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[–] 68 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Switching to linux had me cold turkey league of legends im a healthier happier person now.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Same for me but I switched to dota; im not healthier

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Dota 2 took 2k+ hours from my life. Loved every minute lol. Welcome aboard, it's not healthier but I'd argue it's better :D

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  • [–] 80 points 1 year ago

    Which I'm sure is much higher than windows games working on windows. Proton is awesome for old games.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Good, but native would be better. At least they can't kill Linux the way they did os/2

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Ummmm sure?

    I don't want to start that extremely old flame war of native VS jit code but....

    Proton is not an emulation, it is a translation to native code, and while it has some drawbacks (more memory usage, more time at start up to compile things) it can unlocks a lot of potential when the hw support new capabilities, this is the reason that some dx10 games run faster on Linux...

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I might be wrong, but I don't think proton is either? It's running x86 instructions either way, wine just provides a way to load it from the windows executable and library formats, and together with proton they provide implementations of windows libraries for those executables to use.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    As far as I know for the new Vulkans layers and dx12 implementation there is a "translation layer" from the old dx implementation to the most updated one. This is the main reason why old games runs faster on Proton than in w7 for the same hw. Even if they were designed for w7 specifically.

    Last time I checked this was done during the booting of the game, but i have to admit this was time ago and it could have been changed.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It is a translation layer, but the bit you added "to native code" sounds like you're misunderstanding what translation layer means.

    Games use a collection of APIs (DirectX is a set of APIs, but there's others to handle offer operations like network access and such) to interact with OS functionality, and also receive communicarion back from the OS (the windows message loop). Proton and wine are implementations of those APIs that translate the API calls to their equivalent in linux, as well as setting up their own message loop that translates messages from the linux kernel and UI system into their windows equivalent before sending them to the registered windows messaging loop functions.

    A simple example would be if a function header in windows looks like int32 SomeFuncWin( int64 index, char* name ), but looks like int32 SomeFuncLinux( std::string name, int64 index ), then the translation would be something like:

    int32 SomeFuncWin( int64 index, char* name ) {
    std:string TranslatedName( name );
    return SomeFuncLinux( TranslatedName, index );
    }

    So it doesn't change/translate any of the code of the program itself, it just provides the environment that behaves exactly like a windows environment by translating the "hey could the OS do this for me?" requests from windows to linux. Note that not all translations are that simple, there might need to be more processing on the values, missing arguments might need to be filled in, irrelevant arguments ignored, sometimes data needs to be translated to another format, etc.

    The speed ups can come from improved efficiency in the underlying implementations (which Vulkan has, as I understand even using a translation layer from DX to Vulkan in windows can result in better performance) or having fewer services running in the background.

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  • You are partially right, I was fast and sloppy and I gave the impression all is jitted and it is not the reality.

    The part of the translation is fine. However there are parts that are compiled beforehand (shaders for example and I can recall something about arm or other architectures, not sure now). And this is a crucial point of the extra performance, because some parts can be ported to more updated/efficient implementations, not because there are less services in the background.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I guess most of the process is just using a wrapper to translate the call to a Windows library to the equivalent call to a Linux library.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I think most of the work is in the fact that there often isn't an "equivalent call", and it can be quite a lot of code to make it work. One funny thing is the whole esync-fsync-ntsync issue, where synchronization is done differently on Linux and on windows, and translating it was a big performance hit, and difficult to do accurately. If I understood correctly, esync, fsync and ntsync were a series of kernel patches implementing additional synchronization code in the kernel, with ntsync actually replicating the windows style.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I'll take compatible.

    Most people game on windows. It's monolithic nature also means that they will mostly encounter the same bugs.

    Linux has a wider base of functionality. A bug might only show up on Debian, not Ubuntu.

    End result, they spend 60% of their effort solving bugs, for 2% of their base. That's not cost viable.

    Compatibility means they just have to focus on 1 base of code. All we ask is that they don't actively break the compatibility. This is far less effort, and a lot easier to sell to the bean counters.

    Once Linux has a decent share, we can work on better universal standards. We likely need at least 10% to even get a chance there.

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  • [–] 97 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Unfortunately those pesky live service games that have the most player counts are disproportionately represented in that 10%.

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  • [–] 60 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    They tend to require installing a rootkit on your own computer. I wouldn't buy them even if they did support Linux.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I have a console for those, just never liked them on pc, feels wrong to install them when I have other options for mouse and keyboard play that I would avoid with a controller

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    The only games I've struggled with are those with codecs that are not distributed with Proton. Installing GE-Proton solved it.

    99.99% of games on Linux unlocked.

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  • [+] 11 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    From their readme:

    Things it contains that Valve's Proton does not:

    • Additional media foundation patches for better video playback support
    • AMD FSR patches added directly to fullscreen hack that can be toggled with WINE_FULLSCREEN_FSR=1
    • FSR Fake resolution patch details here
    • Nvidia CUDA support for PhysX and NVAPI
    • Raw input mouse support
    • 'protonfixes' system -- this is an automated system that applies per-game fixes (such as winetricks, envvars, EAC workarounds, overrides, etc).
    • Various upstream WINE patches backported
    • Various wine-staging patches applied as they become needed
    • NTSync enablement if the kernel supports it.
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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    protonfixes is huge, all of those weird little things you had to do like changing dll versions or installing .net are just stored in a script that is automatically run when it detects what game you're playing.

    Also, GE-proton updates more frequently and those updates include current versions of the underlying programs (dxvk, wine, etc) so any fixes that are made in these underlying systems will be available in GE-proton very quickly.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Thanks for the additional infos!

    Here is the protonfixes repo for reference: https://github.com/Open-Wine-Components/umu-protonfixes

    Someone might want to ping that .ml user, since I’m instance banned from there, they won’t be able to see my answer

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The stereotype is of the haughty Linux user, but fuck me all I ever see in these discussions is Windows users being belittling assholes.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I've seen so many Windows users come out of nowhere to shit on Linux when gaming comes up. There was the whole thing where a bunch of alpha testers got banned on Ashes of Creation a few weeks ago and the discord just had like half of people in their discord throwing hate around.

    Also accusing Linux users of being cheaters... as if game cheats are made for Linux.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    For me its 100% of games, but sure, havent tried all games that exist..

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Typically the competitive multiplayer ones fail because of kernel-level anticheat.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This keeps getting repeated as a blanket statement and it irks me a bit. More than half of the top ten most played games on steam on any given day work. There's a small handful of games that don't work that fit into the competitive multiplayer genre and an even smaller handful that are actually popular.

    To be clear, I'm not irk'ed with you, just that this myth that gets passed around a lot hasn't caught up to reality.

    Top games by player count by daily players (numbers are peak in 24 hrs)(skipping anything that doesn't qualify as competitive multiplayer):

    1. CS 2 - ✅ - 1.4 mil
    2. BF 6 - ❌ - 413k
    3. Dota 2 - ✅ - 761k
    4. Pubg - ❌ - 620k
    5. Arc Raiders - ✅ - 322k
    6. Apex Legends - ❌ - 155k
    7. War Thunder - ✅ - 78k
    8. Delta force - ❌ ✅ (work around exists) - 182k
    9. Marvel rivals - ✅ - 83k
    10. Dead by Daylight - ✅ - 66k
    11. Naraka: Bladepoint - ✅ - 120k
    12. Rust - ❌ (some servers do work though) - 130k

    ✅ Top 20 total - 2.83 mil ❌ Top 20 total - 1.5 mil (including Delta force)

    Idk. Having just crunched the numbers I guess it's fair to warn people about some borked Anti-Cheat games but I wish people would caveat by saying the majority of games people play even in the competitive multiplayer scene work. And it's only going to get better i'd argue, although games like bf6 being a recent launch that didn't work is a bummer. As the percentage of Linux users climb they'll be increasingly incentivized to find a solution.

    League isn't on here, that would skew the numbers pro-windows.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    The green tick may give the impression that the game runs just as well on Windows. In reality, there have been issues with CS2 on linux recently. Even though its officially supported, It may look like Valve doesn't have good enough testing to actually ensure that. I tried it on Fedora KDE with wayland and nvidia and it crashed after one match (if not in the middle of it). Similar issues have been reported on the issue reporting repo. It may be an Nvidia+Wayland issue again (like there have been so many times before).

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I was going off of protondb. I can't vouch for each game on the list's exact state on any given day, only that according to everyone who ranks on the website it's native or gold.

    Apex Legends worked on Linux every year except this one. League I'm told dropped support only recently (in the last couple of years). Like, idk man, there's ups and downs to this data, but the point is not all competitive multiplayer games don't work on Linux and seemingly the majority do based on steam and protondb data.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, and these are biggest ones, Fortnite, LoL, Valorant... They are in that 10% but they are the biggest, so at least people like me that don't play them should just make the jump already.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I finally switched to Linux just a few days ago when upgrading my laptop's SSD, and so far I have only opened minecraft to see how it runs - extremely smoothly, even though I could not figure out how to make use the Nvidia GPU. I'd say it runs noticeably better on Linux than it did on Windows.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Unless it has changed recently, I think most distros default to running on the Nvidia GPU all the time: Switching back and forth doesn't always work. (Or at least, that's how my laptop run with Manjaro)

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago
    [–] 29 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    100% of games worth playing work on Linux!

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Okay, real talk.

    I know there's probably 100 videos on this, but I don't have time to watch any of them right now...

    How much performance is lost/gained from using Linux to play games via proton?

    I'm certain any game with a native Linux version will work great, I'm mostly concerned with the ones that need some kind of emulation layer.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    colloquially, I hear "5-10% overhead depending on the game and if you're running mods"

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    On the other hand, some testing has found that running games on Linux with Proton is actually faster than with Windows on the same hardware, because Windows is such a resource hog.

    The hardware in in this test being the Legion Go steamdeck rival.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    See, that's what I was thinking. I'll have to do more research, but I would think all the overhead from Windows being Windows, would kind of diminish the gap between running it natively on Windows, and using proton or something so you can run it on Linux.

    The overhead on both should be fairly similar, though with how Windows is, it wouldn't surprise me if it was slower.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I guess the beefier your system is the less you will notice the impact of a greedy OS (because thats a fixed/absolute overhead) while the performance hit of having to translate directx through Proton will always be there (because that's a percent-based overhead for each rendered frame)

    So for the most top-end rigs, probably still Windows will squeeze a few more FPS. But it's close.

    At the end of the day Linux and Windows are both pretty comparable for gaming performance, so we shouldn't worry about that as a deciding factor in which OS to choose, and can decide based on other merits.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Even if there is a slight performance loss, I feel like for the vast majority of games it's basically irrelevant, especially since most of the examples I see are like maybe 5-15% worse if it's worse at all.

    If you are still over 60FPS then I don't really see why it's that much of an issue. Even having 165hz monitors I don't really notice much difference above 100, as long as the frame rate is consistent.

    And as far as I've seen for AMD performance will be equal to if not better than Windows. The only issues I've seen with performance are Nvidia, but it's been improving and seems to be "good enough" from what I hear. Also, the more people who switch the more likely that will improve even more.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Most stuff works outside of system anti-cheatl level multiplayer and some visual novels that can be tough to setup sometimes.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    The only game I couldn't get to run on Wine was NOLF 1. Everything works except the music, which relies on DirectPlay / DirectMusic.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The only game I am not able to make it work on Linux is "The Sims 4". After installing it on Steam, when clicking on Play, it runs the EA app in the background and tries to start the game, but it doesn't load. Any suggestion?

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Try the GE version of Proton, it's usually more curring edge.

    Mayb this can help: https://www.protondb.com/app/1222670

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    Linux people responses will be like: “ive never seen that, works fine on my machine. i’m curious tho what version of Wine, Proton are you using? …. oh? what’s your desktop environment? … oh KDE…? ah must be a Bazzite thing? i’ve never seen that before on Mint with GNOME on my Intel Graphics Card”

    https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@SilbinaryWolf/115483449807384098

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Really the thing that does not work for Linux gaming is when you have a high dpi display. So many games render the UI wrong.

    I don’t know if they work correctly on Windows either.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Playing Hogwarts legacy at the moment, but I also tested ETS 2 and the tenants.

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  • Even Starcraft???

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I would love to swap to Linux if we could get games with kernel level anti cheat to be compatible.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I'm gonna be that guy, most of them are in some way or another. The devs literally decided to not bother pressing the button that enables compatibility because they don't feel like it.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (11 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Like Elden ring and nightreign? Hugely successful games. Play them all the time in Linux.

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I don't play any of those.

    My point is, there's loads of great popular multiplayer games that don't use garbage kernel level anticheat.

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You obviously know nothing about these two games lol. Yes they are multiplayer. Nightreign is also designed to primarily be played 3 players online at a time.

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  • [+] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You need to learn the definition of "multi", then.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    This. Plus anti-cheat is still a removed on Linux.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Anticheat works fine. Just not the kernel level nasty ones. But that's a good thing.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You're looking at it wrong. They need to not invade our kernel.

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Exactly. This is not a type I need. My kernel does not need to be invaded. It's literally enabling spyware and you'd never know it.

    Do I believe it? I don't know. But it's possible and I'd never know, so fuck that.

    1. ESEA Bitcoin miner incident (2013) In April 2013 ESEA (a third-party matchmaking + anti-cheat service) had a built-in bitcoin-miner component in their client. It was discovered by users in May. � XDA Developers +1 Because the ESEA client ran with high privileges (as a driver/anti-cheat style client), the mining component was harder to detect and harder to remove compared to normal user-mode software. � XDA Developers The company settled for a $1 M payout. � Lesson: Granting deep OS access to a client means if it goes rogue (or is malicious) you get real damage (mining, rootkit-like behaviour, etc). XDA Developers
    2. Riot Vanguard (for VALORANT) and related complaints Vanguard is the kernel-level anti-cheat used by Riot Games in VALORANT. � Wikipedia +1 It has drawn criticism for its always-running behaviour (some users report it loads at boot even before the game). � Gist +1 Some users report system instability (blue screens) after installation. � Lesson: Even if the anti-cheat isn’t malicious per se, because it’s so deep, any defect or compatibility issue can cause system-wide pain (crashes, instability). XDA Developers
    3. Theoretical/privacy risk: drivers acting like rootkits Academic work (“If It Looks Like a Rootkit…”) analyses KLAC and finds that some solutions behave very similarly to rootkits: intercepting kernel calls, hiding modules, monitoring broad system activity. � arXiv Articles note that allowing game companies to insert drivers at boot time that monitor “outside the game” sets a “potentially dangerous precedent”. � Lesson: Even when everything is “legal”, the architectural model has intrinsic risk: trusted code has extremely high privileges; if trust is misplaced (malicious dev, insider threat, compromise) you have huge exposure. How-To Geek
    4. Example of “residual services” / bad uninstall behaviour A Steam forum post (for game “Delta Force (2025 video game)”) reported that the anti-cheat driver “ACE-BASE / AntiCheatExpert” remained active even after game uninstall, caused conflicts, etc. � Lesson: When kernel-level drivers aren’t cleanly managed/uninstalled, they can linger as “shadow” privileged components, increasing risk surface. Steam Community
    5. Corporate/State concerns & data-privacy An article points out that KLAC by its nature has full system visibility (“what this means is that this type of spyware can exfiltrate sensitive information…”) and calls out potential misuse—especially worrying when combined with acquisitions or state-influence (e.g., the purchase of a KLAC-provider by a sovereign entity). � Lesson: Beyond just “can it crash my PC”, there’s question of what else the driver could observe (system activity, other processes, telemetry) and whether user has meaningful control.
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  • [+] -2 points 1 year ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    This is like saying god exists with no proof lol. Sorry, if you have not inspected their traffic you cannot blindly say "oh it's EA, they're the good guys". Too many times these greedy corps have double dipped. You really think it's outside of the realm of possibility someone there has thought of double dipping?

    Your logic is absolute garbage. Or you work for EA. Not sure.

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