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[–] 65 points 11 months ago (3 children)

If "our" means on the US, you may have to take a look at your electricity monopolies for it to make any difference.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    The US has some of the cheapest energy in the civilized world. I’m not sure what to draw from that fact, but it is clear our energy system works pretty well for the end-user.

    For a counterpoint, check out Germany’s expensive as fuck energy.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    You have some of the world's cheapest electricity wholesale. You also have a huge variance in prices to end-user, with the people that complain on the internet being among the most expensive in the world... because, of course, people that get cheaper prices don't complain.

    Also, yes, electricity in Germany is expensive as fuck.

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  • [–] 29 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Imagine the savings to society with the energy independence from green energy

    • shut down most of the continent wide natural gas distribution infrastructure
    • shut down most of the continent wide gasoline distribution infrastructure
    • cut way back on the military when we no longer have to protect oil kingdoms
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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    There were recently a couple of bad gas leaks locally and it was an interesting reminder that there's these natural gas lines laid crisscrossing the northern US that are just explosions waiting to happen. There's been some nasty ones too

    The unavoidable conclusion in today's world is that we need to be phasing out natural gas. It can't be cleanly turned off and back on, it's wildly dangerous if it leaks out due to poor install/maintaince or natural disasters, it can explode if someone happens to drill into a gas line (I know a guy who did internet installs and at the time he joked about how "yeah you just drill holes into folks homes to poke the cables through and hope you don't hear hissing after drilling") during a house fire it just feeds more extremely potent fuel into the fire until turned off. About the only benefit is when it's extremely cold out, such as when the destabilizing polar vortex whips through, natural gas is probably the most energy efficient option to keep homes and businesses inhabitable

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Plus methane is a much stronger greenhouse gas than CO2, even with the shorter lifetime. We seem entirely unable to reduce methane leaks or even measure them against natural gas usage.

    But from a consumer perspective.

    • where I live, electricity is much more expensive than natural gas, maybe double the cost per unit of energy
    • and I pay even more for 75% renewables
    • I just got a heat pump installed for my addition. So far temps have gotten just a bit under freezing and it has no problems keeping up

    But that adds up to a reality where the cost threshold is mid-40°F’s. While it may be an argument in favor of solar, I don’t have enough unshaded roof to generate more than half my usage

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  • [–] 51 points 11 months ago (23 children)

    This argument has received responses calling me a Commie, a Tankie, and 'a would-be enslaver of humanity' from family, friends, and internet randoms alike.

    For me it is that I just... sorta listened to Bill Nye in the 90s about carbon dioxide.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (22 children)

    I am pretty sure 90% of people who get called tankies on Lemmy are not communists. Tankie-calling is by far the most obnoxious Lemmy community pastime. But I'll give them this, it's an extremely annoying word, much more annoying to be called than "fascist". We need an unjustifiably smug sounding pejorative for people who call everyone tankies, to call them in exchange so that they can see how not epic their insult is.

    The key thing is that the insult needs to seem like you think it's really badass and brave of you to call them that, and it should seem like you think they're seething at you, when in reality it's a super lame insult. Like so:

    "You're a tankie"

    "Oh no the Tankie-twister has arrived!"

    "Wtf kind of lame insult is that lol"

    "Now you know how everyone else feels about being called tankies"

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (15 children)

    Does the person deny the human rights violation of USSR and China? Then they're tankies. Simple as that.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (14 children)

    I mean, ACAB. I'm sure you can find human rights abuses anywhere you want to look.

    But what does this have to do with decarbonization? Is China's production of photovoltaics materially more abusive than America's production of hydrocarbons?

    Then they’re tankies.

    Was George Bush Jr a Tankie when he invaded Iraq? Is Trump a Tankie for invading Venezuela?

    Or is the whole Blood For Oil thing Based and Freedom-Pilled?

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (13 children)

    I should add, those who defend China and USSR as if they can't do anything wrong are DEFINITELY tankies.

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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago (12 children)

    those who defend China and USSR as if they can’t do anything wrong

    I've yet to see anyone - left, right, or center - that has suggested an entire country's worth of people has never done anything wrong in its history.

    "Tankie" has a real, actual, honest to god historical definition. Its not just "people who liked the Soviet system more than the capitalist system". Its an explicit advocacy for non-interventionism during the Cold War. Specifically, it is British progressives who didn't want the UK sending support to Hungarian reactionaries during the 1956 revolt.

    The British media portrayed any reluctance to intercede on behalf of anti-communists abroad as pro-Khrushchev puppets who wanted to see Russian tanks flatten all of Europe. That's what a "Tankie" is supposed to mean. It's a person accused (by anti-soviet British media) of wanting a Soviet conquest of the planet.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    If you definition hasn't evolved since the 50s it might be a little out of date. That definition could draw retirement at this point.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    If you definition hasn’t evolved since the 50s

    How do you read English?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    Not the same as old or middle English I'll tell you that. I also don't speak Latin or Germanic despite those being the origin of many of the words I use.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago* (6 children)

    Not the same as old or middle English I’ll tell you that.

    Did you drop a decimal point? Middle English isn't 50 years old. Hell, the Transatlantic Accent isn't 50 years old.

    I also don’t speak Latin or Germanic

    You'll never make it as a proper Catholic.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (5 children)

    Are you trying to argue that language is static? Because we both know that's bullshit. Especially when it comes to slang. At this point I don't know what you're trying to argue. It seems like you're trying to derail the conversation instead of defending your position.

    We're also talking about 70 years ago. It's hard to remember that the 90s weren't 10 years ago, but let's stay on topic.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Are you trying to argue that language is static?

    I'm pointing out a term's historical roots. You just seem to be arguing through hyperbole. FFS, even if you don't want to acknowledge the existence of Latin, you might at least recognize the existence of etymology as a field.

    We’re also talking about 70 years ago.

    Brother, wait till you find out how old Arabic numerals are.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    Not for the last 3 replies you haven't. If that's your only point then we aren't in disagreement. You and I both know where the term originated. It seems like you're fighting the idea that it could change since then. If that's the case I'll reiterate, language changes. Slang changes faster than most.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    If that’s the case I’ll reiterate

    You would have to make sense the first time for it to matter

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    We need an unjustifiably smug sounding pejorative for people who call everyone tankies, to call them in exchange so that they can see how not epic their insult is.

    A lot of people dont deserve a reply. Works great for me. I'm sure thats been me many times in the past. (And future)

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    I am pretty sure 90% of people who get called tankies on Lemmy are not communists

    It's funny, because the term was coined back in the 1950s to describe British progressives who opposed NATO intervention in Eastern Europe.

    If anti-interventionism is what passes the bar for Communism, I suspect Lemmy might be flush with the little red bastards.

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago

    Bold of you to assume the government cares about you at all.

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)

    Thankfully that is going to happen anyway through simple economics. Fossil fuel extraction is functionally already a peak technology, out of which every bit of efficiency has been squeezed by over 100 years of frantic and lavishly funded scientific development, whereas solar, battery, and wind technologies have been absolutely plunging in $-per-Kw to deploy and have much much further to go. So governments can try to slow this down as much as they wish, but it's as much a fool's errand as trying to rescue the horse industry in about 1920.

    Now as for the question of "why isn't this more efficient technology resulting in savings for, me, the consumer?" I can only encourage you to look at the entire history of extractive, investor-driven capitalism for the answer.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago*

    Yeah, oil used to be the cheapest energy source for most situations (with the notable exception of mass power generation, were coal - an environmental even worse fossil fuel - was cheaper), but over the last couple of decades due to pressure on both the supply side (the easilly and cheaply extractable stuff gone) and from competing energy sources (like solar and wind-generation) oil stopped being one of the cheapest energy sources and it was pushed into just those uses were its high energy density gave it an advantage (i.e. transportation).

    With better battery technology even that advantage is being lost (so electric cars are becoming the standard), which leaves only some chemical synthesis processes as places were oil is the best option.

    Coal was kind pushed out of most of its markets long ago (hence you don't see that many steam trains around) so it is mainly used in power generation, and the falling cost of solar is making coal uncompetitive in it.

    Gas is a little behind oil, with its main uses being domestic heating and cooking - now transiting to electric - and power generation - where renewables are now cheaper.

    The trend for fossil fuels has been obvious for decades but there is naturally a TON of inertia in the pricing changes actually resulting in the needed infrastructure changes to transition away from them plus the Economic interests which extract rents in those areas are very literally paying politicians to delay this change as much as possible hence phenomenons like many more rightwing political parties pushing anti-renewables policies.

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago

    Would companies make it cheaper or would they keep the price and pocket the profit?

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago

    Lower prices? Yeah, I’m sure they’ll get right on that…

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  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago

    I'm confused, how does this help shareholders?

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    What’s the context of the painting?

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Holy shit, I always just assumed it was John Brown

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago

    No, no, you can't have green energy until corporations figure out how to make just as much money off it as they do fossil fuels. Don't worry though, they're innovating. Last summer some prick about had my dad convinced to pay him to put solar panels on his roof and then also continue paying for the power those panels generated.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    A reminder that https://slrpnk.net/c/memes exists. I'm crossposting this there, as it's totally on point. The stupid '!' thing wasn't working for me.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    Don't even have to invest. In my area, a 100% renewable supplier was about 30% more per KWH, all of that extra overhead was paid to keep old unprofitable coal plants online. That's capitalist efficiency for you.

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  • [–] 24 points 11 months ago (29 children)

    Reminder that China's competent government has done exactly this, and as a result they produce 93% of the world's solar photovoltaic panels.

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  • [+] 19 points 11 months ago (28 children)
  • You can't say bad things about the government in China.

    This might sound like an absurd restriction of free speech, but consider that it's also considered highly illegal in germany to ask for the abolishment of democracy. Many far-right groups do this, and the Verfassungsschutz (basically a kind of special police force) keeps a close eye on them because of that, calls them "verfassungsgefährdend" (going against the constitution). Monarchies like england had similar laws around 1900, where you could say everything except talk badly about the monarchy in power. That was known as the "english liberalism" because in many other countries, you could say even less. China does the same today, just that instead of the german constitution or the english monarchy it's the Communist Party.

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  • [+] -7 points 11 months ago (24 children)

    What's the awful everything else? China has consistently some of the highest government satisfaction rates in the world

    As a Spaniard, it's hard to conceive 90+% of the population being satisfied with the central government, everyone here hates our government and politicians.

    Are you sure you're speaking for Chinese people when you criticize whatever "everything else" you refer to?

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  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago (14 children)

    "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds soon follow"

    John Dean

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  • [–] -4 points 11 months ago (13 children)

    So 1.4 billion Chinese are essentially suffering Stockholm Syndrome from the evil Chinese Government, and their satisfaction rates have nothing to do with the consistently increasing living standards?

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  • [–] 27 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (7 children)

    As a Spaniard, you should ask your parents and/or grandparents if in Franco's day they would really tell their real opinions about their government to some random person doing a poll.

    Government satisfaction data in an autocracy is always going to be poluted because people fear their words might reach the ears of somebody in a position of authority and them being punished in some way for being critical of the government, so they keep it to themselves and share it at most with family and close friends.

    (And this is before we even count the effects from people's main information sources being highly controlled in such regimes, so literally they might think other countries are shitholes compared to theirs because that's what newspapes and TV tell them. Even though people are quite a lot more cynical about the "news" in such regimes - one of the Soviet times jokes was "There is no pravda [truth] in the Pravda [the newspaper], there is no izvestia [news] in the Izvestia [another newspaper]" - such total control in aggregate still pushes public opinion to be better than otherwise).

    People have no such need to keep their mouth shut in Democracies. Further, I would even say that in Democracies people are incentivised to be loudly critical - those who support a different political party than the one in power tend to be loudly critical purelly out of tribalism, same as they would criticize the other team in a footbal match even if that team was playing well.

    All this to say that we don't really know how much people in China are satisfied or not with the authorities there because smart people living in a autocratic regime know better than to voice criticism of those in power, which polutes the data, whilst in Democracies political clubism also probably polutes the data but in the opposite direction.

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  • [–] -5 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    Your comment can be wholly ignored by explaining to you that the surveys I refer to are done by western institutions like Pew Research, the University of California or the Ash Center for Democratic Governance (source).

    You, as a westerner, believe your western propaganda that China is an antidemocratic autocracy where people can't give their political opinions freely. Chinese people simply don't feel that way as per any serious study, and your opinion can be safely ignored because it's based on your misunderstandings as a misled westerner.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children)

    I happen to live next door to Spain, in Portugal, and I did ask my parents and older friends (some of which who are very leftwing and were Communists back in the days of the Revolution) and back then in our own Fascism (which ran parallel to Spain's) nobody would tell their true opinion about the government to a stranger, much less a stranger claiming to be doing a poll for some university in a country which is viewed and views itself as an adversary of your own country.

    Hell, in such a setup people would loudly tell the foreigner (or local working for those foreigners) just how great their government was just in case that was some kind of sting operation by the secret police or what you said leaked out: back when even your neighbours could rat you out to the secret police for saying something critical of the regime, criticizing the regime to somebody claiming to be doing a "poll" like this was a good way to end up a political prisioner (and, unlike those hailing from the middle class, politicial prisioners from poorer families didn't get the velvet glove treatment, and most people were poor and working class).

    So, it's strange you didn't ask such things from older people in the country you claim to hail from...

    That and given how you phrased...

    You, as a westerner, believe your western propaganda that China is an antidemocratic autocracy where people can’t give their political opinions freely. Chinese people simply don’t feel that way as per any serious study, and your opinion can be safely ignored because it’s based on your misunderstandings as a misled westerner.

    all sounds a lot like you're not a Spaniard. Which would make your earlier statement:

    As a Spaniard, it’s hard to conceive 90+% of the population being satisfied with the central government

    a lie.

    Guess who would try and pass themselves as a "westerner" to seem more trustworthy in a forum mostly frequented by "westerners" when defending China?

    A propaganda astroturfer.

    (Funilly enough, there's a ton of anti-China propaganda in the West, especially in the US, it's just that this time you seriously overplayed that as a card when you tried to whitewash your own propaganda with it)

    PS: Oh and just to point out how much that "westerner bias" bollocks applies to me, just after I made that previous comment on your bullshit, I made an equally critical comment on some other muppet from the "other" side talking about "China's attrocities", and that comment of mine definitelly sounds like pro-China to any simpleton tribalist moron or propaganda sockpuppet.

    My biggest "bias" in this is against Hipocrisy and Propaganda.

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  • [+] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    I very much doubt it's an authoritarian nightmare (that would be North Korea or China back in the days of Mao).

    China does however have a system of "social points", so people are well aware that if they don't do and say the right things, it might negativelly impact their lives (you don't set up such a system for anything other than push people to behave in certain ways).

    Further, only an idiot would deny that during about 3 decades (though that was mainly over about a decade ago) China has pulled up from poverty more people than the rest of the World combined, by a huge margin, even while in the West social mobility went into reverse and inequality started growing (especially after 2008).

    Equally only an idiot would deny that in a single party system being openly critical of the Party is likely to have negatives consequences for that person and even the mere concern that it might happen will make people just say nothing, just in case. (I mean, shit, people will naturally just do this at work in supposedly free countries with work-at-will legislation were they can just be fired for no reason, so it takes quite a lot of naivety to think people will not "keep their mouths shut, just in case" when it's actual authorities with no independent oversight over them keeping a keen eye on a persons sayings and doings, as they have the power to fuck your life up far more than merelly firing you).

    Finally, it takes are a very (very, VERY) special kind of idiot to think that there are only two ways to govern a country and if you're critical of one of them, then you must be a brainwashed tribalist supporting the "other" one. There is no bigger kind of political moron because the very mental architecture the use to judge things hyper-simplistic and ultra reductive.

    If people's life was amazing, the authorities there wouldn't need a Great Firewal of China, a social points system or a giant civil society surveillance system, just like in the supposedly free West you see the increase in civil society surveillance and the Propaganda machine (around here using immigrants and even people with non-normative sexuality as scapegoats) going into overdrive, all coinciding (by "an amazing coincidence") with the time when quality of life stopped improving and started going down and the first generation in a century who is expected the have a worse life than their parents started coming of age.

    (Against, this kind of shit should be familiar to Spaniards, at least those who were adults during the days of Franco, because very similar tools were used).

    Those kind of mechanisms aren't deployed against a people which supports by 90%+ the current government, and they're generic rather than a China-only thing and some are just as much used in supposed Democracies as in Autocracies - similar techniques, just with different excuses justifying their use.

    Whilst the country is not an absolute dictatorship, Chinese "we love the Party" data is highly poluted by a "it's best not to say certain things, just in case" concern, information control and internal Propaganda in a similar way to, say, the public opinion in Hungary is shaped by that regime's control of the Press and a certain insecurity so if you work for the State over there you won't be critical of Orban and his party because that's just not good for your career (and a similar thing happens in, for example, Turkey) so their data on it is going to be highly poluted (unsurprisingly, if you personally know people form those countries, its the more well informed people who think worse of the government, hence typically even with all the information control and even iron first, they have worst polling in the larger cities)

    What shocks me is that somebody supposedly from a country which had a dictatorship until 75 can't recognize certain kinds of mechanisms which I'm pretty sure their parents or grandparents are familiar with and their impact.

    That doesn't mean that most people in China aren't content, what it does mean is that poll data showing a 90%+ stated approval of the government must be taken with a large pinch of salt.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Hablamos en Español si lo prefieres, campeón. De verdad que es la actitud más imbécil posible asumir que cualquiera que te contradice es un astroturfer.

    Again, all your comment can be wholly ignored because the polls I referred to are done by western institutions. You will not find a response to Pew Research polls in North Korea because they can't freely carry out their polls there.

    I've had the pleasure of directing the Master's and Bachelor's theses of a plethora of Chinese students during my time as a PhD candidate in a German university. I've had discussions of politics with all my Chinese students regarding topics as controverted as Taiwan, the Communist Party, etc, and I've received a plethora of different opinions, the majority of which were supportive of the Chinese government, yes, even after tasting the glorious "European political freedom" that kept them scared because AfD Nazis threaten to get first place in government and make their lives impossible as migrants. Most of these students now, after spending 4-5 years in Germany on average, moved back to China and live happily there, I have frequent conversations with some of them still. Only one of my students decided to stay in Germany.

    You're taking out of copious amounts of western propaganda if you seriously don't believe Chinese people can freely give an answer to a Pew Research anonymous survey on government satisfaction, and you obviously haven't discussed politics with a normal Chinese person in your entire life.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    Hablamos en Español si lo prefieres, campeón. De verdad que es la actitud más imbécil posible asumir que cualquiera que te contradice es un astroturfer

    Vindo de alguem que acusa aqueles que duvidam de inquéritos que mostram 90%+ de taxa de aprovação do governo num país de "Partido único" de serem "ocidentais com o cérebro lavado pela propaganda ocidental" é uma ironia de ir para o Livro de Recordes do Guiness.

    Se fores mesmo Espanhol, sugiro que fales com pessoas que viveram no tempo do Franco para veres como as coisas funcionam em sistemas onde o Estado controla a informação e tem poder arbitrário.

    Alternativamente, vai trabalhar para grandes empresas durante uma décade ou duas e aprende como é que os jogos de poder e a pressão funcionam até mesmo em ambientes muito mais pequenos que um país: as pessoas quando já são crescidinhos e têm de se preocupar com por comida na boca dos filhos absolutamente não dizem certas coisas abertamente se pensam que estão a ser vigiadas e podem sofrer consequencias por isso.

    Não leves a mal mas tu soas como alguns dos jovens no pequeno partido de Esquerda de que sou membro no meu país - ignorante e com uma visão simplística do mundo e da política.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Sigues con la misma cantinela comparando los tiempos de Franco con el gobierno de China. He viajado a China y la gente vive vidas normales y felices sin represión del Gobierno. Y te repito que he hablado con muchos estudiantes de China fuera de China, y la mayoría de ellos, en contra de lo que piensas, apoyan al gobierno de China. Me decían que no podían entender cómo el gobierno Alemán dejaba morir a cientos de miles de personas de COVID y que les parecía horroroso. Uno de los estudiantes me llegó a decir que antes era crítico del gobierno de China, pero que cuando llegó a Alemania y vio lo que hay allí, se volvió mucho menos crítico de China.

    Si tanto te preocupa el gobierno de Franco, te deberían preocupar en primera instancia los sistemas de gobierno de Europa. Te asusta el gobierno comunista Chino, mientras que en Europa asoman la cabeza los fascistas por todas partes. En España estamos cagados con VOX, en Alemania llegan los nazis de AfD, en Italia tienen a Meloni...

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    It's great being comfortable while your government is committing atrocities. Cozy cozy!

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago*

    In a field of shit, pointing at a specific turd and shouting "Look at that shit" is at best redundant, at worst sleazy propagandistic and hipocrite bollocks.

    China's present day level of support for atrocity is nothing compared with most of the West's active support (diplomatic, economic and even with weapons) for the the present day equivalent of the Nazis committing a Genocide in Gaza.

    Even what Russia is doing in Ukraine (with the support of China) is nowhere close to that shit if measured in terms of civilian casualties as a percentage of the population (even if including military casualties, it's still well below the levels of bloodshed in Gaza).

    We would need to go back to the time of Mao to find China supporting atrocities at such a level.

    That "atrocities" flag is best waved from the top of the moral high ground, not from the top of a pile of Palestinian children's bones.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago*

    China has literally a fascist government. Authoritarians that seize corporate control for nationalistic interests while still deferring to original private property owners.

    Cult of leadership is typical too. Which includes the satisfaction of citizens.

    Makes me laugh when people here laud China. Especially when they're commies who fell for the lie that China is communism.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    China has consistently some of the highest government satisfaction rates in the world

    it's hard to conceive 90+% of the population being satisfied with the central government, everyone here hates our government and politicians.

    You're so close to tripping over the fact that authoritarian governments can't be trusted to provide honest answers. Who wants to say you're unsatisfied when doing so could get you vanned?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I've given my sources in other comments and they're all western institutions. Your inability to believe them comes not from reasonable skepticism, but from western propaganda giving you cognitive bias against anything positive coming from China.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I mean I would be skeptical too of any piece of info that comes from China, but how does that coincide with only 44% of "Township" people being satisfied 10 years ago?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    One of the biggest government contractors in China is the company that conducts polling.

    How do you tell the difference between an authoritarian government and a government that is responsive to public sentiment but also happens to be on diplomatically shaky ground with your own leaders?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (1 child)

    China has consistently some of the highest government satisfaction rates in the world

    Surveyman: Hello random Chinese friendo, how is life under the glorious CCP?

    Random Chinese friend: Can't complain.

    Surveyman: China has consistently some of the highest government satisfaction rates in the world

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    You can question the methodology, I've already given the sources in other replies if you're interested (which links to several different studies, all carried out by western organizations such as University of California or the Pew Research Institute). You're just not really interested, and you will reject the information because your cognitive bias tells you to.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Remind me. What happens when you speak ill of the government there? You think that might affect polls?

    Ill freely admit China has many strengths... but it is definitely authoritarian also.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    You think that might affect polls?

    Polls carried out by Pew Research, University of California and other western institutions. Too communist for you?

    What happens when you speak ill of the government there?

    For the most part nothing, you may argue there's a degree of censorship on Chinese social media, but if there were political prisoners for having "the wrong opinions" in China we wouldn't hear the end of it. There's nothing like Russia's Navalny in China.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    Fuck your government, cover your roof in panels and enjoy. Simple as

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    Brother the only way it’s cheaper to source your own panels is if you buy them outright. Less than 50% of Americans have a savings account let alone 10k in disposable income.

    If you take out a loan for the panels the payments equal what your electric bill would be and by the time you pay off the panels it’s time to replace them.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    So you paid the same amount you thought you were going to pay, your bill didn't increase that whole time, your carbon footprint was lower and you didn't give any money to the ratfuckers? Where is the downside?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I had a whole thing about my setup here, but it was more than I want to share. Short version, panels are cheaper, easier to deal with, and longer lasting than you think. Most manufacturers guarantee 80% capacity after 30 years, area covered is more important than max output, there's no need to buy the whole thing at once, 3-5k no more than 1200 at a time over a few years can get a lot of people all they need

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    [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    And then he was yeeted out of the window

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  • [–] 35 points 11 months ago (11 children)

    No they wouldn't. Final consumer cost is based on what people WILL pay not what they WANT to pay. At the end of the day the overarching goal of capitalism is for 99% of the population to spend 100% of their earnings. You can't funnel all wealth to the 1% if the 99% are holding on to it.

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  • [–] 26 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    So you’re telling me if I found a way reach all my fellow power company customers we could strike and lower our power rates?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    In the short term, yes. The money you've saved is now considered "disposable income" and will be absorbed by the next person in line.

    If a paycheck could make you wealthy, no one would give you a paycheck. A retirement account CAN make you wealthy but only after the machine has squeezed 40+ years out of you. But one way or another that money is leaving your hands and flowing back into the system.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Yes. BUT there are certain ways a government can help its citizens (and itself in most cases) by allowing them to be self sufficient that has nothing to do with electric companies or monopolies at all. The subsidies for solar panels were a great example of this. Depending on your personal needs, you could generate enough power to take yourself off the grid, and the government invested in your panels by way of those subsidies. In many cases the extra electricity from the panels that you don't use can go back into a grid to be used by someone else. Theoretically helping you and the government. There are, of course some issues with the system but speaking from experience it can absolutely work and work wonderfully.

    Unfortunately Trump (of course) has killed these subsidies so that will not be a thing as of new years 2026.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Ok, sure. There are theoretical and convoluted ways to disconnect from the electric grid. You're still buying solar panels. Your out of pocket costs don't change. The river of money still flows into and out of your life. It's called currency for a reason. The whole system is designed to stop you from keeping your money.

    The dark secret about money is that it only works when there's isn't enough for everyone. Despite what politicians want you to believe, you are SUPPOSED to live paycheck to paycheck- at least under a western capitalist economy. This is why poor people are both the most valuable citizens, and easiest to control. It's slavery with more steps.

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