. But think about something you actually are a fan of. There's no replacement for it.

    Hope this didn't come off too strong, I'm not mad or anything, but its really an argument that I don't understand when people make. There are so many good arguments for voting with your wallet on this thing, but this doesn't seem to be one of them.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Do you have any trans people in your life?

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Are you assuming that there aren't trans people that like Harry Potter? Do YOU have any trans people in your life?

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I didn't assume anything, I just asked a question.

    I do have a handful of trans people in my life, yes.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Yes I do too. To answer your question

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    [–] 0 points 9 months ago

    those look like 8yo kids

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    [+] -15 points 9 months ago (4 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    You are one very, very lost nazi.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    The funny thing about the mental health angle is that the treatment for dysphoria as a mental illness is therapy and potential gender reassignment. I recall there was some chud type who was talking up this angle on a stream and they walked themselves right into that and you could see them realize they were wrong about everything even by their own argument.

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