The US was happy enough with the Nazis until Japan forced them to take a side
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An imperialist, an imperialist, and an imperialist put down their differences to fight a nationalist-imperialist?
Isn't that just how history always has been?
In the Russian Civil War, the Russian Bolsheviks seized control of the former empire's territories and founded the Soviet Union (USSR). Although claiming to be anti-imperialist, it had many similarities with empires. It was involved in many foreign military interventions and in regime change throughout the world, as well as Sovietization. Under Joseph Stalin, the USSR pursued internal colonialism in Central Asia[2] by massive forced resettlement. Under the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany divided eastern Europe between themselves. At the end of World War II, most eastern and central European countries were occupied by the USSR; these Eastern Bloc countries were widely regarded as Soviet satellite states.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_imperialism
So yes, this is essentially three imperial states joining forces to fight a fourth imperial state (Nazi Germany) which was perceived as an existential threat to them.
Sadly there are elements in all 3 that also wanted to co-operate with the Nazis. Luckily they weren’t able to be influential enough.
We must always remain vigilant.
Indeed. The US had its German-American Bund and Silvershirts who were admittedly marginal, but a large minority of the population who would've been happy to simply sell Germany materiel - or starve the Allies of the same.
A person's voice is a powerful tool - and stopping the worst from occurring can buy enough time for deeper developments to take root.
Sarah Paine (prof at the us navy war college) made a great point in a video I saw a while back.
WW2 starts. The UK and US are already building prototype four engine bombers, what it takes to attack deep into the continent.
Japan, Germany? Nothing even on the drawing board, much less in prototype production.
Japan and Germany picked a fight with an industrial powerhouse, protected by two oceans, without the means to attack even the coasts of that country in any meaningful way. Literally, even if the entire imperial japanese navy went right for the west coast, they would have lost, and that's saying their logistics could stretch that far (they couldn't, literally didn't have the oil/gas).
The germans were even worse off. And even if you could slap the coasts, lol, what the fuck good is that going to do? There's THOUSANDS OF MILES of factories rail and resource extraction happening inside the US. It's the largest producer of refined petroleum at the time.
Japan and Germany never had a farts chance of striking detroit, pittsburgh, toledo, fort worth, hundreds of cities with thousands of factories and mines etc.,
WHAT KIND OF FUCKING MORON DRAWS AN ENEMY LIKE THAT INTO THE FRAY? How fucking dumb do you have to be lol?
neither of these explains how either germany nor japan thought it could win. choosing to start a military conflict when you have neither the production nor resources to win it is simply stupid.
yeah, the oil embargo was real, just like japan's manchurian ambitions (which was what precipitated the embargo).
They thought they could win because they thought they were the superior people. They each had superficial martial systems while prioritizing loyalty and zealotry. Anyone with a brain was meticulously rooted out and replaced with a goose stepper.
They thought our factories were less than their willpower. They just had to show us what real war was like and we'd falter. We didn't have the guts to prosecute a war to the end. They drank an industrial sized batch of koolaid and lost to math.
They thought our factories were less than their willpower. They just had to show us what real war was like and we’d falter. We didn’t have the guts to prosecute a war to the end.
which, you'd think of all the countries that suffered horrendously from WW1, everyone would have had their fill of 'real war' and fought for diplomacy.... anyone who's viewed as 'gutless' after that bloodbath is simply being underestimated.
They thought that Pearl Harbor wouldn't start a war.
What did they think they were going to accomplish, then?
If true, that was incredibly dumb of them
Had they managed to sink the entire fleet at port, had the carriers not been put on maneuvers, etc … it might have worked some.
“We just destroyed your entire fleet, if you just turn the oil back on we won’t attack further”
Common bully tactic.
Had they managed to sink the entire fleet at port,
see this is what I'm talking about: you can't. japan and germany together couldn't pull it off because our fleets were spread up and down the east and west coasts and the gulf.
the literally did not have the capability to attack anything further than hawaii.
I'm curious how a WWII where the entire Pacific fleet was docked in Pearl Harbor when attacked would have turned out.
In hindsight probably not terribly different, just woulda taken longer
The logistics and manufacturing capability of the USA far outpaced all the other nations at that time.
Midway is a good example of how outclassed Japan was from the outset.
Japan was backed into a corner with the embargo
backed into a corner?
The embargo could have stopped as soon as their imperial ambitions on manchuria ended.
ah, they wanted to steal a chunk of china/korea, AND keep that cheap american crude flowing?
see you don't get things both ways sparky. They weren't baked into a corner any more than the US was backed into a corner by opec in the 70s - because being backed into a corner MEANS something. It's called death ground. This is a real thing, if you were anything but a random schmuck on the internet claiming not to be a cia plant, you might have studied it at the state dept or army war college.
being backed into a corner means you have no other choice; being on death ground - your only option remaining is to fight until the last.
japan was not backed into a corner, any more than it was on death ground - but they'd find out what both those terms meant in 5 short years. think of it, 5 short years to turn the entire production of this continent onto two TEENY TINY targets - japan and germany.
Provoked my ass. They were invading half of Asia. Also sanctions are hardly an act of war.
You are arguing USA bad so hard you started defending the other empire. The world is not this black and white.
Germany wanted to ally with the US a
bwahahahaha. yeah a little problem there called ROOSEVELT. Adolph hated Roosevelt.
So no, germany never saw that as a real possibility, esp after America First died on Dec 7th.
But to be clear: they did it with intention, they mulled it for 3 fucking days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_declaration_of_war_against_the_United_States
They 'knew' what they were doing and did it with zeal. Make no mistake, Germany didn't want to be allied with the US we know, they wanted a puppet state run by quislings and Lindbergh.
Did they? The capitalists and communists only joined after being attacked. Before that they were happy to ignore or collaborate with the nazis.
I mean, I would say that picking fights they can't win with more enemies than they could handle is part of the Nazi fuck-up.
Capitalist Dictatorship (2025 America)
"Democracy"
All things are relative, and the standards were... low around WW2.
Consider it the ignominious position of 'victory by default'
Doesn't make it a democracy
All things are relative
Yeah, you pick your dictator, very democratic
The communists would have fought alongside you if you only laid off the Pervitin long enough to not decide to ratfuck them for the lulz

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