The idea comes from when it was used against the French royalty.
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I mean, the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror are still massive examples of what happens when a lower class is pushed too far, and Madam Guillotine's show of equality is exactly why it's a sign of class warfare. No one escapes equality in the National Razor's basket, whether crowned or common.
How was the French revolution not a class war?
I mean, why do you think it was?
The under class quite literally overthrowing the ruling class?
After which they promptly began killing each other.
Just because they had no exit strategy doesn't mean it didn't start as a class war.
Yet to call the entirety of the French Revolution a class war is wrong, see my previous statement.
Why only speak in extremes? The French Revolution was a class war. It was also a great many other things. Requiring that it only be defined by a single trait is diminutive and disparaging to history.
So your point is that the French Revolutionary War was a class war but we shouldn't define it by that trait?
Why even have words at this point? I should just start grunting emotionally.
No, that isn't my point at all. My point is that it is one aspect of it, so defining it solely by that trait in such a binary way, yes or no, is infantile and anti-intellectual.
Words are meant to share ideas, not bonk other people over the head to prove your rightness. Try reading them, and consider what would happen if someone else said them, rather than how it might fit into your own narrow world view.
And what I'm saying is that if a campfire turns into a wildfire it's no longer a fucking campfire.
But it started as a compfire, from your own words
Indeed. But parts of were, and the guillotine was certainly used during those.
It didn't, though. See my previous comment. The French Revolution started as everyone trying to figure out a way to make the bankrupt French Treasury not bankrupt.
Ah yes. I'm sure the starving peasants who did the uprising was very concerned about the treasury and not avoiding starvation by misrule.
Just in case, which uprising are we talking about here?
The French revolution
Which part of the calling of the Estates General was a violent uprising again?
The part following the calling of the Estates General. You know, the actual Revolution. You seem intently focused on the phases just prior to the actual Revolution for some bizarre reason.
If you're going to reason like that, the king than led the revolution. I enjoy debating, but not with dumb arguing like this.
Debates tend to be less dumb when you actually know what you're talking about, so you should try that next time.
That is a disingenous description. You are just describing the initial phase, basically even before the Revolution even started. It very quickly escalated to become something very different.
The other person said the French Revolution was a violent uprising by hungry peasants, so by that description even the initial phase should be a violent uprising. If they wanted to make a more nuanced point they should and could have.
Well that was me. I believe most people would associate the French revolution with "eat cake" and blood flowing on the streets of Paris. So yeah, a violent uprising by hungry peasants.
So most people associate the French Revolution with events that either never happened ("eat cake" is ahistorical) or weren't nearly as prominent as portrayed, and? We're talking about the real French Revolution here, which was absolutely not like that. If you disagree, you'll need some sources.
Do you want me to provide sources telling you that people starved, that the peasants rose up and executed their king in addition to a lot of other people during the french revolution?
What the hell is this? History revisionism regarding the french revolution, what is your goal here? Are you Louis XVI ghost?
The French revolution was absolutely a class war with the under class literally overthrowing the ruling class and executing them with a guillotine, which makes your meme wrong. No matter how you try to spin the French revolution this stands.
Jesus fuck man.
Do you want me to provide sources telling you that people starved, that the peasants rose up and executed their king in addition to a lot of other people during the french revolution?
God, wow. You do realize the king was condemned to execution by a vote at the National Convention after a long trial right? The peasants didn't execute their king; the sitting government did.
The French revolution was absolutely a class war with the under class literally overthrowing the ruling class and executing them with a guillotine,
Source? With sections and quotes, please. At the very least name one time period of the Revolution, because the Thermidorians definitely weren't executing the ruling class.
Like about any workers revolution 🤷 Doesn't mean it wasn't a class war.
Too high brow. Most don’t care about nuance. People want stark visuals— which rolling heads of the aristocracy satisfy nicely. And it’s literally the only thing most people remember about the French Revolution.
I mean you’re absolutely not wrong in your observation, but it’s been adopted very successfully for its purpose. Certainly the noose, electric chair or lethal injection wouldn’t work nearly as well. Perhaps some pitchforks and torches, but then we’d just be degraded to a mere mob.
My personal favorite symbol is Orcas. My patron saints of climate and class justice. “Eat the rich(‘s wealth/yachts)!” Just out there protecting their families and leveling the playing field. And having fun while they’re at it.
The Pirates today would be super enraged if they learned about this
The Pirate flag, also known as the Jolly Roger today was the ensign flown by a pirate ship preceding or during an attack, during the early 18th century (the latter part of the Golden Age of Piracy). The vast majority of such flags flew the motif of a human skull, or “Death's Head”, often accompanied by other elements, on a black field, sometimes called the "Death's Head flag" or just the "black flag". The skull and crossbones symbol on a black flag – was used during the 1710s by a number of pirate captains, including Samuel Bellamy, Edward England, and John Taylor. It became the most commonly used pirate flag during the 1720s, although other designs were also in use.
The early development team of the Apple Macintosh used a pirate flag to portray a "rebellious" spirit. Before changing to a stylized "P", Sweden's Pirate Party used the Jolly Roger as its symbol, which is still used extensively in the Pirate movement.
Not the best euphemism for "rebellious" spirit, and to reform laws regarding copyright and patents since computers have many components that don't do well in water.
Yeah... Symbols change its meaning over time depending on historic events.
Wasn't Marie Antoinette guillotined? You know, the spoiled rich royalty that was so out of touch she was famously quoted as saying "Let them eat cake" when told the common people don't even have bread?
The original phrase, "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" ("Let them eat brioche"), was recorded by philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau in his Confessions in 1765, when Marie Antoinette was only nine years old and not yet in France. Rousseau attributed the phrase to "a great princess," but did not specify who. The quote was later linked to Marie Antoinette as revolutionaries sought to paint her as an out-of-touch foreign queen who did not understand or care about the suffering of ordinary people. A lot of the attitude towards her was influenced by xenophobia (her being from France' eternal enemy Austria) and misogyny (calling her out for a luxurious life that the entire court, most of them men, were living).
Yeah, and also a weird affair that she wasn't even involved in. Marie Antoinette wasn't innocent by any stretch of the imagination, but yeah her execution isn't what comes to mind when I think "justice".
Yeah turns out that quote is actually ahistorical, but also she had nothing to do with the food shortages so as far as dealing the ultimate punishment to one's oppressors goes it's... eh.
This meme is spreading misinformation https://theconversation.com/the-french-revolution-executed-royals-and-nobles-yes-but-most-people-killed-were-commoners-200455
I mean, what do you think class war is?
Edit: Open your link, click on the hyperlink of the 20000 number and open the "social incidence" section. It pretty cleanly dismantles the class war interpretation.
A toothbrush is used for brushing your teeth, but you can also use it for other purposes.
It was also pretty symbolically used to chop the head off of dear old Louis XVI and his wife (the royals), and end the Royal order in France. (Not that what came after was that much better, but the symbolism stands more if u look at it that way).
That's kinda fair, but really the royals thing was more kicking a guy while he's down and didn't have much to do with the bourgeoisie, so I still think the connection is weak.
I'd argue that it was involved in the class war between the ruling feudalist classes and the bourgeoisie; class struggle/war is a tale far older than capitalism or feudalism.
That would've made it the most bloodless war in history then. Basically all aristocratic authority ceased to matter the moment the Estates General asserted itself as the National Assembly, and the abolition of feudalism in France happened in a night in the Assembly, with sometimes enthusiastic noble support. This understanding of the French Revolution is based more on myth than reality.
Guillotine memes are fun but here's an interesting read https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too
Why give the bourgeois all the ceremony the nobility got if a good ol' firin' squad will do? /j
I believe people are referencing the executions of Louis and Marie during the revolution.
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