1161
Ring Cameras Join Flock and Amazon to Now Create Direct Data Access for ICE (lemmy.world)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
232 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

https://hrnews1.substack.com/p/ring-cameras-join-flock-and-amazon?r=1t17zr

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[–] 211 points 9 months ago (25 children)

We can only hope these companies are treated as collaborators in the future.

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  • [–] 59 points 9 months ago (13 children)

    How were collaborators treated the last time around though?

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  • [–] 115 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    Volkswagen, Ford, UBS, and IBM are all doing pretty well.

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  • [–] 44 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Even the company that made the gas for hitlers gas chambers are still around

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  • [–] 34 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Zyklon-B, the pesticide used in the gas chambers, was still being manufactured, sold and used (for its intended pesticide usage) all the way up until the 2010s iirc.

    and this was still under the Zyklon name.

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  • [–] 29 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    All those rocket engineers got cushy jobs with NASA too.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    Not that it makes it any better, but at least they tried hiding operation paperclip. Hopefully indicating some kind of shame.

    Volkswagen didn't even change their name

    Barely changed the logo

    "Yeah we were the nazi car company who helped do the holocaust. That was a doozy. Anyways, wanna buy a nazi car?"

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  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Nike, Adidas

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    How was Nike involved? They didn't exist until ~ the 70s I thought.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Sorry, Hugo Boss

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    You presumably mean that Hugo Boss ‘designed the SS uniform’ — which he didn't, as he wasn't a designer and the company wasn't in fashion design until after his death. The uniform was designed by two dudes in the SS, and Hugo Boss' company was one of many manufacturers contracted for production.

    Hugo Boss was a member of the Nazi party, though.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    When do you people WAKE UP? What accountability? What responsibility? When in the last decade plus has any if that happened?

    I'm sure it's just around the corner....

    Open your damn eyes. The entire planet can see it, why are Americans so blind?l is it intentional? You guys let J6 slide ffs, why would there be an ounce of accountability now or ever? UNREAL

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (9 children)

    It's very real. This is history repeating itself for the umpteenth time. You aren't the first, nor will you be the last one to scream into the void about people who have been deliberately disenfranchised by their government with the direct intent of making them toothless against what is essentially a fascist regime.

    The problem is that you're screaming a lot but not offering actual solutions except a general idea of "Fight!". That's not helpful, and it sounds a lot like condescension.

    I understand that you're expressing frustration and disbelief and anger. But people here are angry too and they are fighting where they can. But as this and other news is very demonstrative of, the system is rigged against them and things get worse in that regard every day.

    App stores removing apps that track ICE. People who share their outrage but not solutions/who don't boost actual efforts to fight.

    News articles that focus solely on the bad part and offer no solutions. The fact that you don't come across many posts with actual solutions isn't a bug, it's intentional. People ignore things that help so they can remain outraged, supercilious, and smug.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The problem is that you're screaming a lot but not offering actual solutions except a general idea of "Fight!". That's not helpful, and it sounds a lot like condescension.

    None of this stopped USians from endlessly writing on Reddit for the past four years that Russians should've overthrown Putin, and I didn't see them helping plan a revolution.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    I have tried to explain to Americans here and on reddit and other places too that the political landscape in Russia is very different and that what we think is possible is all passed through the lens of our own government and country. But people are gonna people.

    For what it's worth, I don't agree with those people whole sale either. I recognize that what they're asking the Russian populace to do is tantamount to a death or slavery sentence.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (6 children)

    All I've heard for 40 years of life is 2a this and 2a that. Turns out it was just an excuse for school shootings and gun nuts to keep their toys. Your answer is staring you in the face, whether you want to acknowledge or not is another thing.

    Do you really believe the traditional channels will be of any use? Or have those already - long, long - been compromised?

    Even if the channels had just been neutered yesterday, do yoy really think Trump would give back an inch? He'll TACO all day on tariffs, but on human rights violations he is consistent - take and never return.

    You're platitudes are lovely, and in fairness, not even entirely incorrect. But what you, and eveidently millions and millions of Americans don't seem to understand, is the milk has already been spilled. The how and the why are for scholars a hundred years from now to sort out. For today, tomorrow and the day after, y'all need to find a way to stop the continous slide. It's not getting easier next week or the week after.

    Label me WHATEVER you like that gets people's ASSES IN GEAR. As angry as I am, amazingly enough I am still on your side. I should be flushing every bloody word an American speaks to me straight down the toilet after your Dear Leader and half the country shit on an ally in ways never seen before. Yet here I am, trying to propel you people to acknowlegde the real situation for what it is. Why is that? Truthfully, I'm selfish. I'd love to not have to take up arms to defend my border, but let's be honest, that's inevitable if Americans don't clean up their own shit.

    So before you come and tell me how smug and supercilious I'm being, take a moment to realize this - becuase of your people's patently obvius shitty decisions, I have to enlist and potentially PUT MY LIFE ON THE LINE to defend my country against an 'ally'. Pardon me for not giving a fuck about your spineless response and pages of assinine commentary.

    GO DO SOMETHING.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    There's a lot of armed people here willing to fight, but without some kind of organized call-to-arms (whether it be militias or state national guard), all that's gonna happen is you're going to be arrested and given a 20+ year prison sentence for assault on a federal officer with a deadly weapon. It's easy to say you'd fight back, but a lot of us have families to provide for and can't just throw away our lives like that.

    Right now, we're lacking leadership, and most democrats in power don't have the balls to openly call for resistance. I don't know what the future holds, but I feel we're nearing a breaking point where we might start seeing armed resistance.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    You are clearly not wrong. However, the question I would return with: if not violence, what mechanism for change will actually move a lever?

    I'm certainly at my most pessimistic moment, but sincerely I don't see how this changes for your countrymen at this point without violence...? What realistic compromise could we even draw up? The two sides are diametrically opposed. There isn't common ground because there isn't even a common reality. The legal system seems righed and there is no leadership. You have touched on some of these points yourself.

    I'll take a try at what a compromise might look like:

    -- Trump agrees to go door to door with Minnesota Police. This gurantees:

    1. The process is done slowly and unchaotically. This is what MN wants.
    2. Every single address is searched and the potential for immigrant removal is near 100%. This is what Trump wants.

    This solution would save lives, but also give up significant civil liberties. It's the best I can think up. Hopefully you are more creative than I am.

    My last comment: I too have a family. And many extended family. And friends across Canada. It is on behalf of these people that I'm so passionate. And I can also appreciate your concerns also because of these same people. These are two sides of the same coin.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    You fail to understand that this wasn't an attack on you, but commentary about the state of things and how they look from the inside rather than the outside.

    And as someone who did enlist, I'm gonna just point out something. Your country should never have allowed allyship with the USA to divest you of a fighting force worthy of protecting your own assets, borders, or sovereignty.

    I absolutely don't agree that the US should be fucking about in any other country. But the entire world never even batted an eye when we were setting up puppet regimes and destabilizing whole countries where brown people live. So you'll figure me if our problematic behavior has finally landed on your doorstep. I don't agree with the shit we've done in South America, The Middle East, or half a dozen African countries.

    But I also grew up in poverty and found my way out of that through enlistment, so I was part of the problem whether I wanted to be or not.

    I am trying to have empathy for you and people like you while pointing out that our government is literally kidnapping people off the street and essentially using FLOK cameras as legal wiretaps. The people who are doing something need help to boost the signal and people are ignoring them.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago*

    There is something your citizenry could do, but unfortunately they lack the unity to do it nor can most of them put up with the hardship it would entail. The size of the nation in terms of distance isn’t a problem, smaller populations with just as much distance have successfully protested in unity. It’s unity itself and the inability to put up with hardship.

    That is to stop work, stop buying anything you can, grind the means of production to a halt. Yeah, people would lose jobs they don’t want, healthcare which is inadequate anyway and housing that will still be available once the goal is achieved, which is to force the houses to act on impeachment and whatever amendments and institutional rules exist to remove this administration.

    Violence or inciting violence is not the answer and I think I’d be preaching to the converted on this one, you said you were an ex serviceman. Sure, all your citizens should have on hand whatever means they can to defend themselves (as is their constitutional right) but you know as well as I do where that will end up.

    The easiest method to stop this is voting; in every election where the position requires election from the people, you’re there. You tell your employer you will be before you take a new job, it’s that important. That’s why the Republicans are where they are, because their people vote. It might be the only redeeming quality they have.

    That one’s done now though. The next easiest is what I suggested above and it has to be done, or you’re done because I can’t see a fair midterm happening. They have to be removed. It’ll work if enough stop.

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  • [+] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I understand your frustration, but take a moment to remember you are where you are because you didn’t vote in numbers.

    People overseas are threatened by this without having a choice in that. So yeah, they may have to defend themselves against your military because you are too lazy to vote as a collective.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Yes, everyone is a bot. You're right. And this is an alt account. Nice work Sherlock. I guess that makes everything I said incorrect? Because my account is 15 days old? Nice strawman.

    I'll entertain this so it's in writing:

    1. I had never heard of Lemmy until a few months ago. Why is that? Because I am actively divesting from US assets and companies. Why is that? Clearly Trump and the last 12 months.
    2. I enjoyed Reddit. Quite a bit. I was reluctant to leave because of all subreddits I'd curated and they have great niche places. Their sports communities are second to none, for example.
    3. I fully admit the first time I tried to setup Lemmy it was a fail. I went back to Reddit for another few months as a result.
    4. Trump continues and continues to insult his allies and the 101 other things he's done to make humanity worse off than the day before. So again I made a push to divest.
    5. SO I TRIED LEMMY AGAIN. Imagine the horror, I had to make an account at some point. Apologies I wasn't a super duper early adopter like you were. Frankly, if Trump isn't President I never show up here at all.

    Do yoy wanna run that through ChatGPT to make sure it's authentic?

    So back to the ACTUAL DISCUSSION POINT: This isn't about my spine you idiot. I didn't vote for him and I'm not an American citizen. YOU HAD THE CHANCE. He was voted out and then allowed to return. I had zero ability to influence any of that.

    And because of your countries moral bankruptcy, now we are preparing to defend ourselves against an 'ally'. Many nations are doing so.

    Just going to ignore all that?

    And finally, I AM PROUD TO SERVE MY COUNTRY. AND I WILL ANSWER THE CALL WHEN THE TIME COMES. Even though I nor my nation had anything to do with the shit storm that is landing on our front step. Also while Americans themselves, who got us to this point, are being trampled on and not standing up for what is right. So yeah, if you guys did anything whatsoever, we wouldn't be here. He was voted out ffs.

    Back over to your strawman. But before you start again, let's not forget letting that little J6 thing completely slide by without any consequence... what a joke.

    EDIT: Calls me a bot and an alt, strawmans and then DELETES the comment outright. Guess that rebuttal was 10/10. Nice work @ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world

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    • [–] 97 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

    While you’re at it, don’t buy from amazon

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  • [–] 30 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    There was a time when I thought that was impossible... now I don't even have an account

    I think my wife keeps one because according to her (and I believe this is true) there are things you just can't buy elsewhere anymore. So far, I have been fine not buying something if it's only on Amazon but I can see cases where that would be impossible.

    Other than that, fuck Amazon right off

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    thing you just can't buy elsewhere anymore

    Yes and no. For example I had to buy double-sided tape and went into four different stores in different areas of my city and only found it in the fourth store after researching.

    I checked on Amazon after the fact, and could have had it delivered to my door same-day lol.

    I don't believe there's anything you can only buy on Amazon... but it IS so bloody convenient.

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    • [–] 70 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Oh look another smart technology I didn't adopt for the exact reason being talked about. You can't trust big tech to not collaborate with whoever it's the most profitable to collaborate with.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    You can't trust big tech to not collaberate with, big tech either. You don't want them with your information, even if it's not readily apparent how it could hurt you. Before you know it you could be in a fascist dictatorship and wondering how you got there, this is part of the reason. Or would be in that completely hypothetical situation that in no way mirrors our own situation with our dear most intelligent and not al all dickish supreme leader.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    It's not really a trust thing. They are companies, not people. The top decision makers have a fubuciary responsibility to do whatever makes money. They can, and often do, get sued if they don't. So you can expect them to sell you out. It's literally thier purpose for existing.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (3 children)
    • fiduciary
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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    You're right, of course, but I really enjoyed "fubuciary". It's a deliblicious misplomuncitation.

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    • [–] 46 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Can we all agree to print out flyers of this to share around with neighbors and our communities? People ARE under educated. It starts with us educating because the oligarchs wont

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I doubt that anyone who has a ring camera, alexa and anything like that will care. Maybe people who think about getting one will, but a random flyer?

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    I care. I have Ring because it was the fastest way to get cameras on my property after trouble with neighbors. I found out how liberal they are with user data and handing it over to law enforcement but I couldn't justify the expense in upgrading. For me this isn't a bridge too far in a moral sense but more like a powerful reminder I've been lax in my responsibility. I'm pricing out some Reolink cameras I can host locally at home and put on a private subnet I can just VPN into. I'll have to buy the kit piecemeal because I don't have a lot of money to toss around but I am firmly committed to getting off Ring cameras in light of this news.

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    • [–] 147 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Oh noooo, that thing we warned people about when it came out is being misused in exactly the way we warned people it would be misused.

    Oh nooooo.

    I'm tired grandpa. Too damn many stupid people in this world.

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  • [+] -8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    world

    The US. The rest of us don’t have an ICE problem nor an obsession with this kind of shit.

    Edit: Americans really don’t like their actions and responsibility handed back to them do they? God they’re getting fucking tiring.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    That is simply not true.

    Here in the EU we have chat control trying to be forced through every year for mass surveillance and targeting like Spain targeting catalan independence movements.

    Palantir is starting to expand into the EU and american fash-tech companies have been lobbying hard and giving money to fascist parties across the EU. Musk gave unprescidented money of AfD fascists, for example.

    UK has been getting more and more fascist for years, they have had mass surveillance for years and have been arresting people for simply attending zoom meetings supporting a country being killed off en-masse. Palantir literally just landed a £240 million deal with the UK government

    We don't have an ICE problem yet. Neither did america 10 years ago. It is being pushed HARD here to create an ICE problem.

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    • [–] 35 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    This really highlights how important it is for people to understand what they’re opting into with smart devices. Transparency and informed choice matter more than ever.

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    • [–] 33 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Tl;dr surveillance equipment working perfectly, used for dystopian surveillance. Major shocker.

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    • [–] 30 points 9 months ago

    Here's an archive link in case anyone else refuses to give Substack views due to their affinity for Nazis: https://archive.is/ns4Yq

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    [–] 26 points 9 months ago

    Ditch your internet connected shit and boycott these companies

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    [–] 25 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    I enjoy having cameras on my house to see what's going on in the neighborhood. It has come in handy at least once when my neighbor's truck was stolen in broad daylight.

    They are ring cameras because two were installed already when I moved in. What should I switch to? I just really want motion alerts and proof when something bad happens.

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Unifi Ubiquiti products are one of the best option for completely local data hosting and camera services with really good "ai" detections all run locally, but they aren't that cheap and you'll need to buy one of their Unifi protect capable routers to get started, which is gonna be like $300 by itself.

    Edit: Looks like they have a standalone recorder with a 3.5 inch drive bay but it's still $200, and also most of their cameras are Ethernet. They do have a couple wireless options but not many.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    Ethernet is the standard for security cameras anyway. It's a higher quality feed which is important for indisputable evidence in a court of law. Just about every Wifi camera is either seriously lacking in resolution, frame rate, or both. Wifi cameras are also stupidly easy to jam with like $10 worth of equipment and minimal knowledge..

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    https://reolink.com/

    Offers all the features Google/Amazon do, but without the subscriptions.

    Plus they joined the open home foundation, so they're unlikely to enshitify.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago* (7 children)

    unlikely to enshitify.

    That might be some wishful thinking. I tried getting some Reolink cameras a neighbor decided to buy on his own, to work with Blue Iris the other day, there was no way to configure them without installing their shitty app. All they have to do is just like every other not-shitty camera, enable DHCP, RTSP and ONVIF by default and then fuck off. But that's not happening.

    I told him to send them back, I wasn't going to deal with them.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I have a Reolink setup that's entirely air-gapped. No app required, just configure everything through the NVR unit.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Initial setup with Reolink is hit or miss. You're right that those settings are off by default, which sucks. The better cameras host their own WebUI with which you can login and make changes with no app required, but the cheaper ones cut that corner and need the app. With that said, yes it is an initial hoop you might have to jump through, but once done and isolated you'll never have to deal with it again. It's a worthy trade off for the affordability and featureset IMO, but of course it could always be better.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Except they're not all that affordable for the features. Not many that are POE, and their MP/optizoom compared to cameras half their price isn't great. I can get Amcrest or Vikylin for less, and have everything that Reolink doesn't out of the box. You also have to be careful with them that you don't get Reolink NVR-locked cameras.

    I've heard Reolink touted a lot and so far I'm not seeing the advantage.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I got a doorbell camera with full Home Assistant support and a 180 fisheye camera for around $100 each (don't remember the exact price). I could use the built in recording until i got my NVR setup and it scaled with me. I thought they were great value.

    Now, if you want just a bunch of standard cameras to cover your house with, maybe those other options are better, I'll save your post and take a look if I'm ever in the market. I'm not a camera expert, just a tech/home auto enthusiast so they work for what I want.

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    • [–] 23 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I remember last year when there was a trend of AI generated videos that depicted animals or people doing ridiculous and crazy things on doorbell cameras. Everyone was surprised at how realistic they looked but never questioned why there was enough training data of doorbell cameras to make them in the first place.

    Not that relevant, but it makes it pretty clear how "private" this data was in the first place.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    To be fair, a LOT of people voluntarily post doorbell videos on public sites like Facebook, X, Next Door etc. plenty for AI to scrape without even touching "private" brands.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Also, even this is vastly overstating how difficult that it would be.

    You don't need to train an entire network to make doorbell camera videos/pictures. There are techniques (like IP Adapters) that can take a single photo during inference and copy the style onto any other generated work. With applications like ComfyUI, this is a matter of dropping a node onto the generation graph and choosing a photo (or several photos), 3-4 clicks.

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    • [–] 21 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Is there some really good open source and local cameras that people are using? Because many people default to ring.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    I am looking at using Eufy, no subscription. Unsure of potential of it joining the darkside.

    Edit: China-owned, so it's a pick-your-poison kind of deal.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago*

    Eufy is a sub-brand of Anker, for those unaware.

    You can connect Eufy cameras to your NAS (RTSP) if you want to completely avoid sending the recording to the cloud, or only stored on the MicroSD card.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    You can just use analog security cameras and a DVR of your choosing. Don't let the word analog fool you, the cameras are available in up to 4K resolution. Since the video is recorded to the DVR and not some random company's server it is safe. It requires a little more setup and know-how but it is by no means difficult. Check the surveillance section on B&H's website. There are tons of options.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    Not sure if it is open source, but I switched to ReoLink a while back and have been very happy with it. Good Home Assistant integration, no subscription, and everything can be local (store video clips to an onboard SD Card).

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    • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Dammit, I fell for rings assurances of “only in response to a warrant”. Mostly out of laziness, but still ….. I really am going to have to figure out self hosting a video doorbell, aren’t i

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    Bare in mind that the government requires a warrant to obtain data against you, the barrier in which to get a warrant requires probable cause.

    Obtaining data about you from a company only requires a subpoena if the company doesn't cooperate.

    BUYING data about you from the same company is completely allowed.

    Until we get privacy laws, we are truly fucked.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Ubiquiti offers a product that will do that out of the box iirc but I have no idea if it's good.

    Still ring has been handing stuff to the cops for years at this point. They only "stopped" recently and I guess started again.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Ubiquiti offers a product that will do that out of the box

    1. You need to host a controller for it. It needs the Protect platform to interface with. You can host that for free.
    2. The hardware is fine.
    3. The included app is marginal
    4. it supports onifv and can be added to blue-iris or frigate.
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    • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I bought a ring camera in 2018 and I haven't replaced it. They disabled color view to try to get me to to buy a new one. Thankfully I haven't connected it to Amazon or anything yet. I immediately disconnected it after reading this, fucking Amazon.

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    • [–] 35 points 9 months ago

    this is great news for my leftist in-laws who decided to get ring cameras out of the convenience they offered.

    I did warn them that this would happen, but like most people, "that would never happen!"

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