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[–] 1 point 1 year ago

Ive never heard a windows user say bloat.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I got an oldish mid range Asus gaming laptop the TUF Dash f15, what's a good distro for this? something that's as close as windows in perfomance as windows 10 is

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  • [–] 76 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    I never understand this mindset because a person who is technically skilled like this is exactly the kind of person who wouldn’t struggle with Linux.

    They’re already the kind of person who would be an excellent Linux user. I can only imagine that, for whatever reason, they’ve grown emotionally attached and are simply too stubborn to consider anything else.

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  • [–] 68 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    My favorite is the pcmr type that says Linux is to hard, but their comment history recommends registry edits to keep edge from becoming the default browser or something stupid.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    I'm using Linux professionally since ~15 years and my private PCs are on Linux since ~5 years.

    Registry hacks are still much, much easier than what you sometimes have to do on Linux.

    The main reason is variability. There are at most 2-3 different versions of Windows in support at a time, with about a billion users between these 2-3 versions. That means, you will easily find a detailed fix for your problem that will work just fine. You can blindly paste it into the registry, and it will do what you expect.

    Linux on the other hand has 2-5 supported versions per distro, and each distro tends to have between a handful and a dozen flavours, so the chance of some random guide on the internet actually applying to your setup is much, much lower. If you use Ubuntu 24.04, chances are quite high to find something, but even with Fedora you are often stuck having to translate solutions to your distro. Sometimes it's as simple as searching through your package manager to figure out how that package is named for your distro, but at other times it means you have to compile stuff from scratch, or the solution might look like it would apply to your setup but it just doesn't work.

    The registry is a nice centralized place with one set of rules how it works and how you interact with it.

    Linux on the other hand has thousands of config files strewn over hundreds of directories, written in dozens of config file languages, and some configs aren't actually even done via config files (or shouldn't be done via them) but instead use random config tools instead.

    Registry is easy mode.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I didn't know I'm already a computer pro by following a couple of idiot-proof steps I found by googling.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Unironically, yes. That’s not nearly as common sense as you may think. There’s no such thing as idiot-proof steps. To some you may very well be a pro from that alone.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I never said editing registry files is "common sense", but in the grand scheme of things it's very simple and, yes, quite idiot-proof (go here and here, create file this and that, set value to 1). That may count as pro to some but I'm pretty sure it's not enough to actually work with Linux (which one of my family members uses so I see it in practice).

    Besides, considering this comment

    Most of those registry keys are not documented, and it’s very hard to be completely sure about what you are touching.

    Maybe it's precisely the fact that I'm brazenly tinkering with registry files that renders me not-as-pro as some might think.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    There is no such thing as idiot-proof steps to tamper the registry. Most of those registry keys are not documented, and it's very hard to be completely sure about what you are touching.

    If you need a debloated experience, install LTSC.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Because nobody actually spends 2 weeks debloating and using Linux desktop isn't easier. This community exaggerates the difficulty of windows while minimizing Linus desktop issues.

    This meme is basically a late night infomercial.

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  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Tossing out SMB as if normal people use that shit 🀣. You folks just don't get it. Most people don't even want to deal with installing Plex from a double click. They open the Web browser and that's 85% of the usage.

    I build HA services in AWS all day. I understand how peaceful Linux is. You are missing the point entirely.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You mean the SMB protocol from 1980?

    Let me guess, you were using SMBv1 instead of SMBv2 or v3? Which are both enabled by default on Windows 11.

    Geez, almost like older protocols require better security.

    I though you guys hated Windows because it was so insecure?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    You're right, I borked my Windows install debloating it and gave up after 1 week only

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It'd be nice if public schools used Linux for coursework instead of Windows. But it seems they settled with chromebooks, so now kids are even worse off.

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  • [+] 20 points 1 year ago* (1 child)
  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    There’s known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns. The first requires a lot less brainpower than the last.

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  • [–] 69 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    Guys, I'm a Linux user, too, but can we stop having these fake arguments, please?

    Many such cases

    I never met anyone in real life who said the stuff shown in this meme. The handful of comments here are few and far between.

    Spent two weeks debloating

    The folks who care enough to debloat are either already on Linux or would spend maybe 1-2h to make a few fixes, before they get something they are okay with.

    Just install Linux

    For those who stick with Windows, it's often more than "just switching". They may need certain software, they may not be tech-savvy, they may be insecure about whether they could handle the occasional hiccup on a system that is completely new to them. All valid reasons for hesitation, and "just switch" is about as helpful as "just cheer up".

    Because learning Linux would take time.

    I've used Linux for 15 years now, and I'm still constantly learning new things. Linux is so much more usable now than it ever was, and I also think more people should switch. But suggesting that you "learn Linux" in two weeks' time is just silly and dishonest IMO.

    I wish we as a community could stop with this sense of superiority and actually acknowledge people's humane struggles to help them make the move.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I wish we as a community could stop with this sense of superiority

    Not possible in a Linux community. They have only three jokes:

    • Fuck windows

    • I'm so smart for using the superior software stack (and everybody is an idiot for not switching)

    • and my personal favorite: constantly trying to trick people into using FOSS software by telling everybody they're as good even in cases where they're clearly not (bro please use GIMP it's actually really good bro as soon as you understand its archaic 1998 user interface it's just as good as photoshop bro please)

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    and my personal favorite: constantly trying to trick people into using FOSS software by telling everybody they’re as good even in cases where they’re clearly not (bro please use GIMP it’s actually really good bro as soon as you understand its archaic 1998 user interface it’s just as good as photoshop bro please)

    This. So this.

    But coming from a position of nativity, it's even almost understandable. For someone with a software development background, Linux is easily on-par with Windows and for many stacks even a lot better. There are a few cool pieces of software that don't exist under Linux (e.g. Sourcetree) but there are decent replacements that are maybe a little bit less convenient.

    So if you are a software developer and a very light user of stuff like Office, graphics/audio/video editing and similar stuff, you might actually believe that the FOSS alternatives in these areas are also decently good enough.

    I mean, for me GIMP and LibreOffice are totally good enough, because I do next to nothing with these tools, and for the one children's birthday party per year that I make, GIMP and LibreOffice are totally enough.

    The actual hubris here is to think that my noob-level experience with these tools allows me to judge whether these tools are good enough for professional use.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    I hear you. I have 3 machines: my main rig, a light laptop and a server. The main rig is on Windows 10 LTSC and the server is on Linux (goes without saying).

    When I bought the laptop I decided to use it only with Linux as a way to squeeze it's resources but also as a way to figure it how realistic it would be to use Linux exclusively. After starting on Mint and hopping to Arch I ended up on Debian and I'm quite satisfied with it. But I also realized it would never work on my main rig. Lots of stuff and software would just not work the same way. Would it be usable, yes. But it would be mostly workarounds instead of the perfect setup I have built.

    Linux will definitely get there. It's improving fast. But telling people that don't know better to just switch only to find out half of what they did will now have to be done with workarounds and hassles is dishonest and does not help Linux at all. When Linux is perfect those people will already be burned and resist it needlessly.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I spent 1-2 hours debloating Windows and it turns out Windows update doesn't work unless you turn back on the Windows firewall service.

    I forgot how I disabled it in the first place, so I gave up and installed Linux

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Why the hell would you even want to disable the firewall?

    Do you like insecure devices? Do you also never update? Are you also still on Windows XP or something?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Why the hell would you even want to disable the firewall?

    I'm behind a firewall on my router, why the hell do I want to enable it?

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago

    To be fair power users tend to be terrible with social skills. But you are right that this is essentially just linux users bragging that they learned something difficult. Power users also tend to be awful teachers so that might be part of the frustration on both sides.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Learning Linux is nothing. Most people will never need anything outside of the GUI. There are distros that are very close to Windows in the GUI.

    Oh well. Same people think switching to a Mac will take effort.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Thing is the people that never needed Windows, also didn't really need a PC...

    Gamers seem to be an exception, and while WINE/Proton are good, they're not infallible. I can't even get WINE running unless it's running as root, which I don't really want to do, and it took a lot of faff to get it to even do that. Wasn't even anything complex, just a basic Win32 app I'd done as a test.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    while WINE/Proton are good, they’re not infallible.

    Just finished the latest trendy AAA game (Clair Obscur) thanks to Proton and Steam... 45hrs of (amazing) gaming and I didn't tinker with a single option.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I've installed Fedora workstation the other week and it came with some apps like NPP that ran in wine by default for those that are transitioning away from Windows.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah, it would be nice if Ubuntu just ran it out of the box as well.

    So many things are great and just work and honestly just surprise you with how painless they are, and then you hit the snags, and then you're in a world of trying to run things gathered from various sources, only to find that doesn't work in your distro, only worked in 2016, or requires a package that isn't obviously named from the command you're trying to run.

    I'm still not sold on snaps either. I finally got Firefox to see my integrated N150 "GPU", but I've no idea how to make it use it for video decoding. I've no idea if the Snap version even supports that.

    I'm surprised at how clunky it gets when at 100% CPU as well. Even the mouse lags. Maybe there's a way to save a little bit of resources for user tasks, but I've no idea what that would be.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago

    Sunk
    Cost
    Fallacy

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    I walked this path at first, too. For me, it was more like my stubborn battle with Microsoft than not wanting to learn Linux (I had already learned Debian some time ago).

    I've flip flopped back and forth, but after the recent bs with screenshot and OS-side ads (for a PAID software, mind you) I haven't even given Windows a second glance anymore.

    If you've got the knowledge to truly debloat Windows, you have the knowledge to set up Linux.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Microsoft's incompetence is the best thing to happen to Linux in recent years.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    windows debloating brought me more issues than using Linux, if windows is truly that much of an ass then you might as well have it as an option in a dual boos setup where you use it only when necessary (preferably non-debloated so it doesn't fuck itself when you need it)

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I used to have a Linux/Win 11 dual boot.

    After about 6 months I stopped using Windows altogether. After about a year I just wiped the drive and went 100% Linux because Windows becomes a liability when it does BIOS updates you don't want or need to ensure that it's the only OS on the machine.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Linux takes a long time to learn and is often quirky and strange in unexpected ways- life long Windows users already know how horrible Windows is and its quirky strange behaviors.

    We stick with what we know. Unlearning behaviors is doubly hard when replacing them with something better.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    There is such a massive amount to unlearn. I've dabbled with Linux several times and everytime i keep running into the same issues: literally everything is different, and I have to Google literally every step of every task I want to do, there are at least 14 ways of achieving every task, I don't understand what the differences are nor any implications of choosing are completely opaque to me. if it doesnt work I have no grounding to understand what went wrong or how to articulate my problem when trying to find help.

    Im not unsavy, i can program, i understand how to use a command line, I managed to set up a raspberry pi at work that boots into Firefox in kiosk mode to display a Google sheet of daily tasks. I can even remote into it if I need to do things.

    Except now Firefox gives a notification that the version installed is no longer supported, and when I click update I get a rather obtuse message saying that update isn't available for this flavour of Firefox on this flavour of Linux, googling the message sent me down a confusing network of rabbit holes that just got less and less understandable to the point that once the thing stops working ill have to just nuke the whole thing and start from scratch because that will be easier in the long run.

    So no, I don't feel like having this sort of problem on my main desktop at home thanks.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Debloating windows is not a one-time adventure, it's what you're subscribing to do every now and then.

    source: am recovering windoholic.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    OneNote re-installing and re-adding itself to my startup after I absolutely turned it into swiss cheese was my final nail in the coffin.

    Windows now lives in an image file that I can boot into using Linux as a thin client to start up a Windows VM for the occasional time I need to do some heavy Excel work. Absolute trashware.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Fun coincidence, when I was about to write a supporting comment to this thread, my Fedora 42 running on X1 Carbon hard froze without any apparent reason and I had to hard reboot it.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Usually that is a oom situation in my experience, check out earlyoom

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Possible, I guess, although I have 32GB RAM + 8GB swap and I wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary at the time.

    Both the hardware and software (fedora 42 running cosmic desktop) are kinda cutting edge, so I think an honest crashing bug is more likely.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (30 children)

    Actually, stop telling people to "learn" linux. Linux is either supposed to be easily navigable without the Command Line, or it's not the right thing for most people.

    Either dumb it down, or don't expect people to learn it.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Depends what you want to do. I have installed Linux for some people and they were perfectly happy with it and never touched the command line. While for me barely a day goes by using Linux that I don't touch the command line for something.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    You're 100% right.

    Linux Mint is not hard to learn at all, it's almost identical to windows.

    The problem is the random ass shit you have to debug that the average user will not do and conclude Linux sucks.

    IE if you have an Nvidia card, which shit loads of people do, you will struggle with bullshit just having two monitors...

    If you have Logitech devices, which shit load of people do, you won't have drivers and you'll have to fuck around dealing with shit.

    In addition to other quirky shit that happens on Linux some not really Linux fault and some just is.

    That said one of the good things about chat gtp / ai is that they are actually really helpful at debugging Linux.

    So yea... Linux isn't just plug and play, the way windows is. Windows steals your data and has shit loads of bloat but just like cellphones the average person doesn't give a shit nor does he understand how / why windows is awful.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I don't get what you should "learn"

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Learning the difference between all the different distros to find the one that fits your needs for starters.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)
    • find one that fits your needs
    • learning the difference between all distros

    Do I need to spell the error here?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I'll do it for you:

    You can't find something that fits your needs when you have no knowledge over what exists in the first place.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Wrong. You can't possibly find what fits your needs until you know your needs

    Edit: also, you are going to start with learning the differences between all cars when you need one. That's a sure way to get a good deal(sarcasm)

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Actually, stop telling people to "deal with" Windows (okay, this one is pretty weak). Windows is either supposed to be easily navigable without going through a dozen of buttons-tabs-subwindows, ot it's not the right thing for most people

    Either dumb it down, or don't expect people to use it

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (16 children)

    This.

    When switching to Android/iOS/ChromeOS/... people also aren't expected to "learn" that OS.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (15 children)

    Of course! I'll just magically re-learn keyboard usage on Mac and how its file system is structured, all automatically on purchase, right?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (14 children)

    Unless you are a power usage, the file system structure doesn't matter. You save your stuff into your user folder, done. If you need to install something, let the OS do it for you.

    And "option" is just another word for "alt". Memorizing the three keyboard shortcuts normal people use (copy, cut, paste) is a wildly different level of "learning" than learning concepts like what a repository is and having to configure kernel parameters to get sleep mode to work reliably.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (13 children)

    oh, do we have something to disagree on. First things first: many "fucks" ahead

    • that sleep mode that I rigorously disable the fuck off every time I re/install a system, right?

    • file system, even without power usage: I install a notepad-like app on Android (think Sublime), create a file with notes on some topic, and want to send it via email to someone. Oops, where the fuck did that file go?

    • keyboard is something I use daily, so now three (or more?) layers instead of two can be irritating. fair point would be that I never tried a Mac, so can't speak specifically about this case, but all those Ctrl+Alt+fuck-how-many-more-letters? shortcuts in some apps do drive me nuts (that extends to web apps too)

    • let's add to this pile: fucking Android settings. Even with me being a software dev, I usually just go to Settings and use text search to find whatever setting I need at the moment, because it never is anywhere I look for it

    "people also aren’t expected to learn that OS" my ass. people are just expected to put up with whatever bullshit these OSes come with. Works for some, does not work for others - but do you really want to be among fools glorifying this attitude?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (12 children)

    file system, even without power usage: I install a notepad-like app on Android (think Sublime), create a file with notes on some topic, and want to send it via email to someone. Oops, where the fuck did that file go?

    You are doing this like a power user. The correct way is to use the share button in your notepad app. No need to mess with files.

    keyboard is something I use daily, so now three (or more?) layers instead of two can be irritating. fair point would be that I never tried a Mac, so can’t speak specifically about this case, but all those Ctrl+Alt+fuck-how-many-more-letters? shortcuts in some apps do drive me nuts (that extends to web apps too)

    Again, power user. Most people don't use keyboard shortcuts at all, apart from maybe copy/paste, but even there I mostly see people right clicking and selecting copy or paste.

    let’s add to this pile: fucking Android settings. Even with me being a software dev, I usually just go to Settings and use text search to find whatever setting I need at the moment, because it never is anywhere I look for it

    Again, power user. The search is exactly what you are supposed to use. The directory structure is mostly there for power users who aren't searching for one single setting but want to go through each setting of a category to potentially modify every single setting possible in regards to one topic.

    What you are doing is taking your pre-learned ways from one OS (probably Windows or Linux) and trying to use another OS as if it was that first one, while ignoring the much more intuitive ways to handle that new OS.

    Edit: That's also kinda understandable. If you are a power user, you can't be not a power user, and of course you want to apply the skills you learned for a different OS, even if they don't exactly work for the new OS. That's natural, but it's not a failing of the new OS.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (11 children)

    The correct way is to use the share button in your notepad app

    No, the share button never shows anything useful to me, while also showing a lot of crap like three identical sharing icons for Instagram. What the fuck is the difference, I care not - just don't use the feature at all

    Again, power user. Most people don’t use keyboard shortcuts at all...

    First: and I never see people copy-pasting by mouse. So now then, power users must suffer, is that it? Second: so, anything more complicated than "scroll and watch" is now power usage? Niice. So now remind me, how Linux is such a monstrous hard-to-learn beast in this case?

    Again, power user. The search is exactly what you are supposed to use. The directory structure

    Flash news: directory structure and settings UI are different things. Also, directories are for power users, so portable software (as in copy-this-directory-to-your-computer-and-run-this file) is for power users? Wow, I've been power user since Windows 98! So... do I need to suffer or is Linux such a complicated beast?

    What you are doing is taking your pre-learned ways from one OS (probably Windows or Linux) and trying to use another OS as if it was that first one, while ignoring the much more intuitive ways to handle that new OS.

    Exactly the point. Original poster (edit: another commenter, this is just one of the threads) just takes his learned ways, then looks at Linux where they don't work, and declares Linux is too hard because it needs to be learned. What a surprise, right?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I never see people copy-pasting by mouse.

    I've seen plenty of user right click > select copy, go to a different program and do right click > select paste.

    Hell, even I do that when the keyboard is laying too far away or button combos aren't getting through the remote connection.

    Maybe try talking with regular users once in a while.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    That guy is so far up his own rear, he can't even fathom that someone would be using a device in a different way than he is.

    To be fair, his statement "I never see people copy-pasting by mouse" might be correct, but he probably could have left out the second half of the statement and it would still be correct.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    You don't really get it.

    You learned one platform to power user level, and now you think every other platform needs to be exactly identical or it is BAD BAD BAD.

    Non-power-users never get so stuck in the dirt that they can't even find their way out. You press the share button and entirely give up because there's "too many icons" for you, and instead you go digging through the file system, because on Windows 95 that's what you'd do.

    It's the same thing for all your complaints.

    Exactly the point. Original poster (edit: another commenter, this is just one of the threads) just takes his learned ways, then looks at Linux where they don’t work, and declares Linux is too hard because it needs to be learned. What a surprise, right?

    And here is where you are really wrong: Looking through a list of apps in the share menu to find the correct one is not comparable at all with having to read Arch Wiki articles to just get basic functionality like sleep/hibernate or GPU drivers working.

    Or to put it differently: How much time does an average Android user spend with getting the GPU of their phone working?

    Your whole argument is nothing but a tantrum.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Lol. No, you don't really get the very thing you pose to be teaching:

    When switching to Android/iOS/ChromeOS/… people also aren’t expected to β€œlearn” that OS.

    Same way they aren't expected to learn Linux, same way any switch requires finding out how things are done and what works for you. I have no problem navigating yet another environment, and your stance is just bullshit pretense that switching to Linux is somehow more problematic than switching to anything else

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    I will repeat my argument:

    How much time does an average Android user spend troubleshooting their GPU driver?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    And I will not answer, because have no wish to listen to your tantrums

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    No, but because answering this question would prove that learning a keyboard shortcut is not the same as learning how to use CLI, config files and debugging.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Boo-hoo, you dealt with something on Linux. Cry me a river

    Well, actually no. I have more interesting things to do

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