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[–] 10 points 9 months ago
[–] 18 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Man this is so overblown. If it was moved to the 28th, all these whiners wouldn't even remember in a year or two. As long as I get a holiday in late January, I don't care about the date. These people always say the sky will fall if we change anything (gay marriage, banning smoking in bars, etc) then we do it and nothing bad happens.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I reckon you're right, I didn't hear any complaining this year about the Triple J Top 100 being on a different date.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I don't hear anyone talk about the hottest 100 at all these days.

    I work most public holidays and was a bit of a ritual to listen to it while we worked. When they moved it I just no longer listened to it. Now I don't think I know anyone that listens to it.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I have an argument that gets those racist idiots to agree to moving the day.

    Wouldn't it be nicer to have a public holiday when the weather's nicer instead of it being 40 odd degrees? We should move it to a part of the year where it's still good to go out but it's not boiling hot. Perfect getting blind drunk and passing out on the grass in the middle of the day weather.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Yes please. We go from ANZAC day in April to fucking December 25th before we get another public holiday in most of Australia.

    I dread that 'public holiday drought' every year.

    Move it to early September or something. Skips the worst of winter and breaks up the work year better.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    There's the honorary kings bday in June/July (lazy and dont remember which). Then there's the one in October, Melbourne cup I think idk? So there's two in between. I think 3 would be nice. Thats one every couple of months. Others to many early on in the year anyway. It fucks up January to have one again that soon, having been working somewhere that doesn't close over Christmas + new years.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago* (8 children)

    I think what we need to do is to start our own Australia day celebration on an agreed date. We have to spend the currently official day either doing nothing or raising awareness and yet the racists(or uninformed if you're young/new to the country) get to enjoy it celebrating.

    I would love a day where we could all celebrate this beautiful country. We need to start the change we want to see in this world and raising awareness has been an excellent step in this journey.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Do you mean that instead of having Australia day be negative on 26th, start the celebration on another day first. Let the mood shift there naturally, rather than out of negativity on the day that's already in place, albeit inappropriately.

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  • [+] -17 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    Nah, it's about getting the sympathetic guilt of white leftists out in one day so they can still feel like good people.

    They have to have the day be negative for that.

    Celebrate and teach about actual Indigenous figures and history? Nah, you won't find support for that here.

    You'll find support for reproducing the existing culture. "More of the same" they'll say whilst claiming to be progressives... Progress to what? They don't have the slightest clue, and refuse to think about it.

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  • [+] -12 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Obligatory "not all the leftists!" but you're right. I guarantee nobody in this thread actually gives a shit about the plight in indigenous communities or has any interest in materialist change tackling the dearth of jobs and opportunities fueling rampant alcoholism and abuse. They don't want to do anything good, they just want to guilt trip so they can feel superior

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago*

    Land Back

    🖤💛❤️

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (22 children)

    I am not Australian and I don't know the entire history or context, but one thing I can say is that not only can people change but nations can change, too. It's possible to celebrate what a nation has become without celebrating what they've done.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago*

    It’s possible to celebrate what a nation has become without celebrating what they’ve done.

    A nation's actions are a direct result of what the nation is. And many of the shameful actions of Australia are ongoing.

    I love this land, I love many, many people here, and I love many of the things we've created together. But I have no desire to celebrate this nation as it stands. I feel no more kinship with someone on the other side of the country to someone on the other side of the world - we are all fellow humans. I treat visitors and immigrants with the same respect I give local citizens. For the many positive parts of Australian culture, I spot as many negatives.

    But even all that aside, if you want to celebrate the positive parts and ignore the negative... it's embarrassing to plaster the United Kingdom flag everywhere. Green and gold > red, white and blue.

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  • [–] [S] 20 points 9 months ago* (6 children)

    And it's also possible to change the date to one that does not mark a genocide.

    • The 26th is the date the First Fleet landed in Sydney.
    • Australia became a country on January 1st.
    • The 26th became the official date for 'Australia Day' only in 1994.
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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I know im in the minority but I like the 3rd of march.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    I'm with you. 3rd March is a good pick for both what it represents (throwing off the shackles of the British) and for the time of year (early Autumn is basically still summer), and I strongly support the idea of changing it to that date.

    I think I would prefer 3rd September or 9th October, the date the Statute of Westminster was enacted (depending on whether you go by the date it actually passed in 1942, or the date it was retroactively applied to in 1939). They both come at a time of year where there's a relative lack of public holidays. The 5 month period from late December to early May already have Christmas, Boxing Day, New Year's, Good Friday, Easter Monday, ANZAC Day, and Labour Day. That's 7. The entire rest of the year has just 2!

    (Using Queensland dates here, but the trend is similar elsewhere, with a lot of state or local public holidays also being in that span. And, obviously, I'm discounting Australia Day from the 5-month period for the sake of the hypothetical. Otherwise it would be 8.)

    Ideal would be an early November/late October holiday, to get that warm weather while still being reasonably removed from the Christmas–Labour Day period. The early October of the date the Statute of Westminster Adoption Act received royal assent is a little earlier than ideal, but has the added bonus of some synergy with ACT, NSW, and SA's Labour Day, as well as Qld's King's Birthday, giving two long weekends in a row: sometimes (including this year) a 3-day week, usually two 4-day weeks in a row.

    But any of these dates would make great alternatives and have my strong support.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago*

    Spin a wheel and pick a date. It doesn't matter when it is, just as long as it's not yet another 'fuck you' to the first nations.

    Such a petty and easy to fix thing, but all the skungebags with flags sticking out of their utes seem to think this has some sort of cultural heritage to them. At least the US southerners have a generational gap between them and the loser flag.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I guess making 1/1 Australia day would conflict with New Year's Day somewhat... Any other significant days in Australia's history that don't mark genocide?

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    3rd March 1986 is the date the Australia Acts were enacted, which is actually what removed the last shackles of UK dominion over Australia, including the UK's ability to pass legislation that would have effect in Australia or for Australians to appeal to the UK privy council. Up until this point, Australia was officially still a dominion of the British Empire.

    The Statute of Westminster was officially adopted on 9th October 1942, though it was backdated to 3rd September 1939. It removed most of the ability of the UK to legislate with effect in Australia (still enabling them to legislate over Australia with Australia's "express request and consent"), removed the ability of the monarch to refuse to allow the Governor-General to give royal assent, and gave Australia the ability to control the laws of royal succession independently of the UK, which is why prior to William having his first kid, Australia (and other countries such as NZ, in addition to the UK itself) had to enact legal changes to the laws of succession in order to allow for succession to be simple primogeniture, rather than male-preference primogeniture.

    So that's 3 good dates there: 3 March, 3 September, and 9 October.

    There's also 9 July, which is the date the Australia Constitution Act 1900 was enacted by the UK Parliament, allowing for federation to occur on 1 January the following year. So a potential 4th date, but kinda a lame one IMO.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    I am not Australian and I don’t know the entire history or context

    And yet you decided to weigh in anyway. Amazing.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (10 children)
  • [+] 9 points 9 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Because I know enough to make a general statement which holds true in any circumstance.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Hmm yes very smart. Add a useless platitude to a thread you have no idea about or stake in. No background reading or nuance here, just thought terminating cliches! I wonder why nobody is praising your amazing intellect.

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    You state that nuance and circumstance can make the statement false? Present it.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Dude, you must understand that many things in life are subtle and depend heavily on context and history. There are many words, gestures, dates, etc. that has special meaning to certain groups of people. The meanings are not intrinsic - they could be changed or forgotten or whatever - but they are also quite real, and often powerful and important.

    Your original statement was a bit of a nothingburger. Yeah, people / countries can change. whoop-di-do. Nothing wrong with saying it. Maybe some people will appreciate your thoughts on that. But it probably is not going to add much to a discussion that has everything to do with cultural context.

    On the other hand, in your continued followups you are somehow trying to defend the 'wisdom' of your original post. These follow ups are kind of insulting. You apparently know nothing at all about this topic, and yet for some reason you are insisting that your views are relevant. Why are you doing that? I suggest that you let your idea stand on its own merit without you fighting a battle to try to defend it. We don't need this conflict.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Oh yes of course, you were just saying some words. You freely admit not knowing the context but it didn't occur to you to, idk, educate yourself first? Nah, more important to just say words because idk, freezed peaches or something.

    This is why no one likes Seppos.

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  • USA vibes up in this thread.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (15 children)

    Whis AI made this? Australians don't use month-day format, we use day-month format.

    Ps, nothing against the statement being made here..

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    It's not AI made and where are you even seeing a XX/XX/XX format on this poster?

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago* (12 children)

    "January 26 15" at the top. I mean, even translating that from American date format, it still doesn't make sense unless the poster was originally made for Australia day 2015..

    Again though, nothing against the statement being made, I am in the "Australia day isn't a celebration" camp too. Just a shame the date format isn't Australian date format. It detracts from the effectiveness of the statement by making the incorrect date format the focus, rather than the statement being made.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago* (7 children)
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (6 children)

    Fair enough, although "January 26" is still American date format, not Australian date format.

    Anyway, not trying to cause an argument or anything, just pointing out some tips you might like to pass on to the graphic designer and marketing team. I'll see myself out.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago (5 children)

    We have no standard for if we say 26 of Jan or Jan 26th. The only standard we have is for de/mm/yyyy format.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    Actually we do have an official standard for both short and long date. It's "day month year", not "month day". Short dates are d/m/yyyy, long dates are dd mmm yyyy. https://www.stylemanual.gov.au/style-manual-resources/quick-guides/quick-guide-dates-and-time#%3A%7E%3Atext=at+midday+tomorrow.-%2CDates%2C-Use+the+%27day

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    That's for "Australian Government content", it's not the standard for vernacular Australian English.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    I tend to disagree. The only people I know who use American date format pf mmm dd are either heavily influenced by American culture, media and other sourced like these, or are actually from a country which uses mmm dd date formats. The vernacular that I've experienced over 3 states and 5 cities on the east coast of Australia is "day month".

    Anyway, as I said, I'm not here to argue with you. I feel as this thread is just detracting more and more from your point (which I agree with) that Australia day is not a day of celebration.. So how about we agree to disagree on the date format and move on.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    And I likewise have never heard anyone have a strong preference in conversation on this. The only thing I would say is odd is the lack of ordinal suffix, it should be January 26th.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago*

    I think the lack of ordinal suffixes seems to be an increasingly (non-format-specific) used thing across many date formats and date vernaculars. I still add it when Im saying dates out loud or writing emails (eg "26th January" vs "26 January") because it sounds less mechanical and robotic.

    Probably doesn't help that I'm autistic and omitting tiny little details like that give me eye twitches.. Lol

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  • [+] [S] -18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (36 children)
  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    While I disagree with down voting, especially en masse or on racist grounds, I am also against public shaming of voting. It's part of the reason voting is partly hidden.

    Of course, you can only have a discussion with commenters, not lurkers.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Urgh, naming and shaming people for disagreeing with you? What a fkn sad thing to do, I'm ashamed to share the same opinion with someone as pathetic as you.

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  • [+] [S] -22 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Aww boo hoo naming and shaming a bunch of racists, how will I ever sleep losing your respect.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    You asked for my opinion, but the toxicity was clear that I wasn't going to give it. But since you've just said that well, here it is...

    I spent years in Australia, much of it in rural areas you’d probably label as “Aboriginal communities”, as such the major city folk did, though in reality they were made up of all sorts of people. No one I knew framed life around skin colour or the actions of British colonists long before any of us were born.

    While I was there, Australia Day was of contention, and it's unusual to see it still is. An elder I worked with once put it plainly: colonial dates—Gregorian, Julian, whatever—hold little meaning because they aren’t connected to their culture and lived reality. They did not care and it was hard for them to. More broadly, I was taught that the country is shared, taught, and enjoyed with respect for all living things. That outlook helped me feel at home in a place that was intimidating at first, until I was welcomed in. And if you’ve travelled, you’d know this isn’t unique to Australia, it’s common across indigenous cultures impacted by European colonisation, especially outside Eurasia. A disassociation with the things of different cultures, yet are still having to have them shoved at the forefront and be told how to be about them.

    What also struck was how openly critical they were of some Aboriginal activists. They saw them as loud, clueless, and often doing more harm than good. Creating social division to offload what someone once called "the First Fleet guilt” which passes through the generations. It was clear they didn’t want to be spoken for, particularly when those actions clashed with their culture and other's cultures.

    Based on your behaviour—both earlier and now—you appear to ve that type of person. British culture was never a part of them and never will be, yet you treat it as central because it’s central to you. You've even gone on to attack a list of people in ways that draw harder lines between groups, when both Aboriginal culture and broader Australian culture aim for the opposite.

    The downvote was for you.

    Knowing what I know, it's a real shame to see the energy you put out in this post, knowing it could've been spent on so much more things helpful to those communities. But drill down a few layers and I suspect to find it was always about you and not them.

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  • [–] [S] -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    Okay so you spent some time in some communities experience a small part of a culture, and latched onto the first thing someone told you?

    It is in contention and continues to be in contention because it still leaves a mark on the lives of Aboriginal peoples in Australia today. The majority of which might I add live in cities, not remote outback communities. And these things do hold meaning for them, and they are exactly their lived reality. Why don't you go listen to their voices when they say they want the date changed, when they say they want a treaty, when they say they their words? Why do you subject them all to the opinion of a person living out woop woop? Do you think they are less 'authentic' or less worthy of listening to?

    Aboriginal people live the same lives the rest of us do, they own houses, raise families, go to school, go to work, follow the Gregorian calendar, and so on and so forth. And they have said time and time again that they want the date changed. But you know what's best for them?

    And no, you downvoted this image long before I started commenting and calling out the racists. Many of which are the same names I've called out previously or seen them subtly express their racist views before and know exactly why they downvoted.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    You are speaking to me as if this is my direct opinion, my words, and that I have a stake in anything. I've just passed on the sentiment of those I lived alongside around most of Australia at the time. I can share the opinion, but I don't have the right to form it and hold it as though it is mine.

    So, you will have to travel to change these people—just as the Australian government once tried—or accept them for it. In doing so, maybe realise that 300+ first nations should never be placed under a single umbrella term and thought of as such. This was, after all, a contributor to why your amendment to the constitution had pushback from Aunties and Uncles around the country. Again, you'd have to take that one up with them, not me.

    If I am to share a personal opinion with you, though, it is simply that the world has made it clear to me; bad people always conduct themselves with the same nature and behaviour. Strangely, there are those that think it's okay because they hide behind the mask of good intent. But at the end of the day, they're the same people and their cause, whether good or bad, means little at that point.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    I don’t need to travel to everywhere and speak to everyone to know that the consensus among most Aboriginal peoples is for the date to be changed.

    You however maybe need to listen to more voices than one elder. Because you are actively arguing against what the majority want, and your reasoning is borderline racist implying they’re not authentic because they exist in a western system.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I personally downvoted because of the design of the poster. This was on the front page but lacked information to make sense, for the rest of the world

    I didn't even know there was an Australia Day, let alone why it's not a day to celebrate

    That said, I am blocking you because this type of confrontation and exposure is simply unacceptable

    You need to get a life and focus on something that matters. Not what random people on the internet like or don't like and asking them why

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (1 child)

    I only came here because you linked the thread elsewhere, so I didn't see this on my front page... but you saw a poster that said 'Australia Day' and that left you not knowing there was an Australia day? 🤔

    It even says aborigine enterprises on it, it's not hard gather the context or follow the qr code if you wanted to learn more. And seeing some of these comments, I think OP was right to call them out.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    I obviously realized that that there is an Australia day, but no information about why this is not a day to celebrate. Sure I could look into it, but the way I use up- or down votes is a reaction to what I see. Being called out for it, was a surprise to me, and fundamentally will change the way I use Lemmy from now on

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I unblocked you just so I could downvote this ridiculous attempt at shaming people based on YOUR opinion and not fact. You are just as bad as those fascists and racists you rail so hard against. And sadly, you just don’t care.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    “Accountability is the same as fascism and racism”

    You are such a loser, please block me again so I don’t have to deal with you replying to me.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Also temporarily unblocked because I came across this in modlogs after reporting spammers. Similar with a below poster you’re on here, all hours, spamming inflammatory political post. There’s enough posters who clearly don’t do much else with their time but use lemmy as a means to vent their frustration about their lives. Regardless of if I may appreciate why some protest Australia Day. Finding you then tagged a bunch of people who downvoted you to try and paint them as racist and shame them has all but confirmed this for me.

    Edited: removed the redundant personal remarks, as even if stand by them, especially getting off social media, I think enough people are in here making that point. You can celebrate Aus day and not be racist. The binary view and political posting is why the downvote. Im not opposed to moving the day due to what it means to indigenous Australians. Most people celebrate it for having a day off work, to drink, and us becoming our own country/not being poms. Doubt you care given your replies in here but hope that clears it up for you.

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  • [+] -9 points 9 months ago

    Yes, I only ever see you here to stir up drama and your flood of posts agitating against a day you would never celebrate anyway regardless of the date are no exception. You're doing it again with this comment, post stuff that's not attempting to stir up shit if you want upvotes.

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    Wow, tracing people online. :-) I hate racism, promoting one race over other is racism no mater what. All this jumping around First nation only creates more hate toward them, it is not helping at all. Want to help, help people in disadvantage no matter what race they are. If it will go predominately to aboriginals, fine, it means they need it more.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    I hate racism, promoting one race over other is racism no mater what

    Very true. Why, then, are you not opposed to our national celebratory holiday being moved away from a day seen as a day of mourning by some, because of what it represents for them and their culture?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (6 children)

    It affects only a very small percentage of the population. For the majority, that date means nothing outside its official meaning. And no matter what day you pick, someone will be offended. Just move on; it does not matter in the grand scale of things. But I would agree that putting it on the day when the federation was formed would make more sense, but January 1st is already used.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Ah I see. Racism is ok then, when it "affects only a very small percentage of the population."

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Logic? Please explain how did you come to this conclusion?

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    It's your logic, you explain it

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I just fail to see how you come to this conclusion based on my post. Please explain.

    Racism is ok then, when it “affects only a very small percentage of the population.”

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  • [+] -9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    They're not posts "about aboriginal people". They're posts about Australia day.

    It should be a day to celebrate indigenous people and indigenous history, from Tullamareena for burning down Melbourne jail, to A. M. Fernando for protesting covered in skeletons outside of Buckingham Palace.

    I think Australia Day is used to celebrate the wrong things, and I'll downvote posts I think do that. That's my business and you're not the fucking moral police of me cunt face.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Don't you think it's kind of gaslighting to tell people they should just forget it's a day of death and suffering and celebrate like everyone else?

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    One of the people I mentioned was literally protesting the genocide dumb ass. See this is the thing Australians have no clue who any famous or legendary aboriginal people are.

    A M Fernando was literally say "these skeletons are all that you've left of my people"... And you think learning about that is "forgetting it's a day of death and suffering".

    Fuckin Australians on Australia day are the fucking worst.

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  • [+] -30 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    We had a referendum about this, you lost.

    We don't want this identity politics bullshit, we reject it.

    So, take this nonsense and shove it where the sun don't shine.

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