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[–] 174 points 1 year ago* (16 children)

Would you like to work nearly double the standard 40-hour week?

Maybe in the USA. It is 37.5h where I am.

known as “996,” or 9 am to 9 pm, six days a week. In other words, it’s a 72-hour work week.

Fuck off.

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  • [–] 73 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    Sign up to that shit and you are part of the problem. Fuck that.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    People making 400k... Sure kinda makes sense for a few years but they want to every 150k worker to do the same and thats what this shill slop is about

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Uh.... Just saying.... you (or others reading) need to think in much bigger numbers for that extreme of a schedule... Entry level devs at FANG make around that amount of money..... and we didn't work nearly that many hours at the office.....

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (11 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    For the absolute bottom rung, not exactly 400k, but around there. Also depends on the city and team.

    The main point is that if you're gonna work a 996, you better be making at least $1M/year or more (honestly probably more, I tend to undershoot salaries) for it to be worth it. Otherwise, just get a normal FANG job if you only want to make $400k (lower end for FANG).

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Total package including signing bonus stock

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    More like $200k in total comp (but I suppose if the stock rockets like 5x after you're hired, it can end up being $400k). Senior positions can make > $400k/yr in total comp. Some companies have back-loaded vesting schedules so they can get rid of you before the majority of your options vest though.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (6 children)

    I would like to see the data set where you pulled this anecdote from. This starting number for annual comp is not supported by any publicly available data for entry level in any meaningful quantity.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Well link what you are talking about then, I don't see 400k entry level jobs

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I didn't say exactly 400k. I said "make around that amount of money"

    My main point is that you shouldn't kill yourself for only 400k per year. Ask for much, much more.

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  • [–] 127 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    So many studies say this will lead to far less productivity for anything remotely knowledge work, especially over a long period.

    Meanwhile smarter companies are going to a 4 day work week. https://www.investopedia.com/four-daywork-week-study-success-11777896

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  • [–] 49 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Nothing to do with productivity. It's all about small dick energy CEOs wanting to validate and underline their self-perceived superior status. "How dare the little people work as little time as me?"

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  • [–] 110 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    known as “996,” or 9 am to 9 pm, six days a week. In other words, it’s a 72-hour work week

    Tl;dr

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I'd consider it for:

    • The right job
    • The right money

    But it's going to have to be the kind of job I would put in those kinds of hours for free, and get paid at least triple what is reasonably expected.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    yeah, i don't think a job exists where i could sustain that for any period of time before my inevitable mental and physical collapse.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Maybe it’s age talking but I’m at the point where my goal is the job that pays me the most for the least amount of time spent working.

    I’m much happier working my “845” (8am-4pm 5 days a week, ideally less) and then being done so I can spend as much time enjoying my life.

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  • Any company that wants me to work a “996“ can fuck ALLLLLLLLLL the way off

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The founders can do all the 996 they want, but if they want to have their employees do the same, they should offer a fair share of the company at least.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Sorry, best we can do is offer a .00001% stake and pretend like it’s your ticket to early retirement.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    That's ok, they can promise more with no intention of ever paying it because there's a special privileged 'preferred' stock that the bigger investors and executives get that's prioritized for sales and dividends before anyone else's.

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  • You are not kidding. I have some experience with startup stock options and... it's not pretty.

    Before anyone retorts with remarks about "phantom stock" and other similar offers, I want you to do some math.

    Figure out what the 'strike price' of that stock is likely to be when it matures, and calculate what the payout will be. Then figure out capital gains tax and subtract that. Divide what's left over by the amount of unpaid overtime (hours in excess of 40 a week) you're going to put in for the maturation window. Lastly, compare these figures to other testimonials in your field, and also, look up typical yearly bonus figures for more mature companies. You're going to see that it's not a lot of cash for the extra time, that it's nowhere near your base pay rate, and more established companies are going to do a better job of compensating folks for less effort. You may even find that with a 996 grind-set, it might pay out less than taking a second job at retail.

    I can also warn you that if the company sells instead of going IPO, you may get a much smaller payout than all that. I was in a situation where they threw the advertised strike price in the trash, and negotiated a sale of everyone's stock to the buying company for much, much less.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago

    Fuck right off.

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  • [+] 25 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    It's a startup, the goal is to get people who work for vaporous promises of future wealth So you squeeze them as hard as you can imagine then the company collapse and you take their work and sell it to private equity aka "angels"

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I thought "996" meant 9 hours on Monday, 9 hours on Tuesday, 6 hours on Wednesday, then a 4-day weekend.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I would work that many hours a week as long as I got paid +$1 million a year. Otherwise, it would just make more sense to start my own business.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If you're going to work that hard to make some rich guy richer, why wouldn't you do that for yourself?

    I had that revelation 30 years ago, and I've been mostly self-employed since. Even in those times when I wasn't, I was still working for my own benefit, not anyone else's. Those jobs didn't last long. I can only work for myself. I'm a good boss, I get away with everything.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    That's a good question, what do you suggest I research to find out what to do for myself? I'm thinking about starting my own recycling business in the future, but that's about it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Start reading about business, and start thinking about a micro business you can start with very little money, and start doing it. Never forget that the ONLY goal is to make a profit, because that is your income.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    Will they be introducing company stores next?

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    why are they working so much, they don't do anything

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  • [+] 39 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Honestly even in the late 90s it was going down. I don't think DEC or Amiga or something else cool you can remember have anything to do with the Silicon Valley.

    After the original Intel and other hardware things fame, it's a place that mostly collected parasites living off the dotcom bubble and then profanation and oligopolization of tech. The least important part - the companies making suddenly popular user applications and websites. Their main effect was negative - they reduced diversity, competition and redundancy in that.

    In any case ... "AI startups".

    I'm so morally prepared to dance when that bubble finally bursts. A lot of today's rattling of sabers depends on the promise of AI workers, AI drones, AI everything so that a crime would involve only a few real humans.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Reminder: authority only exists because we let it.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Authority is the right word, nothing in this is about actual products or traditional economic value.

    It's feudal (or crook) impression economy. That "AI" is liked by people who can afford to continuously waste money on it. Such schedules are liked by the same people. They are the "Silicon Valley elite" or whatever.

    I've read once a description by Russia's ambassador to Persia during Qajars how this historically worked.

    So - Qajar Persian court, they've received, say, 2 (I don't remember, maybe 6) modern (for that moment) Russian cannons as a gift. What do they do with the cannons? The cannons stay with the court and are shot for fun at an empty ground with no aim, while the whole court and the monarch moan "ja-a-a-n" with every shot.

    It's the same. The oligopolization of tech has made these people so much money and connections with other such people who have money, that they don't care about results at all. It's all shared impressions of what they "already have". They don't have to "run to stay on the same place". They don't have to compete - they collectively own search, social media, what we use instead of pen and paper, everything.

    Or a more traditional example (I might have gotten the years wrong, but I think the idea doesn't suffer) - a bunch of knights in XV-century tournament armor are not a very good army compared to cuirassed musketeers with a wagenburg and actual discipline, but the societies are built the way that those real soldiers are very rare, expensive and present only in select important areas during real honest-to-god war. While on their tournament the gentry may pretend it's still XII century and they are competing in useful things.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    Actually saying that they want slave labor is considered bad public relations.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago

    Our product will make all jobs obsolete. That's why we need to work our employees to death making it!

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yes, work yourself to death for the profits of the oligarchy, you morons. See what thanks you get.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    Silicon Valley Workforces Embracing Controversial ‘Kill The Asshole CEOs’ Strategy

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Culture revolution, 996, USA has imported so many good stuff from China. Next one should be removing president term limit I guess?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    USA hasn't yet built anything like "three gorges" hydroelectric plant, tho

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago*

    I avoided this issue by embracing the completely non-controversial "become a contractor" work schedule. When you're a temp they specifically want you NOT to work overtime without prior authorization - because they have to pay for it. And as a software dev I was always treated identically with employees, except for a few special things like some company meetings and offsite events - which I didn't want to attend anyway. And I got paid almost twice as much hourly than I would as an employee. Sure, I had to buy my own health insurance and didn't get paid time off, but when you double your salary those are non-issues. But what about job security? LOL what about layoffs? My job security was that there are always contract jobs everywhere.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Give me a decent chunk of the company so I make proportional profits. Otherwise, no thanks.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • Embracing? This is been the reality for many startups for a long time. Same with many game devs and animation studios too. Many technical jobs grind their staff despite being the most profitable industries. It is almost like the more money you make, the more you abuse your staff.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    I wouldn't do it for money... I'd do it for a SHITLOAD of money (and then collect unemployment once the bubble bursts, as a soft-retirement)

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  • Capitalists going to capitalist

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    Good, keep those freaks away from the rest of us.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    Yeah I start thinking about extreme property damage at 48 hours of work.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    that probably goes along with that $20M zuck offered to AI professionals. Yeah, we'll pay you $20M a year, you'll be spent around 6mon into the job your productivity will be 60% so.. (taps calculator) we get f#ck all for a sh%t ton of money and destroy people... letsdoit!

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I'm pretty sure half these articles are issued by the companies themselves just to get people outraged and talking about this, just so that they can test the waters and see how many people will defend it.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Let's kill every billionaire, and we'll solve lots of the problems.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    The Americans and their piss poor labor laws, They like working beyond the point of diminishing return.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    I certainly hope these people aren’t driving themselves to work with this schedule. In addition I hope no one on it has a heart condition.

    https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2004-143/pdfs/2004-143.pdf

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6617405/

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309714292_Long_Working_Hours_and_Shift_Work_as_Risk_Factors_for_Occupational_Injury

    The sweet spot for 12s is in having 4 days off per week. There isn’t time for anything in life on work days except work, sleep, commute. Thirdly, the first day off is a wash. Recovery. Like a nap that simply goes on all day. 12s are great but only with block scheduling and days off.

    This schedule proposal sounds like something out of pre-OSHA, possibly intended to kill people. Live to work, not the other way around.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    People are stupid, they have whole nature around them, but they are killing it to create computers and escape the planet.
    That's sad.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    What's really sad about it is that most of the shit they believe is complete sci-fi bullshit and they won't build a super-intelligence nor escape the planet no matter how much of their finite time they pump into these futile efforts.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Reicht Wingers: Hey birthday rates in the US are plummeting!?!?

    Tech Bros: Let’s make 20 and 30 somethings work 72 hours a week!

    Reicht Wingers: Genius!

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I’ll agree to it, but best I can do is 2 hours a day dawg

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  • Oh, does that make Silicon Valley Already Existing Socialism now? Much heirarchy smashing, very worker's rights, wow

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