A video that captured the brutal arrest of a Black college student pulled from his car and beaten by officers in Florida has led to an investigation and calls for motorists to consider protecting themselves by placing a camera inside their vehicles.

The footage shows that William McNeil Jr., 22, was sitting in the driver’s seat, asking to speak to the Jacksonville deputies’ supervisor, when authorities broke his window, punched him in the face, pulled him from the vehicle, punched him again and threw him to the ground.

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[–] 209 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

Yes, yes. Once again they are suggesting we, the people, do all the work, because they are too busy to care about us. We have to do the recycling, because it would be too onerus on the producers of waste to change. We have to do the overseeing of unsafe practices by industry, because it's too costly for the government and hard to ask their friends to stop doing terrible things to save a few dollars. We now also have to protect ourselves from authority, God forbid we ask the government to remain accountable for something. What is the point of having a government if they are not going to do anything but enrich themselves? Are Americans capable of asking questions, or do you just eat what you are fed without even blinking? Wake the fuck up, you don't live in a country, you live in a billionaire making machine, and you are the fuel, not the product.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    Soon there will be a critical mass of people who have nothing left to lose. Historically this is the requirement for most societies to upend these types of structures. It’s what drove the “New Deal”, which was essentially a stopgap to allow the wealthy an opportunity to comply with the requirements of basic human needs and dignity. Same with Teddy Roosevelt’s trust busting.

    After that they allowed some tinkering around the edges to make our enclosure more habitable, things like the Civil Rights Act and even parts of LBJ’s “Great Society”. All the while continuing to exploit foreign markets and people for our industries, consolidating economic and military power around the globe. Now, not only have all the lines in the map been filled in, but we are starting to see conglomeracies like BRICS form in order to subvert the total dominance of the United States.

    The only way for the wealthy business interests to maintain their profit margins was to turn the exploitation inward, to subject the American people to the same type of exploitation they have been meting out in the global south, while desperately enacting last minute and insufficient plans to suppress these rising entities and eliminate them if possible.

    The rot has reached the core

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Suggestions of the nanny state never come up here. The dichotomy of what were expected to do for ourselves vs what they say the nanny state does are a vast ocean filled with bullshit Republican rhetoric

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The government always has and still does work for wealthy. They all really do. Some just strike a different balance in perception because they need to in order to keep the people working for the benefit of the wealthy.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yes, but the wealthy create their wealth off the backs of our labour, so if they don't tend to the flock, the flock gets unruly. Heads will roll...

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  • [–] 106 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yup, there are AMAZING videos of people who use the app Attorney Shield that immediately puts you in contact with a lawyer, starts recording video and audio and blocks the device so their only option is to smash it to stop recording.

    It feels like an "anti tyranny" insurance of sorts, you pay what? $200 a year? and you use it even on traffic stops because there's absolutely and I mean ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT TO COOPERATING WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT, embrace and exercise your rights and then go to court.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    The attorney is just going to tell you (a) yes you have to provide your ID (b) yes you have to get out of the car.

    I mean if they told you that in real time, and you were actually willing to do it when they told you, then yes it would be worth the $200/yr to save yourself and your car getting damaged and then you getting a bunch of extra charges.

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  • [–] 95 points 1 year ago* (33 children)

    This kind of police brutality needs to be a capital offense. We need to start hanging these pigs. Abusing your authority to this level is a crime on the level of treason. You absolutely deserve to die if you do this to another human being.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The death penalty might be a bit extreme, however, I am in favour of a dystopian tournament where these cunts have to face a series of increasingly dangerous tasks in order to be provided with food.

    Could call it Pig Game.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    How is it extreme? They have literally beaten black people and minorities to death for years. But if you want to kill one single cop for doing this it is all of a sudden too extreme? Wtf.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Yes. I think the death penalty is barbaric and would make us as bad as they are. Better to either educate, or lock em up and throw away the key, so they can spend the rest of their lives regretting their actions. Preferably in an dystopian pig game scenario as a warning to everyone else.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The government should not take away anything that it cannot provide. It can't make life so it should not take it.

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  • That's a really concise formulation of my own beliefs on this matter. My opinions on how society should handle justice are experiencing extended renovations, so it's useful to stumble across complex ideas distilled so effectively. Thanks!

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    While I agree that this should be a severe offence that removes the perpetrator permanently from any employment from city to federal, killing people just brings you down to their level.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I have no problem holding police officers to a higher standard of behavior than the general populace.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    A higher standard and the death penalty are two very different things.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If you dont wanna die dont beat innocent people, doesnt seem hard.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    The death penalty is an abomination. No.

    I get the sentiment, and share it to a large degree, but death penalty? WTF?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    And it shouldn't exist for the regular citizen. But those we imbue with power should be held to a higher standard. There should absolutely be harsher, even stark penalties for those that abuse the power we imbue them with.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    ...why? What purpose does it serve?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    What purpose does holding those we imbue with power to higher standards serve? Look around at what the fuck happens when we don't and ask yourself that question again.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Holding them to higher standards would mean prosecuting their failures more. Like a ton more, that part is obviously needed. But the threat of death penalty does nothing but satisfy lust for revenge.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Whatever you believe the worst punishment we should give people is, be it death or life in prison, is what it should be.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    That's what it comes down to. It's not that I'm particularly pro-death penalty. Generally I'm not. But if you're going to have the death penalty for anything, flagrantly violating someone's civil rights should be right up there with murder in the list of eligible offenses.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Hell, of anything, using one's position as a sworn elected or appointed government official to "flagrantly [violate] someone's civil rights" should be further up that list than murder. Again I say, tattoo their badge to their forehead and throw them in with GenPop.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    While I strongly agree that they should be held to a higher standard, I'm opposed to the government dealing out the death penalty for any infraction. And to using the prison population as a deterrent as well, satisfying as that would be - that reinforces the idea of prisoners as other than human, I feel.

    But I want to emphasize again, we agree they should absolutely be held accountable - we just differ on what the punishment should be!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm not convinced you're asking yourselves the right question. Do you want revenge and punishment, or do you want a better society?

    Don't get me wrong, the USA are so fucked up currently it's hard not to want to get back at those causing so much damage. I share that feeling.

    But we know from evidence that prison as punishment just generates more violence and horror and doesn't create a better society. Prison as rehabilitation does a lot better towards that goal.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Literally the same thing as the other person, whatever you believe the highest punishment should be, that's the punishment this deserves. If you're morally opposed to life in prison then whatever you think the longest amount of time should be.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The traditional penalty for treason is death by hanging, at best. This is treason against the most fundamental values of what our nation is supposed to stand for. If you do this kind of thing, you have committed an unforgivable offense against everything this nation is supposed to stand for. If you're a police officer that flagrantly violates someone's rights, you should hang for it. If you're a police officer that plants evidence on someone, you should hang for it. If you're a police officer that shoots an innocent person, you should hang for it.

    I have zero problem with holding police officers to a much higher standard that regular citizens. They want to go around calling themselves "officer?" Fine. I have no problem holding them to a brutal system of military justice. Make them earn their titles for a change.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not disagreeing with how unacceptable, reprehensible and un-fucking-ethical police behaviour is: the Police suck and are, in many cases, an unfixable organisation.

    I'm disagreeing with the death penalty.

    The fact that it's traditional is entirely irrelevant and, at worst, an appeal to tradition.

    End the death penalty.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    “Protecting” yourself with a camera is pretty minimal. If the cop sees the dash cam they can grab it and destroy it. I was going to suggest the ACLU’s mobile justice app, but that got shut down. Anyone got a good app you can record with that can work on a locked phone?

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    I think the best solutions to problems like this take a sociotechnical approach. That is to say that in this case, I think that a crowd of people recording is more powerful than any app. I live in a country where police violence is less prevalent than in the US, and I have seen times when the police have tried to intimidate someone into stopping recording them. One of those times, it was successful, and the bystander got scared and stopped. Another of those times, someone who was better informed overheard the exchange and whipped out their camera too, and explained that the police had no grounds to ask that, especially given that we weren't interfering with their investigation of the original person.

    It is unfortunate about the ACLU app though. Tech tools like that helped protect individuals who were trying to hold the police accountable, which is a useful step towards normalising a healthy suspicion of the police. I haven't read the above article yet, but I suspect the only reason why this footage wasn't destroyed or confiscated is because the cops didn't realise they were being recorded.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    There are dash cams that upload to a cloud so destroying the camera doesn't destroy the footage as well.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    We need open source, multi channel dashcams that record to a central box that can be hidden deep inside the car and in times of duress, livestream via a connected smartphone. Press a button, the camera connects to a smartphone and triggers an app. All channels, audio and video, livestream out via the smartphone.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Or skip the cell phone pairing. Keep an eSIM in the recorder and upload it that way. Easier said than done, I suppose.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Blackvue has SIM card options with cloud storage. My blackvue 4K can do it But you have to pay a subscriber fee to them for the storage.

    I bought it because it's the only camera I could find that could handle reading a license plate at 30 ft. I never activated the SIM features.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    And their camera's processing and memory cards are all mounted on the windshield for some stupid reason.

    Having a small discreet 4 or 6 channel camera that writes to an SSD hidden inside the car and has a 4g radio attachment, or even connects to a hotspot would be massive.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    This would be much more expensive. It would also create a weak point. Cops tell cell phone carriers to kill that SIM and you’ll never notice. If it goes through your phone the cost is lower and you’ll notice a service interruption.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Hey, I planned that out over a period of about thirty seconds. My plan is solid!

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I’ve been kicking this idea around for months. I just haven’t been able to solve all the problems with it. The biggest among them is small wide angle low light cameras with decent frame rate and resolution are NOT cheap. If I can solve that problem th rest would actually be pretty simple.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The cell phone presents issues when used by itself. It can’t catch what actually happened and led to an event, so cops can lie. It only catches one angle, so it cant see everything. It requires you to directly handle it so it can be wrestled away and destroyed.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You're sacrificing light for the wide angle. Increase the sensitivity to fix that and you're introducing noise. Extend the exposure time for each frame to reduce noise and you get motion blur. I know, it sucks. You can't win. Best of luck, my friend.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Exactly. I can get around some of this to some extent by sacrificing resolution for frame rate and just allowing distorting the image of it just letting showing things as they happen and that could address light sensitivity but that means sacrificing detail which could be important too. I dunno. I haven’t been able to solve this cheaply. There’s definitely off the shelf solutions to this but nothing at all affordable.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    There's endless reasons why the last decade+ has pushed me to being completely done with authority worship. Fuck you and your fucking badge. Fuck these pigs. If you're a cop, you should just fucking quit or drop dead. Fuck police. Fuck security. Fuck military. Fuck em all. Countless times we have seen this is a profession that seeks, attracts, and breeds the most vile pieces of scum.

    If you're a cop or were a cop, go fuck yourself and fuck your precinct and fuck your family and fuck your friends.

    I have never needed a cop in my entire life. I have never found myself in a situation where a cop would have helped. They HAVE however found themselves in MY life a handful of times making the interaction AS FUCKING NEEDLESSLY INTENSE AS POSSIBLE. I have never done drugs, don't drink, came from an affluent family, and got a degree and became a productive member of society and do not visually come off as any sort of minority or profiled group. Yet even I have personally witnessed how fucking aggressive cops are abojt ANY fucking interaction no matter how mundane, and I know countless people personally who have experienced far worse than I did.

    Fuck the police. Every fucking one of them.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's really trippy to reflect back on my pre-ACAB days. I recognised that the ways things currently work is far from just, but I was still in the "surely not all cops" mode of thinking; even if I understood how much of this injustice is a systemic problem. Whilst it was several years ago now, it still feels recent enough that I am baffled at how misguided I was to hold the beliefs I did and still consider myself anti-ACAB

    I remember vividly that one day, it occurred to me that if ACAB seemed excessive and unreasonable a to me, that perhaps I was operating on incorrect assumptions about what ACAB actually meant (because me being wrong surely is more likely than everyone who says ACAB either being deeply misguided, or inflammatory edgelords). This led to me googling "why ACAB is right" and finding a lot of things that made sense to me.

    I don't know where I'm going with this. I think perhaps my overall point is roughly that I think it's good to label these things with ACAB, where appropriate, because whilst the acronym itself doesn't have much explanatory power, it is useful as a distillation of a bunch of beliefs about the justice system that are actually somewhat commonly held. It makes me think of the saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". Years ago, I was a silly horse who complained of thirst while standing next to water; sometimes it's useful to say "dude, you're literally standing in water".

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah, especially if you personally know a cop, they can be decent people on their own. But every day they renew their commitment to enforce laws, some of which they will acknowledge are unjust, even if they aren’t otherwise corrupt or interested in brutalizing people, and they will let all but (maybe) the worst abuses go unreported to not get fired or held back from promotions.

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  • And if they show their decency and use their position of power to unequally enforce the law in the pursuit of genuine justice, this is them being a bad cop, in that a cop's individual sense of justice is not meant to sway them. To ignore or undermine unjust laws also undermines their own role as a cop — one might even say it makes them less of a cop.

    Even without corruption or the use of excessive force, policing as an institution is inherently fucked up. When laws are unjust, an impartial enforcer of them is also unjust. Some go into the job with the admirable goal of trying to be a force for good, but their efforts will only strengthen a broken institution that will gradually leech the goodness from them.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Having body cams on cops was the one of the best decisions we've made as a society in recent years. Not only do they flush out shitty cops like this, but they have also protected good cops from false accusations and violent people. They need to be required everywhere and cops must have them on their entire shifts or they'll face criminal investigations.

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