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[–] 25 points 9 months ago

Not surprised. We are learning that we miscalculated the climate sensitivity. Alas, it doesnt arrive with a giant banner, kicking down the door but just slowly sneaks in and then refuses to leave.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    If Mother Earth doesn't kill us, the ICE agents will.

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  • [–] 24 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    ICE can't kill us all. The climate change our politicians and corporations are resolutely ignoring certainly can.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Climate change can't kill us all unless we hit some strange runaway effect that wasn't triggered when atmospheric CO2 levels were higher 500 million years ago (although the sun was 5% less bright back then). There might only be a couple million people hanging out on tropical Antarctica, but they could survive.

    Humans are hardy; our species survived the ice age and the accompanying desertification of Africa with just some sharp rocks, our species can survive a mass extinction event with all our modern science and technology.

    No, if we die out entirely, it will be fascism that does it. Shitheads that would rather burn the last remaining footholds of human survival than let the future exist outside of their control.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    a decade sooner than expected.

    ✨ FTE ✨

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  • 52 comments in c/world@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 68 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    I live in Western Wyoming. It is the middle of January and most of my yard is grass. My lawn is supposed to be under three or four feet of snow. Instead, grass. This is all fucked.

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  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago

    I live in the mountains and they aren't even snowcapped this year. Still feels like September and I can easily go outside in a t-shirt most days. Even when it does snow, which has only happened three times so far this season, it melts by the late afternoon.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Don't worry florida got some snow.

    Honestly the amount of snow the deep south gets now is alarming. During my childhood (0-18) it snowed 3 times and only 2 of those stuck. Then it began happening 2 or 3 times a decade. Now it's every year. It doesn't stick every year but it falls

    My mom remembered it snowing twice from her childhood to when I was born. My grandfather remembered maybe 4 or 5 snows his whole life.

    This is not good

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    There is currently, right now, an absurd weather formation... uh, forming, that looks like it is going to dump a serious amount of snow and freezing rain from TX/KS/OK all the way to the East Coast.

    Its gonna hit this Friday.

    Where I am?

    Another couple of days at -30F.

    Seen it a few times in the few years I've been here, but the locals say that that level of cold is pretty rare.

    Parts of northern Minnesota, around Duluth... could possibly get as cold as -60F.

    Would entirely not surprise me if Texas' power grid collapses again, Ted Cruz takes another vacation, etc.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    We got a huge downpour of rain back a week or two, flooding and everything. Today the high is like 10f. It’s crazy. And the swings are just crap to live through too. Today it’s 52, tomorrow it’s -52.

    I’m not upset about not getting it as snow cuz I hate shoveling, but it’s very upsetting to have it come down as rain in January (should have been a blizzard).

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    It has been colder than usual in the upper midwest in the great lakes regions. We got down to 33 degrees one morning in august. Then thanksgiving we got a huge storm and that snow is mostly still on the ground, arctic air masses overhead all week.

    Somehow we miss all the warming here, we get more warm snaps in the winter, but the summers have been getting cooler too, we have net zero temperature gain. But last year in the north we got way way more snow than normal, and this year we are above normal too.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago*

    I nearly died in the PNW Heatdome a few years back.

    In roughly a week, I lost 10 pounds, purely from sweating.

    In that week, I don't think it ever got under 85 degrees in my apartment. For several days it was never under 95. And thats 24/7, including nights.

    That's with mylar/space blankets reflecting heat out of the windows, and with the portable AC unit I could afford.

    Its not that common for apartments to have any AC solution in the PNW, because normally, for the past 100 years, yeah summer is hot, but not that hot, and most importantly, if it is exceptionally hot, its just for one day, then its either less hot the next day, or is even overcast and rains/drizzles a bit.

    Oh and that Heatdome also featured all of the smoke from regional wildfires just... pooling, basically, in certain areas, so I also had to ramshackle an air furnace filter and a box fan together.

    You needed a gas mask to safely be outside for more than 15-30 minutes.

    ... I don't live there any more, but apparently what's going on now is... basically every river in the state is flooding at historical levels, at the same time.

    Yeah. Climate is broken. Its only gonna get worse.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    even better indicator antartica have actual vegatation encroaching further south, at least in the subantartic islands. the 2 native flower plants(antartic hair grass and Antarctic pearlwort have spread southward due to warming temp, plus also invasive species.

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    [–] 65 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    I live in the Rockies. The mountains around me have been completely bare of snow for almost the entire winter. Like the peaks are just bare gray stone where the snow used to be year round.

    I keep hearing people saying how sad it was they couldn’t ski this year because there was never snow… we basically haven’t had any winter/cold-weather at all, and they’re upset about skiing… I’m pretty sure there are more serious things to worry about.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago* (5 children)

    The Colorado river system is completely fucked, every state reliant on that water is... basically in a mega-drought, and going to fairly rapidly desertify / dustbowlify.

    In a worst case scenario... there isn't enough water to power dams, such as the Hoover Dam.

    ... if something like that happens, well, now you've lost water and power.

    Broadly speaking, the Colorado River Compact is based around being able to allocate 15 MAF (million acre feet) of water each year.

    Between 2000 and 2019, the average actual water consumption was ~19.3 MAF, and the average actual amount of allocatable water was ~12.7 MAF.

    Thats a 'water debt' of 132 MAF, 20 years of an average 'water deficit' of 6.6 MAF.

    So, that is about 25% overconsumption of water, for two decades, compared to what was supposed to be going on, as well as the actual existing water being about 20% less than what it 'should' have been.

    So, if you assume the ... conditions don't get worse (which is probably a stupid assumption) for the river... and it evens out for the next 20 years at 13.5 MAF... well you have to pay off that water debt too, if you want to return to sustainability.

    So that means you're looking at about 7 MAF for the next 20 years, for the whole system.

    Thats roughly a 50% cut in water usage.

    For AZ, CA, CO, NV, NM, UT, WY.

    ... Trying to implement that is almost certainly politically impossible as it would basically destroy the economies of every involved area.

    So uh yeah, yeah.

    Water wars are here, this particular one is I guess more like a intra-country water civil war? I dunno.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Also, the most populated part of Utah runs on water that ends up in the Great Salt Lake which has been slowly drying up the last few decades and is close to pushing out all the toxic heavy metals it’s stored up over the centuries into the air for everyone in the valley to breathe in. All of which could’ve been avoided if they limited their agriculture industry and their suburban sprawl.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Yeah, thats a whole fun thing that is going on as well.

    Last I heard it was airborne arsenic that was the primary problem.

    So....thats just not a phrase you should ever want to read.

    I also have no idea what you could even do to meaningfully mitigate or solve the problem.

    ... Hazmat suits for being outside, and scrub down room entrances for every building?

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe that’s what it will take to fix these ridiculous legacy water rights and the whole “use it or lose it” system we have in place that actively discourages water conservation for these farms. It doesn’t help that these are also the biggest MAGA folks in these states, and thereby climate change deniers.

    How about we also slap on a big export tax on any food products being grown in this region that are being sold internationally? Add on a complete ban on foreign ownership of water rights.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago*

    How about we also slap on a big export tax on any food products being grown in this region that are being sold internationally? Add on a complete ban on foreign ownership of water rights.

    See, your problem here is that those ideas ... well...

    They make sense.

    Because they'd force people to change the way they are doing things, to be doing better things, that make more sense.

    MAGA folks are very much not into making sense, nor being told what to do.

    You'd have to trick them or scam them.

    ... maybe we could try to convince them that water is gay, and ... only Satan grows soybeans and alfalfa.

    You don't want to grow homosexual devil beans and grass, do you?

    ?????

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    excellent points. just want to help people contextualize here. roughly 3/4 of all that water you're talking about is for industrial scale agriculture. we could almost halve the water usage with restrictions on which crops can or can't be grown.

    Irrigated agriculture is responsible for 74% of direct human uses and 52% of overall water consumption. Water consumed for agriculture amounts to three times all other direct uses combined. Cattle feed crops including alfalfa and other grass hays account for 46% of all direct water consumption.

    source

    in other words, there's a fuckton of water available for human use... but not enough for humans AND cows. not enough to satiate the endless global demand for cheeseburgers and steaks. our mis management of the water supply is steering the entire southwestern US into a man made disaster with catastrophic knock on effects for global meat consumption. some folks say "cattle ranching made The West. seems fitting that cattle will be it's unmaking.

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  • [–] 126 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    Virtually every forecast assumed that humans would at least try to stop it instead of deliberately accelerating it in competition to squeeze every penny out of the planet first.

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  • [–] 81 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    I don't think the forecasts necessarily built in "trying to stop it" but they certainly didn't include "accelerating it" with dumbassery like AI.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    If we had real AGI and not just shitty chatbots, we could tell them to melt their GPUs for the good of the planet.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    An AGI would probably have some kind of drive for self-preservation. Plus, an AGI with time on its hands could come up with a more long-term, viable and more environmentally friendly solution to the climate crisis than commuting seppuku and melting a bunch of valuable hardware. Shit, you don't need to be an AGI or even a climate scientist to realize that solar and battery tech could help reduce GHG emissions.

    Of course, this is all assuming a future AGI shares our goals in any way.

    As an aside, keep in mind that shitty chatbots may be a stepping stone to AGI.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago*

    It not really a question of “how?” Anymore. We know how to get most of the way there. We already developed technology to get at least halfway. We just need to roll it out, the “easy” part.

    • We know how to decarbonize at least 95% power generation
    • we know how to make significant efficiency/weatherization gains
    • we know how to electrify residential
    • we know how to decarbonize most of transportation
    • we have at least possibilities for aviation, shipping, industry, and at least some plastics

    Of course we don’t yet have 100% of the answer, but it’s criminal how much of the answer is already in our hands and we refuse to use it, or keep dragging our feet

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  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    No, they did include "trying to stop it". For example the ICC projections assume that, towards the end of the century, we start becoming carbon-negative by figuring out effective carbon capture.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    For example the ICC projections assume that, towards the end of the century, we start becoming carbon-negative by figuring out effective carbon capture.

    With magic fairy dust! How in the world did they base their projections on technology that didn't exist and wasn't even on the horizon?

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    Bro the technology isn't the limitation, it's politics and the will of massive nations that prioritize money. They were right, we have the technology we need to correct it, but there is no magic button to fix it instantly

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  • [–] 37 points 9 months ago

    That's not a surprise. Experts always gave the most conservative assessment. They do that because they didn't want to look like they are alarmists and lose credibility. So everybody was conservative all the time, always calculating with the optimistic numbers and ignoring all possible feedback loops.

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  • [–] 29 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The predictions were always the most conservative estimates. They were trying to avoid panic. The most likely scenario was that this would all start and hit hard within our lifetimes.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    Exactly right. The feedback loops aren't even accounted for in the results we are given. Namely the methane and co2 from the permafrost. There is enough just in that feedback in just the siberian permafrost to cause runaway warming, 2x the carbon as currently in the atmosphere, freed by bacteria working in above freezing temperatures. The methane is massive idk the estimates on that, but to date methane is estimated to be about 30% of warming. Swamps basically, huge methane sinks that have been stoppered up for thousands of years brewing those hyrdocarbons underground.

    And the arctic is warming at like 6x the rest of the world last I heard.

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  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    There was never any question, the powerful have shouted down any more honest forecasts. Even the most pessimistic ones don't take into account the biggest feedbacks, like methane and co2 from the permafrost getting released.

    To be clear, there is no predicting it, there are interconnected variables that we don't have numbers for, so it's impossible to accurately predict anything no matter how much computing power they devote to it.

    What has been undeniably true in reality where we ignore the ivy league experts lying to us to protect their obscene wealth, is it will happen quicker than the models we are shown predict.

    But worry not, we won't have to worry about it too much because the instability will give the worst people the ability to take over our societies and throw us into a dark ages first.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    Mostly correct. One note: the experts have been saying it's worse than the IPCC (or any government) says it is since the 90s. The experts, in universities and legit research institutions all around the world, have long known this is going to be a shit show, and they have already accepted that we did not do what was needed to avoid impacts on the world that have a good chance to end human civilisation and kill billions of people. It's not a slam dunk, btw, there are still ways to get away with, say, only hundreds of millions dead from starvation, war, disease, heatstroke, etc.

    But no expert who has been paying attention thinks we're getting out of this without at least that. I know a few of them, they've actually done their grieving already because they know we didn't stop it when we could, and they know what's coming.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago*

    The "best" part is that none of these end up taking into account the fact we'll cook ourselves/the planet from excess heat waste long before climate change can finish the job

    And this was before ai started to speed up the job

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    When I was getting my bio degree in the late 90's, early 00's we learned a lot of worst case scenario models for climate change, many of which seem to be coming to pass. Those scenarios were for ~2080 - 2100.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Could you share some examples please?

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    There's the accelerated bleaching of coral reefs. The increasing rate of back beach erosion especially on the west coast of the US (now USGIS estiames say the Pacific Northwest won't have any natural sand beaches left by 2100). The rapid weakening of the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation and the Jet Stream. Mass-crab migrations started a couple years ago due to warming ocean temps. The Brazilian Rain Forest is probably past the point of no return. The Great Salt Lake might not make it 2040 (instead of 2100 - 2150) without another shift in weather patterns. Insect armageddon has happened way faster than anyone thought. And the massive ramp up in seasonal forest fires in North America has gotten bad far faster than expected.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Insect armageddon has happened way faster than anyone thought

    I remember as a kid (I'm currently in my late 40s) that the world was full of bugs. Many, many tipes of mosquitos, beetles, praying mantis, ladybugs, ants, cicadas. You rode in a car at night and the windshield would be splattered by bugs every 30s. Nowadays I barely see any around.

    EDIT: the exception seems to be cockroaches. Those never went away.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Well the “good news” is the Lone Star Tick is expanding its territory. If we keep treating our environment like shit, it may just bring down the hammer on beef and dairy

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  • [–] 50 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I’m feeling pretty smug about opting to not have kids between this and the fascism— though I admit I didn’t see the fascism coming when I got my vasectomy.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    Half of my country is on fire rn

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago

    This is partly because the models have NEVER matched the data.

    yt's "Just Have A Think" seems a good channel, for accurate information on global warming.. ( FAR better than MSM )

    but there's a simple, blunt principle which has always been true, in ClimatePunctuations:

    The SPEED of change goes from 0 up to maximum-speed-of-change, then back down to 0, at the new ClimateEquilibrium.

    So, you get a BELL-curve, for the speed of change.

    That's predictable.

    Where are we on that curve??

    In the still-accelerating part.

    ALL the forecasts seem to ignore that, & intentionally-leave-out huge pieces..

    Interior Antarctica is heating at 2x the speed predicted by the models, I read in 2025 or 2024.

    They didn't include the freshwater from Greenland's melting until 2023 or something??

    The "Cold Blob" visible from space had no explanation until then??

    ( what was icemelt supposed to do, except be

    1. cold
    2. less salty/dense, & so remaining on the top, &
    3. spreading out, monkeying the entire region's ecology & evaporation-cycle-speed? )

    I've read that it isn't that the models are wrong, rather, it is that the data isn't agreeing with them.

    Pseudoscientific bunk ( one of that yt-channel's videos mentioned a guy with ICC authority maintained the models are trustworthy in spite of the evidence contradicting them.. )

    No, this is systemic intentional-ignorance, in ALL dimensions: government, "science"-institution, politics, economy, EVERYthing.


    No matter: we're on-track for something like +9C, & that means that the US is going to have to rampage Canada, in order to have any place to live, right?

    & same with India's population needing a new home, same with Saudi Arabia's, same with northern Africa's..

    Basically, a region above, & a region below, the entire Equator may end up being uninhabitable, or the entire tropics, even.

    As a former NASA Chief Scientist noted: Venus's climate IS a possible outcome.

    The climate-problems we've got now, are NOTHING, compared with what they're going to be in another decade.

    & again, the following decade..

    .. until we reach the maximum-speed-of-change, & begin slowing-down the speed-of-change.

    Since we won't allow slowing-down to begin, ..

    .. then human viability may be off the table.

    Whole-species DarwinAward, due to our political-motivation, instead of objectivity+practicality.

    Earned, though: Universe IS honest, that way..

    _ /\ _

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  • [+] -39 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Sure it is as much here as "acid rain" or ozone layer has right? Fuck off.

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  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    You mean the ozone hole that spurred quick international collaboration and resulted in effective regulations which banned the harmful compounds wherever possible, leading to a slow yet steady recovery?

    Wonder what's the difference compared to climate change. Oh well, if we keep increasing emissions surely things will get better!

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Same for acid rain btw. It is a real thing and causes real issues but after figuring that out regulations have reduced sulfur dioxide emissions.

    It's about as acidic as a cup of coffee so it won't melt your face off which I guess some people expected. In general I think the real effects we feel today just don't sound very threatening to people. Take the cocoa price exploding at the end of the last year for example. That was due to increasingly bad harvests that are getting more frequent with climate change. For western people it means chocolate gets very expensive and less real cocoa but more corn syrup ends up in products. For farmers in South America it means their livelihood is destroyed.

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago*

    I love how you chose to ridicule acidic rain and ozone layer as both of those were real things thay spur international action and new legistation that worked.

    I dont know if you are a moron or a child so i decide to treat you as a child. When your papa or mama closes the blinds the world does not disappear behind the window.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    Both of those were real things we fixed by curtailing the pollution most causing them, like coal burning for the acid rain, and all that other ozone depletion shit.

    And we still have all the same stuff. It just shows we can retool and corporations taking a one time hit of having to retool is not cause to systematically poison the earth to keep doing things the more damaging ways.

    And fuck those corporations anyway. They know what they are doing.

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  • 11 comments in c/news@beehaw.org view that post
    [–] 15 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I'm always reminded of the scene in The newsroom, where they have the guy from the epa who essentially says it's already too late to save us from climate oblivion. They wanted him to calm the message and played down the doom.

    That was from 2012.

    Nothing has changed at all. Humans are rubbish at dealing with problems that are more than a year or so down the road.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    No shit. I'm not trying to be a dick, but, like, we all see this.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Except for the fuckwits who deny it is real!

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    So much so that Republicans are at this stage already:

    • That didn't happen.
    • And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
    • And if it was, that's not a big deal.
    • And if it is, that's not my fault.
    • And if it was, I didn't mean it.
    • And if I did, you deserved it.

    We'll get to "that's not my fault" sooner than you think.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Don't worry I'm sure it will fix itself if we continue to do absolutely nothing!

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah except we're also taking most other species with us

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Eh, the anthropocene extinction event will be like the sixth big one, something periodically wiping out a ton of species and life restructuring itself is kinda just natural at this point. As the saying goes, life will find a way. It'll look different, but just like the previous five times, it'll do just fine.

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  • 3 comments in c/climate_lm@slrpnk.net view that post
    [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] [S] 2 points 9 months ago
    1 comment in c/collapse@lemmy.zip view that post
    [–] 0 points 9 months ago*

    Again? Every few months, like clockwork, this is said. "The end is nigh" is now a trope. Reminds me of an old George Carlin line about people holding signs that say "Save the Planet". "The planet will be okay. You'll all be dead though, but don't worry about the planet. It'll do just fine". (Paraphrasing).

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  • 1 comment in c/science@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    what's the news?

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