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[–] 211 points 1 year ago (25 children)

Funny to think of the right viewing the, globally speaking, center-right as “radical left”. The level of hyperbole and hypocrisy from the right is stupefying.

It’s one thing I am trying to impart on my kids. If someone speaks fluently in hyperbole and absolutes, or getting louder the more they are challenged (or both), 100% they are full of shit and trying to sell you something.

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  • [+] -27 points 1 year ago (24 children)

    Funny to think of the right viewing the, globally speaking, center-right as “radical left”. The level of hyperbole and hypocrisy from the right is stupefying.

    This is a major part of the problem we're in. And I'm sorry but I'm going to "both sides" a bit because there is plenty of blame to toss around.

    Democrats and Republicans have both been upping the rhetoric for decades, describing their political opponents in harsher and scarier terms. Most politicians did so understanding that it was all basically just "campaign talk" and not really true. But it gets votes so you do it. You can see this when you see retired politicians giving interviews where their language is much softer and reasonable than when they were in office.

    Republicans turned it up to 11 quicker than Democrats though - and Donald Trump and his followers actually believed the rhetoric rather than understanding that it was just campaign BS.

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  • [–] 77 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    When did Democrats treat Republicans harshly? The problem is that they don't, they're spineless bastards who would rather take one step towards fascism than two steps towards progress

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  • [+] -41 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    When did Democrats treat Republicans harshly? The problem is that they don’t, they’re spineless bastards who would rather take one step towards fascism than two steps towards progress

    I get so 'fing sick of this "we play too nice it's why we lose" BS. And yes - BOTH SIDES do that.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    You mean by stopping Walz from calling Republicans "weird?"

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  • [+] -21 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Bush II was called a fascist FFS. Back when we still had a court that didn't believe the president was a king actually and congress would at least occasionally push back on the executive.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Bush 2 was a fascist. Stealing the 2000 election, and constructing this whole extrajudicial framework with ICE and Guantanamo and whatnot, very directly laid the groundwork for what's happening right now. Trump is only able to direct a law enforcement agency to wander the land executing his will without having to convince anyone whose allegiance is to the law instead of their orders, because George Bush set it up for him in the first place. Right-wing media at the time getting in on defining a fantastical narrative under which they could direct the anger of their followers at "enemies," Bush saying that atheists shouldn't be considered citizens... it was all there. It was just new, so it was just getting started, it couldn't have much impact and the country resisted a lot of it.

    Trump is more fascist than Bush was. But the people who were seeing the first little seeds of something that could grow into something horrifying, all the way back then, were 100% right.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    You hear harsh words and assume they must be hyperbole without trying to determine the truth. The truth is there have been fascist elements in US government for its entire history which have waxed and waned over time; it was waxing under Bush II and now it's a full moon. When people warned about fascism you say they were being unreasonable, even though you seem to acknowledge that Trump really is fascist, vindicating their warnings.

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  • [+] -22 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You notice how things went from "Oh we just call them weird" to full-on "THEY'RE FASCISTS" in like 0 seconds?

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    For the record, the "weird" meme was years after their rhetoric was deemed objectively fascist by every historical expert on the subject. It wasn't hyperbole, only people saying, "it can't happen here, that's a slippery slope argument".

    And now here we are: SCOTUS-approved racial profiling, concentration camps, disappearing, FCC openly stifling free speech, open attack on sec 230, a budget to benefit oligarchs, pay2win tariffs, rule-by-executive-order. Trump now considers it an act of terrorism to say you are anti-fascism.

    To still bend over backwards to say "both sides" at this point is absolutely wild to me.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    ... if one side moves farther to the right, and the other side stays where they are, the side calling out the mover isn't "both sides".

    (Not that Democrats haven't also moved farther right)

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  • [+] -19 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I mean... I say right in the post that Republicans are worse. But partisans are simply incapable of any introspection.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago

    The reason you are being downvoted is because you are doing a “both sides” over two right wing political parties in a left wing space that overwhelmingly recognizes that neither party represents us or our interests. Whether you mean to or not you are lumping everyone left of center in with the right-wing Democrats simply because they are the least-right party that currently exists, and that is not only reductive, but harmfully inaccurate.

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  • [–] 176 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    I wish they were radical left.

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  • [–] 161 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 65 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    Or left light, or left light classic.

    It's just left zero.

    It's just one of those generic brands you'll find on some low shelf in a semi-abandoned dollar store.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 75 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Shut it down.

    Shut it all down.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Except a government shutdown doesn't shut down the entire government. It shuts down Congress and many executive agencies while expanding the powers of the president; and one of the heads of the executive branch, nominated by Trump, is one of the authors of Project 2025.

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  • [–] 111 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Democrats need to let the shutdown happen but im almost positive they'll just give the fascist everything he wants instead.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Schumer et al: "best we can do is write some sternly worded letters"

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    They need to shut it down AND call for a nationwide general strike. And then we don’t stop until every Republican has been removed from government, gerrymandering has been outlawed and fixed, and RCV is the law of the land.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Seriously. That's what's lacking from nearly all Democratic politicians. They don't want to lead, they just want resistance to materialize externally, do some tone policing, and then take credit for any successes. When you're systematically powerless, you should be building your power to impact the system from external sources.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    They're going to let the shutdown happen but they're not going to point the blame where it needs to go. They're going to be spineless and let the Republicans blame them for the shutdown.

    They absolutely have to shut it down. That said, if they lose the messaging game (they will) they will absolutely lose this fight.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That's exactly what Republicans want. They've already proven previously that the people don't actually care about a shutdown occurring. And that just lets t hem further reduce government expenses. The things that get shutdown are things they can't grift from anyway so they don't care about them.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's a lose/lose, but at this point the fascist-controlled agencies are actively working against their intended purposes, so losing in the way that shuts down the government is the lesser evil.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    losing in the way that shuts down the government is the lesser evil.

    Standards are low. We can easily do better if we break these legacy political parties duoopoly on the electoral system.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    Okay, but that's not going to happen by October or whenever the funding deadline is.

    You gotta have a plan that's actually actionable in the short term, or else you're just indulging in pointless wankery.

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I'm still waiting to see who these 'radical left democrats' are... cuz I'm more left and radical than ANYONE that's elected currently. I don't understand how that doesn't just get old..

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  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    You're not radical or left enough to have gone all the way around to being extremely right... it's like a circle...

    Edit: people obviously didn't get the joke 🤷‍♂️

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    No it's not. The political spectrum is two-dimensional not one dimensional. You've got radical left and radical right on one axis and then you've got authorian and libertarian on the other axis. Their can be, and has been, authoritarian left wing leaders. Trump is right and up. They've gone left and up, they haven't gone in a circle.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Government is starting to break down. Officials are being arrested by ICE. This really feels like the pot is so ready to boil, which just sucks for the average Joe trying to get by.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Likely will try and pull some 'because congress is absent' emergency rule bullshit to grab for full dictator powers.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    More evidence for the next Nuremberg trials.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Nuremberg trials happened because an alliance of antifascist countries fought hard at great cost to take the fascists down with the help of organized resistance inside. Today we don't seem to have any of the prerequisites.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    There are precedents from a few different countries that fought to overthrow a tyrannical government and then had to sort out how to deal with recovering and rebuilding their politics and society in whatever form. Chile, Argentina, South Africa, or Ukraine might be better models than postwar Germany.

    There is also this: https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/126900/8008_FDTD.pdf which is based on absolutely exhaustive real world research about what does and doesn't work, and is highly regarded in a ton of activist communities outside the US (and for some reason almost unknown inside it.)

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Imagine invading the Americas. Hope you got allies in canada, central and or south America to establish a beachhead (assuming they havent been occupied).

    D day only had to cross the channel and it was a immense effort.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    They're going to do all that that anyway. Trying to argue that we should give them what they want because they might do bad things otherwise is a quite absurd position considering all the terrible and illegal things they've done already and helping them in their pursuits is exactly what the Democrats have been doing this entire time.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Hadn't said anyone should give them what they want, but I see them using as a pretext to try a power grab.

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  • Giving them what they want is implicit to preemptively backing down from a fight. If these legislators aren't actively opposing them, then they're giving them what they want.

    As I said, they'll invent pretexts wherever they feel like. Some white Morman kid shot Charlie Kirk and theyre blaming trans people, Jimmy Kimmel, and antifa for it for example.

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  • [–] 66 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Lmaoooo Chuck is radical left, sure buddy sure

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago

    Everything left of themselves are radical to Facists. Alex Jones got a lot of leeway back in Bush days because people thought him being against Bush meant he was closer to center, but it was the opposite. Bush wasn't terrible enough for Jones.

    Same with Fuentes and Kirk really; groypers attacked TPUSA mostly for not being racist enough to Jews.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Schumer is going to give him such a tweeting 😡

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    They believe anyone who isn't them is a radical leftist.

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  • [+] 24 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    They could never really be a terrorist organisation, they spend most of their time arguing with each other.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    First of all infiltrating these groups and causing infighting is the oldest trick in the book. So if this isn't your full-time job, then familiarize yourself and stop giving free labor to fascists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

    Second of all, who? Who are you talking about? Antifa is not an organization, not a group, there are no members. It's like labeling Swifties as a terrorist organization, do you understand? It is not an organization, it is a blanket term for a subset of people who like Taylor Swift. Antifa is just a blanket term for anyone who opposes fascism. So yeah, they could never really be a terrorist organization, because first they'd have to become an organization.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No matter how far to the right democrats shift, republicans will always call them radicals.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    Anyone who doesn't kiss his ring is "radical left"

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Shutdown might help Trump to push his project 2025 agenda with no judges working and the justice halted.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I know that was Schumer's excuse last time, but I'm not sure that really adds up. The federal courts can still fund themselves for a few weeks after a shutdown. Also, the lower courts are slowing Trump down, but the Supreme Court is consistently ruling in his favor. If anything, he should want the courts to be running as quickly as possible so he can keep appealing and getting the Supreme Court to overturn all the restrictions the lower courts are placing on him.

    Plus, while ICE is being designated an essential agency and ICE agents are expected to fulfill their full duties during a shutdown, they do it without pay (and get back-pay when the shutdown ends). That's not a big deal for a week, but if you stretch a shutdown out for a month, that starts to hurt. I'd like to see how loyal Trump's dogs are when they're not getting fed.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Schumer said after the fact, or his underlings leaked, that he knew public perception last time would have favored the Republicans even more as a result, as they successfully blamed the shutdown on Dems. But now he no longer sees this equation that way.

    I'm not a big fan of his right now but I like to at least hope that level of strategy is actually happening

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Schumer said after the fact, or his underlings leaked, that he knew public perception last time would have favored the Republicans even more as a result, as they successfully blamed the shutdown on Dems.

    I'm not buying this narrative. After a solid year of democrats insisting that biden was pressuring netanyahu behind the scenes when absolutely nothing of the sort was actually happening, I place no faith at all in any assertion of what's going on behind the scenes. This is a post facto justification of actions schumer took because he wanted to. If I were to give him the benefit of the doubt here and accept the "public perception wouldn't be with us" narrative, the best I can say is that he's a spineless amoral windsock who is utterly incapable of leadership.

    But now he no longer sees this equation that way.

    He'll find some new excuse to cave. It may take time. He might actually go through with it this time, but it won't last more than a week and there will be zero concessions for ending the shutdown.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Strong leadership can shape public perception, so if that's true, it's just a further indictment of his inability to lead. I have to assume that Schumer thought Trump wouldn't be able to get enough House Republicans behind his bill, and had no plan for how the Senate would respond if he did. It's the only possible explanation for why he would let every House Democrat take the position that the shutdown would be preferable to the bill, then make them all look like idiots a few days later. I don't think there's any strategy happening here.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago

    Calling it. Something about "but muh federal works don't deserve this" wiping away tears with $100 bills.

    Shut down the government. Fascism is based on one part greed, and if the lowest arent getting paid maybe they'll stop being able to do as much damaging stuff.

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