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Wow, got banned from Memes of Production for...genocide denial?? - Lemmy (lemmy.ml)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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My favorite part is where they continue to argue with my banned ass, knowing full well I can't respond. The only way to win for them, I suppose.

Edit: Looks like there was some confusion regarding cross-posting in the original link so I'll just put the Modlog link here that displays the removed comment and ban, with the thread itself linked here. I'd rather add than change for the sake of the post's integrity and preventing confusion.

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[–] [S] -3 points 9 months ago (11 children)

To your point, I do believe cultural erasure is monstrous, but also does pale in comparison to ethnic cleansing. I don't know enough off the top of my head to say anything about residential schools so I'll absent myself from that one for now.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago* (10 children)

    I'm in Canada, my grandmother was Mi'kmaq, and I agree with the post above.

    In Canada, indigenous children were taken from their parents to be given a "proper" education in residential schools, usually against the wishes of the family. Some parents never saw their children again, who where forced to speak english (and/or french,) and stripped of any indigenous cultural practices in favor of modern Christianity. They were even given Christian names. Many kids were tortured, sometimes to death.

    I'm just scratching ther surface here as we're still uncovering new atrocities if you follow Canadian news. APTN and Indigenews occasionally write about it and the other bullshit indigenous peoples have survived.

    But I agree, that was/is a cultural erasure and not a genocide. You could make comparisons to genocides, including other shit that was done to the OG people here, it's just a different degree of bad.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (6 children)

    Transferring children is literally one of the definitions for genocide.

    What you have described is genocide. Weasel words like cultural erasure should not be used to refer to the destruction of an ethnic group.

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I didn't see that definition on the list. You may mean that's an aspect of genocide.

    Let's not downplay cultural erasure.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Article II on the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide

    (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

    https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf

    Let's not downplay genocide.

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  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    "In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"

    From the UN articles on genocide. I don't agree with that definition because "in part" is too broad and difficult to prove.

    Edit: And because those acts need to be taken with intent to destroy a people. The residential school system was undertaken to erase a cultural identity to integrate indigenous children before they became "too native." The primary intent was never to kill them off.

    The term “genocide” has entered global imagination as the “crime of crimes.” Through the years since its creation by Polish scholar Raphael Lemkin in the 1940s, the concept of genocide has undergone considerable change. It is now conceived as an extremely rare and difficult to prove crime; a “once in a generation” crime moulded in the image of the Nazi Holocaust. Protecting the exceptionality of genocide, we are told, is important. Not everything can (or should) be a genocide, because, “if everything is genocide, nothing is genocide.”

    But splitting hairs over the definition of something so broad and contentious is missing the point. I fight for restorative justice and believe, like you, these acts were/are detestable. Whether we agree on the definition of a word is moot.

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  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    The children forced to go to these schools largely were returned to the region they came from, when their residence was ended. The schools also tended to operate in the region of the people they put through the system. The Trail of Tears, however, is the kind of thing where displacement is considered to be a genocide, these things are both horrible, but they are not the same.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    The House of Commons has literally stated it is a genocide, based on the findings of the 2015 Truth and Reconciliation Council. The TRC was chaired by Murray Sinclair a member of the Ojibwe Nation, while Willie Littlechild a Cree Chief and Grand Chief of the Confederacy of Treaty Six First Nations acted as commissioner.

    On 27 October 2022, the House of Commons unanimously agreed that the government must “recognize what happened in Canada’s Indian residential schools as genocide

    https://www.ourcommons.ca/documentviewer/en/44-1/INAN/report-13/page-42

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  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago*

    Cultural genocide is not recognized as a genocide internationally, or within the ICJ. So there is no consensus on cultural erasure, as genocide, where as there is in fact one with the others. Some countries, and ngos, considered what China is doing as genocide too, most don't. This also stands with world wide standards for any type of cultural erasure. Similar systems in other countries of the west do not agree with Canada's ruling.

    So, like I said, there are academics that argue for it, and I understand their reasoning, but there are plenty who classify it differently, and I agree with their reasoning.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    A friend of mine, back in my school days, is a native american guy. His name is Eagle Boy, and when he started school where I was the teacher straight asked him what his "real" name was, and when he said that his legal name is Eagle Boy, she said "No, your christian name". He also got shit for his hair, and it was a constant point of contention vs their dress code. They knew this type of discrimination was illegal, they just didn't give a shit, and there was very little chance they would suffer any consequences for it.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Eagle Boy is a fucking awesome name. I hope he never gave in despite that horse shit.

    I saw a lot of the same stuff in school, it's ridiculous when the bullying comes from the teachers... and a life lesson.

    Loved the Chinese kid named Quang (pronounced Wang) who refused to change his name for anyone and owned it. I hope he's doing well.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago*

    Right?! That name goes fucking hard. These days he generally goes by E.B. His older brother is named Sunbear, though he goes by his middle name, which is more common. The youngest got European common names.

    They did not put up with this shit. The school was a Kafka-esque nightmare, and many other people had major problems. I was almost in a lawsuit with them, but they settled for covering my tuition to go to another school, an awesome school at that.

    Talking to him, apparently there is (or was, at the time) some level of controversy within their tribe over this type of naming. I guess there is a portion of the population that thinks they are being stereotypical, and it hurts the native image in some way. Some said if they wanted those names they should have used the native language, rather than english, however there was some problem with that, I can't remember what. So that was an interesting insight.

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