The Sapienza computer scientists say Wi-Fi signals offer superior surveillance potential compared to cameras because they're not affected by light conditions, can penetrate walls and other obstacles, and they're more privacy-preserving than visual images.

[…] The Rome-based researchers who proposed WhoFi claim their technique makes accurate matches on the public NTU-Fi dataset up to 95.5 percent of the time when the deep neural network uses the transformer encoding architecture.

top 92 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 1 point 1 year ago

I know people, funded, building WiFi scanners, but for the industry. They are cheap and can scan big stuff but they are quite imprecise, I wonder if you have like to stand in a specific pose on a specific spot for it to work?

  • source
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Can I become obese in a day to avoid being fingerprinted?

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    If it doesn’t get used for bad purposes it is very cool yes. So no it’s not cool at all. It’s fucked.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    People willingly provide enough tracking of themselves already

    While this could have military applications, the need to generate a profile of the person you want to track makes this less of a concern for your average “carries a phone everywhere” person

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Tech companies are always foaming at the mouth to get more data. Yes they know who you are but what do you think, how do you feel, how do you move? The only way to go is to get richer data. This satisfies that addiction. You really think mark Zuckerberg won’t use this against you if he can?

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 118 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 78 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Great, another dystopian way for authorities to observe me on the shitter

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Your poo time has expired and your pay is docked. Flushing will cost 50 dollars for the next week. Get back to work

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 155 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Ironically, a tin foil hat would probably work to prevent that kind of surveillance

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago* (8 children)

    wouldn’t that make it worse? basically any signal can bounce off you, making yourself even easier to track.

    edit: wording

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    The tracking happens even with a big reflector/scatterer on your head, but as long as you dont wear it regularly, the system would have difficulty identifying you from wave propagation alone

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    So wear many different hats. Got it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 68 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    accurate matches up to 95.5% of the time

    and they’re more privacy-preserving than visual images

    Oh fuck all the way off.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    When anyone or anything says that their product works "up to x%" I always presume it doesn't really work at all.
    Christ, 1% is included in that "up to 95.5%" vague bullshit statement.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I believe the reason they had to say "up to" is because the "signatute" will vary day to day ever so slightly (natural weight fluctuation), and if you gain or lose weight it can change dramatically, so the AI would have to constantly consider that and adjust it's records.

    Honestly, unpopular opinion, but as long as it isn't very short wavelength RF and they allow for self-hosted/open-source alternatives, I do find it a bit more privacy respecting than cameras, of course they have to say they are using the technology in public places.

    It also has it's ways of fooling it, instead of wearing a wig and a false nose, you could wear a carbon-infused silicone fat suit to change the way you interact with RF.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 51 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Incorrect bio-signature detected, drink verification can to continue your content.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 103 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    I'm generally pro research, but occasionally I come across a body of research and wish I could just shut down what they're doing and rewind the clock to before that started.

    There is no benefit of this for the common person. There is no end user need or product for being able to identify individuals based on their interactions with WiFi signals. The only people that benefit from this are large corporations and governments and that's from them turning it on you.

    Continued research will ease widespread surveillance and mass tracking. That's not a good thing.

  • source
  • hideshow 18 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    First - someone comes up with this. Next, privacy researchers and black/white/grey hat techies come up with methods to defeat it.

    Better for surveillance tech research like this to be published out in the open than developed in some secret lab. I figure these researchers are doing more positive than negative by publishing their findings. It's not like if they didn't publish, someone else wouldn't come up with this and possibly use it clandestinely.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It is cool for home automation if you can turn it into a presence detection software (do not connect your Homeassistant to the internet though)

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If all you need is presence detection then a motion sensor would be vastly more efficient.

    If you actually need identity detection, then maybe, but you'll still have to have a camera or detailed access logs to associate the interference signature with a known entity and at that point you may as well just put an RFID reader under the bowl you throw your keys into or use facial or gait detection.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    There is no end user need or product for being able to identify individuals based on their interactions with WiFi signals

    Cat tracker

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Could be developed into a useful tool for search and rescue

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    You are correct because something similar has already been used

    https://spinoff.nasa.gov/FINDER-Finds-Its-Way-into-Rescuers-Toolkits

    Microwaves are the same as wifi waves, these are able to detect bodies and whether the bodies are beating or not

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    WiFi uses a subset of the significantly wider microwave band. Ground Penetrating Radar also uses a subset of the microwave band. While there can be some overlap, the frequencies desired for GPR will very broadly based on what you are looking for, what you are looking in, and how deep you are looking for that thing. The wattage supplied can also differ.

    WiFi and Microwaves in general are most definitely not the same thing and I will absolutely encourage you to not set up a 1kW 3GHz jamming antenna for your WiFi needs.

    Could you use WiFi for search and rescue? Maybe for a narrow set of circumstances, but in almost all situations a dedicated GPR option will be better.

    This also won't identify a victim, only revealing that one exists.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Probably not.

    This kind of thing relies on the fact that the emitter and environments are static, impacting the propagation of the signals in a predictable way and that each person, having a unique physique, consistently interferes with that propagation in the same way. It's a tool that reports "the interference in this room looks like the same interference observed in these past cases."

    Search and rescue is a very dynamic environment, with no opportunity to establish a local baseline, and with a high likelihood that the physiological signal you are looking for has been altered (such as by broken or severed limbs).

    There are some other WiFi sniffing technologies that might be more useful for S&R such as movement detection, but I'm not sure if that will work as well when the broadcaster is outside the environment (as the more rubble between the emitter and the target the weaker your signal from reflections against the rubble).

    Don't think of this as being able to see through walls like with a futuristic camera, think of this as AI assisted anomaly detection in signal processing (which is exactly what the researchers are doing).

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Microwave based ground penetrating radar is actually different from WiFi. Also the technology referenced in the link is a motion based body locator, not an identity recognition device.

    This is different technology doing different things than what the original article was talking about.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Being able to scan and model a 3D environment using wifi? Sure. Wifi-fingerprinting the people in the scan? Why?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    I mean I don't understand this as a lay person, so if it doesn't work then fair enough, but if wifi signals can identify human beings, and pets, when a building collapses better than other methods, or even augment the capabilities already used, then at least there is some benefit from this technique. It's not going to disappear, Genie is out of the bottle now, so why not at least put it to a good use instead of keeping it only being abused by the billionaires and other evil entities.

    It's too late now to stop that and I hate that they can do this.

    Please don't mistake me trying to find a silver lining as anything other than trying to find a reason that this isn't just another way we are fucked but the science is what it is so out it to better use. It's an interesting capability regardless of how it can be abused, and since we aren't going to stop using the technology we should really understand exactly how this works by using it and making it was beneficial as possible.. Until we were ready to ban the tech, which I have no faith that we will ever.

    A bespoke device made to do this, not just your wifi router at home, might as well study it for good praises, or we may if only be abused with little defence against our collective abusers

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    they're more privacy-preserving than visual images.

    hhhhwat. How can they identify you and also be privacy preserving? 🤔

  • source
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    They can see you're a person but not exactly who you are.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Well they can identify you are the same person but not your identity.. So it's like a disenbodied fingerprint.

    I suppose they could potentially make some database and train an AI on it someday to match to actual identities, but usefulness would be pretty limited at only 95% accuracy. That's a false reading 1/20 times, so I suspect it would fail bigly to accurately recognize people from large data sets.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I'd imagine it's like online advertisers: they convert your fingerprint to a token to try to sell you shit, but they allegedly don't know who exactly you are or where you go. So visiting animatedllamaporn.com is still your little secret...

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    They know you are a person and they can call your a certain UUID, but there will be a hard time matching you to your name etc.

    Camera's can do face recognition (if your face is even in the database) to know who you are.

    This only works until the point where they have your form in a database which they can check...

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    We have heard this non-sense before, only to find it's trivially easy to connect to your PID.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Never said that it wasn’t easy, it’s just harder than with facial recognition. In theory you could do it correctly in a way that it isn’t indentifiable.

    Also this works in places where faces are protected

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 72 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    I've seen some article recently that the patterns of Wi-Fi/Bluetooth (don't remember which one) interference with brainwaves can be scanned to reconstruct brainwave signature remotely, meaning that it might be possible to scan anyone's EEG from Wi-Fi/Bluetooth distance. And there are some AI advancements for reconstructing inner monologue from EEG. So maybe we're not so far from actual remote mind-reading.

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 69 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [+] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    you can also take a picture of a person with a camera that senses light beams

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Someone’s going to use this to drop missiles on “baddies” with their sleeping families in 3 2 1

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    95.5% accuracy is abysmal for any use case these people want to use it for

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I was having a nice day :(

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    So, you're saying the tin foil hat people were right all along?!

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›