Maybe if he says it enough times they’ll leave. Or maybe he should enforce the law in his state.
post
If he had balls he'd arrest them
It sounds like the federal government can move cases involving federal law enforcement agents performing their duties to federal court.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1442
28 U.S. Code § 1442 - Federal officers or agencies sued or prosecuted
(a) A civil action or criminal prosecution that is commenced in a State court and that is against or directed to any of the following may be removed by them to the district court of the United States for the district and division embracing the place wherein it is pending:
(1) The United States or any agency thereof or any officer (or any person acting under that officer) of the United States or of any agency thereof, in an official or individual capacity, for or relating to any act under color of such office or on account of any right, title or authority claimed under any Act of Congress for the apprehension or punishment of criminals or the collection of the revenue.
I think
and I may be wrong
that in a case in federal court, it'd be up to federal prosecutors to prosecute. I don't know if the Trump administration actually has to prosecute them in that scenario.
Not something that I've read up on before, though. I imagine that there are probably articles out there with various lawyers chiming in.
searches more
https://poracldf.org/blog/supremacy-clause-immunity-for-federal-officers/
In short, subjecting federal officers to state criminal sanctions for carrying out their federally appointed duties could make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for the federal government to function. Even the most dedicated federal servant would be reluctant to do his job conscientiously if he knew it could mean prison time in the state penitentiary. Seth P. Waxman, What Kind of Immunity? Federal Officers, State Criminal Law, and the Supremacy Clause, 112 Yale L.J. 2195, 2230-31 (2003).4
In carving out the contours to the federal immunity defense, the courts have established a two-part requirement, adopting in part the Neagle language: “a state court has no jurisdiction if (1) the federal agent was performing an act which he was authorized to do by the laws of the United States and in (2) performing that authorized act, the federal agency did no more than was necessary and proper for him to do.” Commonwealth of Kentucky v. Long, 837 F.2d 727 (6th Cir. 1988).
Significantly, in analyzing the second “necessary and proper” factor, particularly in the context of an agent acting under exigencies, the courts have applied a broad view of the reasonableness of the conduct, focusing “on the intent of the officer and not the actual legality of his action.” Colorado v. Nord, 377 F. Supp. 2d 945, 951 (D. Col. 2005) (emphasizing “a federal officer is still entitled to immunity when he acts in good faith within the general scope of his duties as he understands them;” id. at 950); Clifton v. Cox, 549 F.2d 722, 728 (9th Cir. 1977) (federal officer seeking immunity need not show that his action “was, in fact, necessary or in retrospect justifiable, only that he reasonably thought it to be”). Just as Neagle involved a murder prosecution, the nature of the state prosecution is not the controlling factor; rather, the only consideration is the intent of the officer in enforcing his federal responsibilities. As Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes emphasized, “even the most unquestionable and most universally applicable of state laws, such as those concerning murder, will not be allowed to control the conduct of a marshal of the United States acting under and in pursuance of the laws of the United States.” Johnson v. Maryland, 254 U.S. 51, 56-57 (1920).
As five Ninth Circuit judges agree, not only is the federal immunity provision construed broadly but great leeway is given to a federal agent, so long as the agent is not acting with an evil intent: “when the federal agent is acting reasonably within the broad contours of official duty, and without malice, the courts have employed the Supremacy Clause to protect the agent from prosecution.” Idaho v. Horiuchi, 253 F.3d 359 (9th Cir.) (en banc), vacated as moot, 266 F.3d 979 (9th Cir. 2001) (Hawkins, dissenting).
looks further
Okay, it sounds
and this is just from the phrasing in an article that's arguing in favor of state charges for one of the ICE situations
like state prosecutors can prosecute even in the case that the prosecution is moved to federal court:
https://prospect.org/2026/01/07/ice-agents-can-be-charged-with-murder/
The history of state prosecutions of federal officials goes back to the War of 1812, when some New England states used state statutes to prosecute federal customs officers who seized goods that were under a trade embargo. Often, they are used to resist a federal law that states don’t like, such as the Fugitive Slave Act.
But numerous states have indicted, charged, and arrested federal law enforcement officers for conduct that exceeded their official duties. In 1898, Virginia charged a federal tax collector posse with shooting and killing horses and cattle during a shootout. The federal posse claimed they were ambushed while attempting to collect taxes.
More to the point, in Findley v. Satterfield (1877), Castle v. Lewis (1918), Oregon v. Wood (1920), Smith v. Gilliam (1922), Maryland v. Soper (1926), and many more, states alleged that federal officers committed murder or attempted murder while engaged in law enforcement activity. Almost always, the federal response was that they were performing federal duties, that they acted in self-defense, or both. Often, these cases were removed to federal court, but the state prosecutors maintained the case. (Federal officers have the right to move cases to federal court, but not the unlimited right; they have to assert some plausible federal defense to the charges.)
EDIT: Well, or what they're actually saying is that they're trying to continue the case in state court. I'm not going to spend a lot of time trying to dig into this really deeply, because I suspect that there are going to be various legal commentators with a lot more expertise than me talking about this in short order if there are charges filed. But at least I wanted to highlight one issue likely to come up if there are attempts to prosecute in state court.
EDIT2: Yes, state prosecutors do retain control of the prosecution if the case is moved to a federal court. Here's a better source (talking about the Good shooting, but same issue):
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/minnesota-can-prosecute-jonathan-ross-but-it-may-not-be-easy
Finally, whether Supremacy Clause immunity applies will almost certainly be decided by a federal court, even though any criminal charges would first be filed in Minnesota state court. That is because federal officials are able to remove both criminal and civil cases from state court to federal court if those cases involve actions taken “under color of” their federal office. If charged, Ross would almost certainly choose to remove the case. Even in federal court, however, state criminal prosecutors would remain in charge of the prosecution, and any conviction would be a conviction under state law. And the president cannot pardon a state law crime.
Citizens are also constitutionally entitled to refuse entry to government agents who don't have a warrant signed by a judge. ICE is blatantly ignoring that fact with the full blessing of the federal government. Laws are not being followed. Making a legal argument in the face of that kind of situation is pointless. You do what is in your power to do and let history judge the result. Call in the guard and force them to spring the "trap" we all know is coming. At least then it will be absolutely clear to everyone what is happening.
Citizens are also constitutionally entitled to refuse entry to government agents who don’t have a warrant signed by a judge. ICE is blatantly ignoring that fact with the full blessing of the federal government.
In that exact same memo, it is noted that they cannot force entry when serving warrants in a certain district.
They cannot do that because a Judge has ordered them to not do that.
Laws are not being followed.
That is true and that is the fault of the Legislative branch which has standing to bring the issue to court. They have chosen not to do that because Rs are still backing Trump.
When a case gets in front of the Judicial branch, which is still mostly functioning unlike the Legislative branch, courts have ruled against Trump in almost every single case and those same Judges have been effective at having their orders followed.
The Judicial branch is why there are no National Guard members in California, this is why Abrego Garcia is back in the US, it is why the AG for SDNY was removed from her position, it is why Mahmoud Khali is not deported.
The Judicial branch has just as much authority and power as the Executive or Legislative but it doesn't have standing to sue the government independently and can only work through cases brought to it. The Republican-led Legislative branch is choosing to not file the cases that could meaningfully restrict the administration.
He can't arrest them anymore than you can.
Walz could call the national guard to protect the protesters
He called them to help the police. "With what?" is the obvious question.
Prventing ICE from speeding into a neighborhood, murdering bytanders and speeding off again with the whole of the narrative in their control. I’m guessing.
Oh, are they? Find me an instance of them stopping ICE, then.
Order them by threat of force
Anything else is just more posturing and god, we've seen so much posturing already
Or just hand over your voter rolls https://bsky.app/profile/chrismurphyct.bsky.social/post/3md7idhl3mc23
It is not within the authority of the Governor of the state to use force against federal agents.
These people pushing violence really seem to be happy with just throwing away everything about the country that we're trying to save. These people are in lock step with the MAGA bots on the issue:
- Rules (only when I want them),
- Violence (excusable if the target is right),
- Democracy (They're trying to steal it so lets throw it in the garbage before they can).
Don't confuse a lot of upvotes with a popular opinion, it is trivial to make vote boosting bots on Lemmy.
If you are in the US, these people pushing this violent rhetoric are not on your side and are trying to push us into the same chaos as the MAGA forces.
While the National Guard is prohibited from performing law enforcement on behalf of the President under the Posse Comitatus Act, the governor of the state they're operating in can deputies them.for law enforcement.
He doesn't need to wage war on ICE. He just needs them to be chaparroned by armed Nation Guard troops anywhere they go, and have them arrest ICE goons when they violate the law. If ICE gets proper judicial warrants and executes them lawfully, then there shouldn't be any problems.
An important distinction on warrants is that an immigration judge cannot issue a judicial warrant because even though the word "judge" is in their title, they aren't part of the judicial branch. They're employees of the executive branch, so any warrants they hand out are administrative in nature and cannot legally be used to enter private property without consent.
While the National Guard is prohibited from performing law enforcement on behalf of the President under the Posse Comitatus Act, the governor of the state they’re operating in can deputies them.for law enforcement.
Yes.
He doesn’t need to wage war on ICE. He just needs them to be chaparroned by armed Nation Guard troops anywhere they go, and have them arrest ICE goons when they violate the law. If ICE gets proper judicial warrants and executes them lawfully, then there shouldn’t be any problems.
That isn't what the person that I replied to was suggesting, nor what I was replying to.
If the Governor decided to "Order them by threat of force" to leave MN then he was be operating outside of his authority and would be ignored. If he attempted to use force against federal forces in an attempt to make them leave then he would be in armed rebellion against the US and would be arrested.
The only thing protecting him, the protestors, etc, is that they have not give Trump a reason to fabricate an excuse to use the Insurrection act that would survive a Federal court issuing a TRO. The protests have been peaceful (outside of a few ICE agents rioting with tear gas and less lethal munitions) and the public statements by officials have been measured so as to not allow them the slightest excuse that would stand up in court. The Trump admin's only move here is to try to make inflammatory statements.
They don't have any more ICE agents (and recruitment is drying up) that is why this is happening only in one place, this is everything they can muster. So they're putting everything into one place to both punish MN people for voting against him and to create a violent reality TV show that keeps everyone tuned in instead of talking about the Epstein files, or Trump's billion dollar profits from corruption, or the exploding cost of food, or the shitty foreign policy disaster that he's created.
The protests and the terrible PR skills of the administration are showing effect. Go look at any reputable polling, Trump has always been unpopular outside of his base but now he is starting to lose support among his actual base. Right now, people are sickened by the attack and the government's response blaming him owning a gun. 2nd Amendment supporters have typically been Trump supporters but they have broken with him because of the administration's framing of 'he had a gun and therefore deserved to die'. Even the NRA tweeted out against this framing.
Trump is tapped out, he's hired every white supremacist and opportunist and only has a few thousand people to muster that will do the violence that he wants and even that is backfiring on him. He has been unable to fabricate other distractions (Greenland, Canada, Venezuela, etc) and has been incompetent in handling emerging events leading to even more backlash.
People framing this like this is our last chance and only violence or armed rebellion will save us are outside agitators or the useful idiots that they control. This framing is based on the ICE circus in MN and social media propaganda, not reality.
In reality, Trump is out of troops, out of support, dying in the polls (and possibly IRL) and is running out of allies, like MTG, as more Rs smell the blood in the water and jump ship. Every major public case in the courts have gone against him, he's lost the VAST majority of other cases (source: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/projects-series/trials-of-the-trump-administration), his tariffs have pissed off the entire world and their response is targeted at his rich supporters (i.e. Jack Daniels distillery boycott).
The only thing that he can hope for is to find an excuse to invoke the Insurrection act so that it won't be immediately blocked by a Federal Judge. Everyone that is here pushing for violence is trying to create the only out that Trump has left.
Trump isn't all powerful, he's playing the media game and has an army of bots from the various dictators around the world who want to see the US fail.
You can have the national guard follow and chaperone ICE. There are no laws that say you must allow federal agents to break the law in front of you. They should be arrested when witnessing them violate the constitution.
I'm sorry, but saving a democracy?
You can try and save the country from a civil war, maybe, but the US hasn't been anywhere near a democracy for decades now. It's just much more visible what it really is.
I'm not calling for violence, but the ilother side is violent and they're not going to stop. Maga will eventually only listen to violence.
If you think that judges will make a difference then I can only tell you to get your head out of your ass, Maga politicians and organizations have been ignoring one court order after another, or get the supreme court to just say it's fine.
I don't know what it'll take to fix this, but asking kindly will not suffice, that much is clear
If you think that judges will make a difference then I can only tell you to get your head out of your ass, Maga politicians and organizations have been ignoring one court order after another, or get the supreme court to just say it’s fine.
This is just nonsense and not based in reality.
Here is the list of every single case involving the Trump administration: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/projects-series/trials-of-the-trump-administration/tracking-trump-administration-litigation The vast majority of cases are losses and denied on appeal.
Are there still troops in California after the judge ordered them out? Is Kilmar Garcia still in CECOT after a judge ordered him returned? Has Mahmoud Khalil been deported despite a court order?
No, because the court orders are being followed. Yes, the US Justice Department lawyers do everything they can to avoid following them but they cannot tell a Judge no and the Judge is overseeing the case until their orders are followed.
You're not arguing based on reality, you're arguing based on social media optics.
I don’t know what it’ll take to fix this, but asking kindly will not suffice, that much is clear
"I'm not recommending violence, but nothing else will work"
Having an Impeachment trial, and blocking funding for DHS isn't 'asking nicely' these are the powers that check the Executive branch in the US system of government.
If you don't believe in that system of government then you're no better than the alt-right fascists and are allied with enemies of the US.
LOL. you will lay face down in mud with the boots of an ICE on the back of your head and still think, "well, at least I upheld the dignity of Democracy!".
GTFO with your "b-but both sides are bad!" garbage.
This is an extremely egregious and dishonest comment. You are ironically waxing poetic about the law that the current admin has torn to shreds with the help of this lawless force that everyone else actually wants to stop. Let's take a look here:
- Yes, we have to change the rules. It's actually very rare that oppressive laws are overturned through entirely legal means. "I can kidnap, torture, and kill people if the state says it's okay" is not the same as "Holy shit suspend that immediately I don't care if it's against the rules to do so".
- Yes, violence is excusable if the target is committing heinous acts of wanton violence. We shouldn't finger-wag murderers
- This goes back to point one, if your ""democracy"" allows for people to be violently oppressed like this, it is a total farce, and NEEDS to be entirely revamped.
You are, painfully obviously, someone who cares more about "stability" and "order" (dude just let the ruling class brutalize people every now and then, don't rock the boat too hard) than any sense of actual justice and safety. Stop defending literal politicians, who INTENTIONALLY put themselves in this situation and BLOCK anyone actually willing to help stop this madness, while you encourage the already-oppressed masses to take on more trauma with far fewer resources. Note how you don't even end your comment with any call to action like mutual aid, just "lalala these frustrated netizens are fake people block your ears!!", fix this
You're sure beating up those strawmen positions that I never stated or even believe.
You're coming in here arguing that being mean to fascist goons is bad, and then when multiple people disagree you go "I actually, uh, didn't mean what I typed directly in my comment!!"
Both of the things you've typed here are genuinely useless. Go talk to your neighbors and help them instead of being a counterrevolutionary on Lemmy. There's a comment a bit further up on this very thread with extremely useful information, go read it.
there's no question of authority here. you shoot someone you get arrested.
Another toothless message. What a joke. Trump is going to invoke the Insurrection Act regardless of what you do. At least protect your damn citizens from cold-blooded federal jackboots!
Using the cold-blooded state jackboots? Where's the force that would side with protestors strongly enough to go up against ICE?
If they push hard enough the citizens of MN will engage in asymmetric warfare like every other occupied group. The IRA, Palestinians, Vietnamese, Iraqis, etc. It's the ultimate way to deal with militarily superior occupying forces. I can see IEDs blowing these federal thugs to the moon.
also includes doxxing, and hacking thier personal info and releasing it.
Americans are complacent. Part of it is living paycheck to paycheck, and part of it is that the bread and circuses have quite a few psychological tricks and chemical boosts to make them much more addictive than anything the romans could have dreamed of.
That "push hard" bit will need to be as extreme as the bombing campaign against the vietnamese was in order to get any action.
he likely got the same orders that schumer and jefferies got, not to get in the way of ice. behind close doors.
Cut power to their buildings and to the hotels they're staying. Now that it's super cold out. Threaten them with freezing. Then order a slow as fuck inquiry to find out why there is no power and clutch your pearls.
If you genuinely want to disrupt them, you can.
Otherwise STFU with the rhetorical posturing.
Lead or get out of the way. Enough.
It seems likely to me he/ dems know this will tip off a civil war and they are still hoping to find a different way of dealing with this. Something less bloody. No decent person wants to make the choice that is the final straw before thousands die. Also, even if they recognize it to be inevitable it is necessary to wait until the masses are aligned. The way you-and all the rest of us- are getting fed up is a sign the fruit is almost ripe.
Or they could just be compromised cowards. It doesn't really matter actually, at some point the tide will flood the city streets and then someone will show up to lead.
If he and the mayor really care, why don't they use city police to enforce the laws ICE and CBP are violating on a daily basis? They may have federal immunity but they are committing state crimes in broad daylight like it's going out of style. Arrest some criminals like you're supposed to. Not an all-out war between police forces, just, you know, regular law enforcement.
it seems like ice/cpd would be easily scared off if any police or armed presence suddenly appear, right now they both arnt doing anything. trumpis going to escalate it anyways, and politically they are trying to turn the state towards the gop out of frustation that the dems arnt doing anything.
i can see why he was so ineffective during the campaign as well, you cant play to republicans emotions about disabled people when they are making fun of them.

top 93 comments