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[–] [S] 92 points 9 months ago (5 children)

“I used to think EGS was a Marketing Black Hole,” the New Blood CEO said, “but turns out having your game be free on Epic is great advertising for Steam sales!” Alongside the boost in Steam sales, Blood West also saw a jump in console sales as well while it was free on Epic.

That's incredible.

Oshry is far from the only developer to point out issues with the Epic Games Store. Just recently, in an interview with FRVR, Painkiller and Witchfire creator Adrian Chmielarz explained that Epic doesn’t feel like “home” to players, and that causes many to simply clock out, saying “EGS is a shop, and Steam is a community.”

I have a lot of free games on Epic. But when I want to play with my gaming group, we're using Steam. It's just where everybody is.

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  • [–] 33 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Indeed, I suspect the sales funnel is like this: one person picks it up for free on EGS and then annoys their friends to get it as well for multiplayer, but those friends rather buy it on Steam than to bother with installing another (bad) store app. At least I had that happen to me a few times.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Under Linux, running a game on Epic is a pain next to Steam, so if the game is good enough...

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago*

    I, for the life of me, cannot figure out how to set up just the UnrealStore, FAB, whatever its called now, on Bazzite.

    My latest attempt saw me setting up a Debian container and ending up with 100GB of trying to compile Unreal from scratch.

    As far as I can tell, if you are running an atomic linux distro, it is onerous to be able to figure out how to just download like, a free material set or model from FAB.

    I've barely managed to get it reliably working for Unity... and then Unity goes and basically merges with Unreal and FAB.

    Yeah like, Heroic works for playing a game, but fuck you, apparently, is Unreal's stance on trying to access content I legally own that isn't a game.

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  • [–] 41 points 9 months ago

    Sometimes the DLC for the free game on epic costs the same as the full package on steam. So epic is an extended demo really

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  • [–] 40 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago*

    Sure, try the buggy Epic version then buy the usable Steam version.

    Also, imagine making a launcher that is so trash people will buy games on other platforms just to not deal with it.

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  • [–] 49 points 9 months ago

    It's a win for everyone except Epic. PURE BLISS.

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  • [–] 34 points 9 months ago* (7 children)

    The current free game are the two Styx games. I grabbed them on Steam when I saw they went 90% off so I'd have an easier time running them on my legion go and my Android phone. I learned of the games because of them being the EGS free game and the game looked up my alley

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/242640/Styx_Master_of_Shadows/

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/355790/Styx_Shards_of_Darkness/

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    I had no idea this existed(I never even look at EGS), thanks. Now I can live out my WoW Goblin Rogue fantasies.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    While I do like the first 2 Styx games (the 3rd one is out soon-ish? if not now?), they are quite the "quicksave/quickload trial and error patience games" and quite deep in the eurojank spectrum. The climbing in the first one is pretty jank, and in both games the character breaks 4th wall deadpool-style pretty often, enemies are dumb as bricks but will absolutely murder you once alerted enough.

    But on the upside, it's one of those rare stealth games where murder is not penalized at all.

    That said, the games are great!

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    (video games, slang) Video games from Europe (especially Eastern Europe) with ambitious concepts but lacking in execution and sometimes exhibiting unintended glitches.

    as per Wiktionary (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Eurojank)

    I was under the assumption the Styx -devs were german, but apparently the studio is French. Either way. I also don't recall any specific glitches, but the first game has a bit stiff climbing mechanics where you can (and will) do some unintended jumps to void etc.

    Basically "AA game" instead if "AAA big budget game"

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    (the 3rd one is out soon-ish? if not now?)

    End of Feb (the 26th?), these sales seem to be to promote the launch of Part 3.

    I played the 2nd one with a friend for a few hours last night. I appreciate the humor, the music selection is above average, the movement feels good and every time we died it was due to us being dumb. No bugs (playing on Linux, with GE-Proton10-27), runs great on maximum settings.

    We were having an easy time by going on a murder spree, then we noticed that the game gives you rank medals for speed, avoiding kills and avoiding detection so we started playing to maximize the end-score. Those constraints make the puzzles a bit harder and I can see wanting to run a level multiple times in order to get it right.

    Overall, it's a fun experience, does the stealth thing competently and the graphics/music/animations/dialog is good.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    heh, yea, my approach is also full on murderhobo in Styx, but I do it so nobody notices anything if at all possible. Levels can take several hours with this method so ... uh, it's not really optimal way to play but damnit that's how I roll. Admittedly the near constant presence of the void/cliffs/etc bottomless pits makes it fairly easy to get rid of bodies.

    Never really felt the need to chase the time bonuses, just collectables etc are enough for me. Admittedly I have not finished either of the games, but played pretty darn far in both.

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  • [–] 29 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    It's true for me at least. If I like a freebie from Epic, I'm more likely to buy it on Steam also just so that I can use it easily with the Steam Deck without additional configuration.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    It's easy to use epic on steam deck? I need to look into this

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I've installed games from both Epic and GOG on my steam deck via Lutris, and after it's installed, it just takes a few clicks to have it visible in non-desktop mode. A little tedious sure, but not terrible.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

    I bought a game on steam once that I already had on epic for free. It was on sale for like $5 on steam(Hunter: Call of the Wild), and I was curious if all the shader pre-caching and optimizations steam does with the Steam Deck would have it run better with the steam version, compared to the epic games version.

    Edit: my bad you guys. YES. It does run better. The pre caching steam games have is noticably gets rid of stutter. Mildly noticeable in a slower paced game like Hunter. Very noticeable in Borderlands 3 that's higher paced.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    I've said this in the past but I think it's worth restating. I'm amazed that EGS is willing to even front the cost of these free games. Like I would expect some form of arbitrary restriction like requiring periodic actual money purchase to be eligible. They have posted income reports that state the free program just isn't working. Sure it's increasing numbers, but that isn't very helpful when your revenue is still decreasing ontop of the cost of the program. I mean it does help that its a flat cost and not a cost per install for them, but still.

    for perspective: my last purchase was void train in super early stages of the game (2021 I think?) and prior to that was satisfactory somewhere around 2018 or 19. Meanwhile I have collected a lot of decent games from the program. And I'm one of the better cases. I have /tons/ of friends who have zero intention of ever actually buying anything on the shop, they only use it as a log in, claim the weekly freebie, log out or play the freebie game. Heck, there are programs that are dedicated exclusivley to log in as you, and claim the weekly freebies so you never even have to log onto the storefront. It isn't a sustainable model.

    I feel like they would be better off forcing an annual payment history check on the platform, something stupid small like "if total paid is > 5$" or something cheap, or even like how steam does it where once you purchase something once everything unlocks. From a financial/business mindset, I don't get their intent on the current program. It only encourages people to grab games and never actually spend money on the sinkhole.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I said this when they first started the free game thing: Instead of giving games away they should subsidize their prices in certain regions to get loads of customers in poorer countries. If they built a massive community around the world the rest of us would be incentivize to participate to play with our friends around the world and we would happily spend money on the platform that made our friends happy.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    That would cause compliance issues on steam though publisher wise. They would need the title to be off steam since one of steams publisher terms is that the sale price of an item must be at least equal to the lowest price available on other platforms. Meaning that if you have a deal like described there, steam would be the higher price and it would violate their publisher terms.

    edit: looking into this it looks like it might only be for steam keys, so actually they may be in the clear here.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Okay that makes a bit of sense. I said what I said was from when they announced free games on epic the consensus was that it was anti-competitive business practice so I was trying to find a middle ground. But if steam is going to be anti competitive too I am not going to care what their competition do.

    I wonder why they can sell games for $0 tho because you go through the process of a checkout, you don't simply redeem a code or something.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    yea looking into it, the steamworks policy doesn't mention price parity outside of product keys via steam being sold on other storefronts, being said it does look like steam has submitted to the courts evidence of them communicating via email threatening studios that if they actually went through with it, that steam would just choose not to sell their game at all, this was uncovered during deposition during the Wolfire & Dark Catt’s U.S. antitrust lawsuit against Valve. They went on record admitting to the email and explaining that the steam key page was meant to be for all products as a whole. It sounds like it's a situation where on paper they have it one way, but in practice it's meant to be the other.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    This is just the PS3 vs Xbox 360 game wars but worse. Stop being loyal to corporations you imbeciles, of course a dev will say whatever makes him more money. Including appeasing the fellating steam fanboys. The game could have gone completely unnoticed if it wasn't on epic, barely any sales, and even a minor bump in visibility would have created more steam sales regardless if users knew if it was available on epic for free. Unless I see numbers I don't care what this dev says and you shouldn't either.

    But you're all rabid to hate on epic when both stores are just bum ass corporations and will circle jerk each other off on why your team is better.

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  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    But you're all rabid to hate on epic

    If I had to pick between buying a game on Steam or Epic, I would pick the one which did some good things for consumers over the one that stuck their middle finger up at us.

    There's no denying that Valve's contributions to DXVK, WINE, KDE, and Linux are a self-serving way to ensure Steam remains relevant after Microsoft locks Windows into a walled garden. Even so, the end result was an overall benefit for consumers. We would have had something like Proton eventually, but it would not have come nearly as quickly without their financial backing.

    What has Epic done? A bunch of free games that I still don't have enough time to play and would not have picked up anyways, great. That doesn't make up for the rest of their wannabe-monopoly, anticonsumer practices like making exclusivity deals to railroad people into using their store by making sure consumers are denied a choice.

    Fuck Epic, and fuck Tim Sweeney's self-aggrandizing attitude. If he actually gave a shit about anything other than his ego, he would have spent his time leading Epic Games to challenge "the Steam monopoly" by providing a better customer experience, not posting on Twitter acting like the messiah of PC gaming.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    You make some good points about Valve's bread crumbs, but my point still stands that this is an article with no other purpose than to reinforce the opinions of those who already had their minds made up about this. The dev possibly included, or inciting the opinions of those who have.

    It's a circlejerk post and article. Just because Valve sucks slightly less doesn't mean we need to treat them like god's gaming storefront. If people weren't already on the "fuck Epic" bandwagon this is a non-story.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Agreed on both points.

    If it was GOG and not EGS, the reaction would probably be very different. But, because people already hate Epic (for good reason), writing an article that appeals to schadenfreude makes for some easy ad revenue.

    People also shouldn't be idolizing corporations. They're not our friends; we're only a means to an end for them. The best case scenario for us is mutualism, and the worst case is parasitism. All it takes is a change in leadership or a change in circumstances to go from one to the other, and a constant need for growth encourages the parasitic enshittification we're well acquainted with.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    You couldn’t pay me to play a game on epic. It’s not even a boycott. They just suck and I’m not broke. I can buy my own games and I’d rather pay than put their software on my pc let alone play on their platform.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Literally it's just a storefront. If Epic offered you $100 and you didn't take it because "they suck" you're just an idiot.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I think the store and the library search sucks on EGS. You can't even tell what games you have purchased and for what platform (pc/ios/android). Best you have is the purchase history on their website and app.

    I use Heroic Launcher (on Arch btw and Bazzite for kids) and that luckily works really well for displaying games that you have bought on PC. But there's no such alternative for iOS or Android, and even Heroic doesn't show you what games there are in your library for mobile.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Eeeeehhh, I don't even have the Epic Launcher installed. I keep claiming the freebies out of the habit, but I can't remember what games I have there. Last time I checked you can't even see your library via the website.

    Fun thing: Kind of the same thing happening to me with Xbox Game Pass. Try out games, buy it on Steam later on sale

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  • [+] -27 points 9 months ago (52 children)

    Steam is a self perpetuating monopoly because people love having all of their toys in a single place. Just one more confirmation that it’s pointless to try to compete until regulators take a look at this situation.

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    GOG. If you’re a solo player, this is the place, for no other reason than their highly principled mission to do DRM free games. No, it’s not all the games, but even so. That and supporting CDProjekt appeals, to me anyway.

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  • [–] 56 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    Every other platform is simply worse. The only one who even tries to be better is GOG, of which they do a good job for DRM free, which gets sales from me.

    My question to you is: why would anybody buy something other than on those two platforms? There is not a single advantage to Epic's or Amazon's game store I can think of. They don't have good Linux support, they don't have a good review system, they don't have forums, they don't have mod delivery systems, they don't have any better sales, they don't have family sharing, they don't have in-home streaming.

    Edit: And don't get me started on the Microsoft store....

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  • [–] 24 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    About the linux support, not only its bad, they seem to actively hate it. Some games after getting bought by epic(like rocket league) lose their Linux support

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Saw this today from the guy that did the WINE development to get the Adobe creative suite installers working

    https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1qidql1/it_appears_that_i_have_rage_baited_tim_with_my/

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    ahhh damn. It was a post from the person that submitted the wine merge request for Adobe installer support. In it was a screenshot of a steamdeckhq post about his WINE patch he did and Tim Sweeney having a mocking reply to the post about Linux and Adobe users. The dev was celebrating that Tim for whatever reason got a bit triggered about people celebrating his work to get the Adobe installer working in WINE

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  • [–] 44 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Valve is a private company. Are they going around buying out competition like an end game capitalist?

    They are where they are at is because they do what they do well and people have voted with their wallets.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago* (5 children)

    They don’t have to. You don’t need to abuse your monopoly to be a monopoly (although Valve does in different way). Valve enforces same pricing on all stores a game is available on so EGS can’t compete on price despite having lower cut. In the end customers and developers lose.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    There's also the question of what happens when Gabe dies or retires. Unless he's a secret communist and has plans in place to make it into an employee coop it'll be sold by his estate to private equity.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Valve enforces same pricing on all stores a game is available on so EGS can’t compete on price

    Obvious falsehood. Did you just choose to omit relevant nuance? The post is literally about games which are free on EGS and non-free on Steam.

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  • [+] -8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    It’s the first point of agreement Valve signs with a dev publishing on Steam.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago*

    Your screenshot doesn't support your text, and from what I recall they say that:

    • if you put your game on sale cheaper elsewhere (but are selling steam keys), you need to have a similar (not even identical) sale on Steam at some point.
    • You can't undercut Steam's price and sell the freely generated CD keys that add the game to a steam account elsewhere for a lower price.

    That's it. It's actually about the CD keys, not the game itself. There's no rule about selling the game on another store, using that store.

    Found the doc I was thinking of. They actually just say "a worse deal", so it's not even about a lower price.

    https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys#3

    Your screenshot there seems to be quoting this page, in fact.

    My point is that they absolutely don't enforce pricing, that was something one dev said in a lawsuit and you'll notice they didn't get agreement from people. You're welcome to check the documentation out, or find any other source that isn't bad reporting based on a lawsuit that wasn't successful?

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  • [–] 26 points 9 months ago

    I wouldn't mind using other services if any of them were competent. Steam gives me one-click Linux support for Windows titles, massive control reconfiguration capabilities, and a full suite of the normal expected features: achievements, cloud saves, forums, etc. Name me any competitor who even comes close. They dominate because they put in the work. Everyone else wants their slice of the pie but won't bother to develop features worth using.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    Why do you think epic gives games away for free? They thought this was the main factor so they decided to build a library for you to not want to leave, but it turns out that it isn't the only reason people like steam. I have a huge library on epic now (99% free giveaways), but I still would prefer to buy a game on steam especially if they utilize the steam workshop.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Pointless to try competing? I guess we'd know if there was ever a real competitor on the field.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    There’s GOG, there’s Itch.io. What’s wrong with them?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    GOG recently got on my radar since I heard they'd be focusing more on Linux support

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Even if GOG gets Linux support it won’t make the devs come there.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I don't mind not having large games, even if it ends up being an indie fest I'd be very content with that

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago*

    Indies don’t release there either. I wrote about an observation in this comment thread - small devs are no longer releasing their games outside of Steam because they need all sales to go into one pot - if they split it between stores they rank lower in the only store that matters.

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  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah it totally has nothing to do with proton, steam input, steamvr, mods, remote play / together, family library sharing, flexible refund policies, or the multitude of other things that other stores don't do.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    The only better alternative (for me) would be a bunch of DRM free stores feeding their catalogues to an open source front-end that has everything that Steam already does.

    Like Heroic, Lutris, Playnite, etc. But way more developed features and with official vendor support and a built-in unified store that supports all catalogues in the same view, like a federated marketplace.

    That would be the only thing capable of moving me away from Steam completely.

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  • [+] 11 points 9 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (9 children)

    EGS is used as an example. They don’t charge devs until they earn $1M so you’d think games would release there at least but we now have many many Steam exclusives. It’s gotten to the point where indie games release demos on Itch.io but don’t release full games outside of Steam because they need algorithmic momentum there.

    Check out EU DMA and how it impacts gatekeepers like Valve (even if Valve somehow dodged that label, probably because their finances are private).

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  • [+] 7 points 9 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    I’ve done so in this community it repeatedly over the course of ~2 years. If you don’t want to make an effort why would I.

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  • [+] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    Enforce interoperability, lower Valve cut as abusive and punish abusive clauses in developer agreement (you can’t price your game lower than Steam on other storefronts).

    Ideally you’d treat Valve like a telecom monopoly, meaning you’d have to break it down into two companies - Valve infra (handling license ledger, storage, bandwidth) and Valve store/developer. Allow other stores to notify that user owns a game and allow access to Valve infra with third party stores. Valve infra can’t give preferential treatment to Valve store.

    If Valve is as good as everyone says they have nothing to fear, they provide better service after all. Where I live this approach killed monopolies and prices dropped quickly.

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  • [+] 3 points 9 months ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (2 children)

    It’s not leeching, Valve mostly lucked into this monopoly because of how grossly incompetent competition was at the time. Valve owners were rewarded handsomely for this already, there’s no reason for this to continue until heat death of the universe because there’s not that much value added that they provide now.

    It’s cool that they pay salaries of like 3 Linux devs and piggyback on Wine work that Codeweavers funded for the past 30 years. You’d think there’s so much more they could do with 30% cut of nearly all PC game sales however which is why they need competition.

    Details of such breakup can be ironed out but it’s important to keep in mind that this option exists and was used before successfuly.

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  • [+] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Consumers aren’t the only consideration. Even if Epic sucks in many ways they’re much more better for smaller devs because they don’t take anything until you make $1M. One would think that this would be enough for indies to publish there but they don’t want to split sales between platforms (they need all sales to happen on Steam so that they rank better there, it’s the only store that matters).

    It’s a viscous cycle where smaller competition like GOG or Itch.io have no chance in hell to compete. I’m pretty sure anyone considering competing with Steam has done this math, hence you get only competition backed by big $$$, which usually is the worst people imaginable.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I hope their Android store offers a good experience and succeeds since Play Store just sucks. But Valve pretty much made Linux gaming, if you saw what it looked like before they got involved you would understand. And they are the only big video game company that still does some good stuff in addition to the bad stuff.

    Epic burned 95% of their good will among gamers, if not all of it. They allowed play 2 earn and other crypto shit just to be contrarians, delisted and ended support for old Unreal games and are pretty much just The Fortnite Studio at this point, which itself is seen as an amalgamation of everything wrong with gaming by some, they struck exclusivity for highly anticipated games so that people have to buy it from them, stories of crunch and Tim defending and supporting every new technology gold rush including Grok producing fucking CSAM.

    It's not hard to see why people have so much animosity towards them.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I saw what it looked like. We had native ports and Wine (rebranded as Proton by Valve so that it looks like their own product).

    EGS is just one store. Devs don’t even bother releasing games outside of Steam and you can’t make the same argument against GOG or Itch.io.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    I wonder what the regulator will make steam do.

    "no, you can't have community page! Stop developing Proton and Lepton! You have to stop doing sales and deny more game from being sold in your platform and be generally shitty to your customer just so Epic Gamestore can catch up!"

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    If epic put money into bringing linux gaming decades ahead of where it was instead of hating on it I would have jumped ship even if they didn't make linux supported hardware that lives on my recliner.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Nobody cares about Linux, it has user share close to a margin of error in a poll of 1000 people. Valve employing 3 Linux devs doesn’t offset damage to consumers and devs.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    and the bulk of the users can enjoy being forced to upgrade to hardware with even more spying being the only difference just to run a shittier version of their old operating system rental cloud compute and game streaming. I'll reassess when gabe dies or if they start firing off u.s. politics level red flags but worst case I have drm free/stripped copies of every game I might play again or recommend on offline hdd and tape.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    „Gabe wouldn’t do that to me”.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

    literally just said I would reasses if he died OR things went that way

    and literally every other company is aready doing their version of 'that' to their clients but yes lets attack the ones that haven't yet then if they do I guess we can switch back to ignoring it like the rest of them

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    Aren’t you bothered by the fact that most Valve games these days rely on gambling for monetisation? Aren’t you bothered they don’t make an effort not to advertise gambling to children unless forced to like in Netherlands or Belgium?

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    that should absolutely be regulated globally and it better damn well include roblox and literally every gacha and shooter game too. Parents should really be doing the wallet voting and politician mailing there but I've seen dads quiet their kids by letting them roll gacha on the phone while waiting to pay for food and when I told my friends about the pedos on roblox situation they told me off saying I don't know what its like to have kids... When the parents are happy to feed their children to the machine what the fuck can I do about it?

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