My favorite part is where they continue to argue with my banned ass, knowing full well I can't respond. The only way to win for them, I suppose.

Edit: Looks like there was some confusion regarding cross-posting in the original link so I'll just put the Modlog link here that displays the removed comment and ban, with the thread itself linked here. I'd rather add than change for the sake of the post's integrity and preventing confusion.

all 34 comments

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[–] 19 points 9 months ago (2 children)

YDI.

It’s fairly clear from the sidebar that the community positions itself against ML/grad.

The moderator is well known for being hostile to “tankies”. At the same time .ml itself has banned Deceptichum from communities they’ve never engaged with based purely on their ideological values so it feels hypocritical to complain about them doing the same unless you also disagree with .ml's moderation.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I got banned from a dozen out so communities cause I had the gall to claim Hasan did actually shock his dog.

    What's funny is they cite "serial down voter".

    My siblings in baahl, I never even knew those communities existed, and votes are public, and I very rarely down vote anything. Like it really is 50:1 ratio.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    China is persecuting the Uyghurs, they are forcing them into harsh programs to strip them of their non-Chinese cultural aspects. Some academics see this as a type of genocide, as they are effectively erasing a culture/ethnicity. Most feel there has to be a physical displacement, or mass killings in an attempt to destroy their people, to truly qualify for this label. I am on the side of the latter. I can understand the former's argument, but I think cultural erasure, rather than physical displacement/mass killing, should be a separate atrocity. Looking at what OP has been saying, it seems they believe this too.

    Only thing I really see on leftist spaces that bothers me, in this arena, is the people who will argue as I do about the Uyghurs, but consider the residential schools of North America a genocide. The natives went through a real genocide, cultural erasure was a clear step back in depravity. An atrocity none-the-less, just not THE atrocity.

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    To your point, I do believe cultural erasure is monstrous, but also does pale in comparison to ethnic cleansing. I don't know enough off the top of my head to say anything about residential schools so I'll absent myself from that one for now.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago* (10 children)

    I'm in Canada, my grandmother was Mi'kmaq, and I agree with the post above.

    In Canada, indigenous children were taken from their parents to be given a "proper" education in residential schools, usually against the wishes of the family. Some parents never saw their children again, who where forced to speak english (and/or french,) and stripped of any indigenous cultural practices in favor of modern Christianity. They were even given Christian names. Many kids were tortured, sometimes to death.

    I'm just scratching ther surface here as we're still uncovering new atrocities if you follow Canadian news. APTN and Indigenews occasionally write about it and the other bullshit indigenous peoples have survived.

    But I agree, that was/is a cultural erasure and not a genocide. You could make comparisons to genocides, including other shit that was done to the OG people here, it's just a different degree of bad.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (6 children)

    Transferring children is literally one of the definitions for genocide.

    What you have described is genocide. Weasel words like cultural erasure should not be used to refer to the destruction of an ethnic group.

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I didn't see that definition on the list. You may mean that's an aspect of genocide.

    Let's not downplay cultural erasure.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Article II on the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide

    (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

    https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf

    Let's not downplay genocide.

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  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    "In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"

    From the UN articles on genocide. I don't agree with that definition because "in part" is too broad and difficult to prove.

    Edit: And because those acts need to be taken with intent to destroy a people. The residential school system was undertaken to erase a cultural identity to integrate indigenous children before they became "too native." The primary intent was never to kill them off.

    The term “genocide” has entered global imagination as the “crime of crimes.” Through the years since its creation by Polish scholar Raphael Lemkin in the 1940s, the concept of genocide has undergone considerable change. It is now conceived as an extremely rare and difficult to prove crime; a “once in a generation” crime moulded in the image of the Nazi Holocaust. Protecting the exceptionality of genocide, we are told, is important. Not everything can (or should) be a genocide, because, “if everything is genocide, nothing is genocide.”

    But splitting hairs over the definition of something so broad and contentious is missing the point. I fight for restorative justice and believe, like you, these acts were/are detestable. Whether we agree on the definition of a word is moot.

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  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    The children forced to go to these schools largely were returned to the region they came from, when their residence was ended. The schools also tended to operate in the region of the people they put through the system. The Trail of Tears, however, is the kind of thing where displacement is considered to be a genocide, these things are both horrible, but they are not the same.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    The House of Commons has literally stated it is a genocide, based on the findings of the 2015 Truth and Reconciliation Council. The TRC was chaired by Murray Sinclair a member of the Ojibwe Nation, while Willie Littlechild a Cree Chief and Grand Chief of the Confederacy of Treaty Six First Nations acted as commissioner.

    On 27 October 2022, the House of Commons unanimously agreed that the government must “recognize what happened in Canada’s Indian residential schools as genocide

    https://www.ourcommons.ca/documentviewer/en/44-1/INAN/report-13/page-42

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  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago*

    Cultural genocide is not recognized as a genocide internationally, or within the ICJ. So there is no consensus on cultural erasure, as genocide, where as there is in fact one with the others. Some countries, and ngos, considered what China is doing as genocide too, most don't. This also stands with world wide standards for any type of cultural erasure. Similar systems in other countries of the west do not agree with Canada's ruling.

    So, like I said, there are academics that argue for it, and I understand their reasoning, but there are plenty who classify it differently, and I agree with their reasoning.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    A friend of mine, back in my school days, is a native american guy. His name is Eagle Boy, and when he started school where I was the teacher straight asked him what his "real" name was, and when he said that his legal name is Eagle Boy, she said "No, your christian name". He also got shit for his hair, and it was a constant point of contention vs their dress code. They knew this type of discrimination was illegal, they just didn't give a shit, and there was very little chance they would suffer any consequences for it.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Eagle Boy is a fucking awesome name. I hope he never gave in despite that horse shit.

    I saw a lot of the same stuff in school, it's ridiculous when the bullying comes from the teachers... and a life lesson.

    Loved the Chinese kid named Quang (pronounced Wang) who refused to change his name for anyone and owned it. I hope he's doing well.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago*

    Right?! That name goes fucking hard. These days he generally goes by E.B. His older brother is named Sunbear, though he goes by his middle name, which is more common. The youngest got European common names.

    They did not put up with this shit. The school was a Kafka-esque nightmare, and many other people had major problems. I was almost in a lawsuit with them, but they settled for covering my tuition to go to another school, an awesome school at that.

    Talking to him, apparently there is (or was, at the time) some level of controversy within their tribe over this type of naming. I guess there is a portion of the population that thinks they are being stereotypical, and it hurts the native image in some way. Some said if they wanted those names they should have used the native language, rather than english, however there was some problem with that, I can't remember what. So that was an interesting insight.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (8 children)

    Yes.

    Free the Uyghurs, fuck China.

    Fuck the incoming clowns who will say “butt Adrian Zenz and cia color ops”.

    Also hilarious you link to your tankie circlejerk thread than the original.

    And I did not reply to you after banning and removing your last comment, so you’re also outright lying.

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Also hilarious you link to your tankie circlejerk thread than the original.

    Eh, I thought I was cross posting 🤷‍♀️ The modlog links to the thread anyway, but I'm sure this was a huge win for you 👍

    And I did not reply to you after banning and removing your last comment, so you’re also outright lying.

    Indeed, you were the only person in the thread who could have replied to anything, but please tell me more about your leftist/anarchist/whatever values that you undoubtedly have.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Indeed, you were the only person in the thread who could have replied to anything

    You claimed I banned you and replied to you after so that I could get the last word in, that's been proven false. Why are you lying?

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 9 months ago

    I'm not lying, this is one of those rare instances in ambiguity between the singular and plural "they". When I wrote this, I had a number of comments in the post, many were still being responded to by other people. Thus when banned, I could no longer respond to responses to them, prematurely terminating ongoing conversations because of your wounded ego.

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  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago*

    Eh, I thought I was cross posting

    FYI, on Lemmy you can (unlike some websites) edit your post to change the link or remove the link and include all the information in the post body.

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  • [+] -3 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Nice try with the false equivalence.

    The key difference is one has real world evidence with actual scholarly debate behind it, the argument is over semantics. I.e. is it genocide or cultural erasure, your events are straight up bullshit with nothing backing it up. But i bet you feel very smug thinking you've “got” me here.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Weird that ML is a reason when that's not in the rules. Wonder why they don't block the instance or have a rule against them posting.

    PTB though. Persecution is bullshit but not the same as a genocide.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    free of the “ML” influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.

    It's right there in the sidebar buddy.

    Persecution is bullshit but not the same as a genocide.

    Forced re-education and destruction of culture is literally genocide. Not to mention the literal slavery.

    image (How's this for a 'school')

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/9/24/china-running-380-detention-centres-in-xinjiang-researchers I know, I know Al Jazeera is a big bad Western information source /s

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    I found that rule confusingly worded, so it does mean .ML and .Grad aren't allowed to post? Why not just say that?

    Whether a genocide occured/is occuring is still an academic/legal gray area. Some call it a genocide, others say cultural erasure and extensive human rights abuses are their own animals. Genocide literally has a bunch of definitions.

    You're assuming a lot about me. I created !Independent_Media@lemmy.today !wild_feed@sh.itjust.works and !indy_news_canada@sh.itjust.works

    I live in the west, I have no problem with western media.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    I found that rule confusingly worded, so it does mean .ML and .Grad aren’t allowed to post? Why not just say that?=

    Because many people signed up for ML without knowing it was a tankie instance and aren't tankies themselves - Those users are allowed to post.

    Whether a genocide occured/is occuring is still an academic/legal gray area. Some call it a genocide, others say cultural erasure and extensive human rights abuses are their own animals. Genocide literally has a bunch of definitions.

    Up until a few months ago pieces of shit were arguing Gaza wasn't a genocide either. I've always called it as such, and I'll do the same here. The intent is to destroy their culture, leading to the end of an ethnic group, ergo I view it as genocide and I don't platform denying that. They have 3 whole instances and leftymemes to do that, they can live without one community.

    You’re assuming a lot about me. I created !Independent_Media@lemmy.today !wild_feed@sh.itjust.works and !indy_news_canada@sh.itjust.works

    Eh, I don't really care if you do or don't, but if I had say posted this Reuters piece instead that tankies would argue it was all Western propaganda. Gotta pre-empt them before they spam walls of copy-pasted propaganda.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Tankies are the worst, I keep accidentally replying to posts on like hexbear and you can't have real conversations, they just want to make cheap points, and will all spam en masse at you if you disagree with their braindead takes.

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    There's nothing "tankie" about disagreeing on the definition of a word with a lot of definitions. Maybe wait for the argument before arguing against it?

    I bookmarked that article, thanks. Although, I found no mention of the word "genocide," I like Reuters.

    This is why I don't like Al-Jazeera

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    There's everything tankie about an .ml denying the genocide of the Uyghur. And no, I'm not going to platform them and give them a chance to say their shit. Like I said they have 3 whole comms to do that in, they can go do it there.

    I'm gonna be real with you, I'm not even going to look at a MBFC link. It's a Zionist shitrag and I don't value their rating on anything as it's been shown to be biased time and time again.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago*

    So...

    ML was a reason for banning them, but you only ban for authoritarian apologia and not because someone is from ML. Now you're saying they're a "tankie" because they denied the genocide, even though the facr of a Uyghur genocide is a contested topic regardless of political leanings.

    That's some round as hell looking logic. I don't think there was/is a genocide either and I have huge problems with the governments of China, Russia and DPK, including the treatment of the Uyghurs. We don't have to agree on terms ro agree some serious shit went down.

    Mediabias is quoted in published scientific journals and their fact checks are done by independent reviewers from the International Fact Checking Network.

    But I can't argue with someone who throws a label on everything they disagree with so they don't ever have to consider nuance.

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  • [+] -9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    PTB IMO.

    Banned for "genocide denial" for pointing out that even NATOpedia admits that the evidence for the genocide an enemy of NATO is accused of is not credible. What do you have to do to avoid being banned? Be more of an Amerikkkan imperialist than the average Wikipedia editor?

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