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[–] 60 points 13 hours ago (1 child)

Someone once asked me that question, and I had the fun opportunity to let them know that my mom did in fact get several abortions before me, which is what allowed her to get to a better place in her life before having me and my sister, giving us a better life than if she'd had a kid in her teens.

Plus, if that first pregnancy had come to term, she never would've had me and my sister, so ehy does the first pregnancy get more right to live than the potential second?

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  • [–] 39 points 14 hours ago (6 children)

    I wonder how many abortions a woman can get before the abortion clinic starts sending angry messages to the contraception clinic for doing a bad job.

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  • [–] 14 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (4 children)

    That's why most abortion clinics also do contraception, counseling, and other family planning: to cut down on back and forth paperwork.

    That's the ONLY reason why.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

    That sounds like a conflict of interest. Charge for contraception, use shit contraception, get a repeat customer for abortion...... Repeat. Literally printing money.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

    They… don’t charge if someone is broke, though, or has no insurance or a host of other reasons.

    A lot of abortion services and a lot of contraceptive services are donation-driven.

    I give to planned parenthood, for example, to help lower income women get care as well as the planned parenthood action fund to help with legal battles.

    When I’ve gone to planned parenthood myself, I qualified for free care, and it helped me substantially as a young woman.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 hours ago (1 child)

    Oh dear, you thought I was serious. I thought the blatantly absurd bullshit content of every comment I've made in this thread would make it clear that I'm talking shit. Sorry to mislead and deceive.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 hours ago*

    Ah no, too many people genuinely share that view or something likt it that I never assume something like that is a joke. There was no indication.

    It’s also really easy to gloss over usernames in threads like this with multiple tangents.

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  • [–] 33 points 12 hours ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 7 hours ago (1 child)

    For anyone looking for it:

    A party of potholers has imprudently allowed the fat man to lead them as they make their way out of the cave, and he gets stuck, trapping the others behind him. Obviously the right thing to do is to sit down and wait until the fat man grows thin; but philosophers have arranged that flood waters should be rising within the cave. Luckily (luckily?) the trapped party have with them a stick of dynamite with which they can blast the fat man out of the mouth of the cave. Either they use the dynamite or they drown. In one version the fat man, whose head is in the cave, will drown with them; in the other he will be rescued in due course. Problem: may they use the dynamite or not?

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  • [–] 5 points 6 hours ago

    Nope:

    To make the parallel as close as possible it may rather be supposed that he is the driver of a runaway tram which he can only steer from one narrow track on to another; five men are working on one track and one man on the other; anyone on the track he enters is bound to be killed.

    In the case of the riots the mob has five hostages [demanding a judge to name and hang an offender when the judge has no evidence], so that in both the exchange is supposed to be one man's life for the lives of five. The question is why we should say, without hesitation, that the driver should steer for the less occupied track, while most of us would be appalled at the idea that the innocent man could be framed.

    It may be suggested that the special feature of the latter case is that it involves the corruption of justice, and this is, of course, very important indeed. But if we remove that special feature, supposing that some private individual is to kill an innocent person and pass him off as the criminal we still find ourselves horrified by the idea. The doctrine of double effect offers us a way out of the difficulty, insisting that it is one thing to steer towards someone foreseeing that you will kill him and another to aim at his death as part of your plan.

    Moreover there is one very important element of good in what is here insisted. In real life it would hardly ever be certain that the man on the narrow track would be killed. Perhaps he might find a foothold on the side of the tunnel and cling on as the vehicle hurtled by. The driver of the tram does not then leap off and brain him with a crowbar. The judge, however, needs the death of the innocent man for his (good) purposes. If the victim proves hard to hang he must see to it that he dies another way.


    But TBH reading the introduction text about the doctrine of double effect is potentially more interesting. We always just reference the trolley problem as a hypothetical, but the doctrine of double effect actually basically 'solves' the trolley problem, in that it answers why we're fine with a bad effect in exchange for a good effect in some cases, but not in others.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 hours ago

    what if your mom aborted you

    god I wish

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  • 29 comments in c/memes@sopuli.xyz view that post
    [–] 53 points 8 hours ago

    This is like the Batman refusing to kill killers thing but better cause it involves unprotected sex, my favorite kind.

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  • [–] 39 points 7 hours ago (21 children)

    If my mom had aborted me I wouldn't give a shit because I'd be dead.

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  • [–] 29 points 6 hours ago (20 children)

    Ummm actually unborn and dead are two different things ☝️🤓

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  • [–] 0 points 5 hours ago

    If it was alive and then isn't, it is dead. That's what dead means. A fetus that died in the womb is still dead, and died, and there is no other way to define what unborn is than to describe it as a previously living entity; thus dead.

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  • [–] -5 points 6 hours ago (18 children)

    A fetus is only a potential person, but it's still a living organism. After it's aborted, it's dead.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 hours ago (17 children)

    It's not yet a separate living organism, though. It can't continue living on its own.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

    This is why I don’t have house plants.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

    I just saw a post about abandoned greenhouses yesterday that says we don’t matter as long as water can get in 😊

    And water is very very good at finding a way in.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 hours ago

    I don’t think “it can’t continue living on its own” is a good measure of whether or not something is alive or a separate organism. Even after birth a baby human can’t “continue living on its own” without being provided for. A parasitic creature can’t “continue living on its own” without a host. A severely injured person can’t “continue living on its own” without life support. Pretty easy argument for even a stupid forced-birther to deconstruct.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 hours ago (5 children)

    This does not actually refute the claim that the fetus would be dead. I'm not actually sure if you're contesting anything.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 hours ago (4 children)

    Can it be dead if it was never living?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

    Do you think women are conceiving intern minerals in their womb? What is this question xD I'm going to assume you're having a laugh, because by every metric a fetus is alive. If those cells are multiplying, consuming various stuff to continue multiplying; the fetus is alive. If the fetus, removed from its source of food, dies; it must be alive. If you removed me from all sources of food, I too would die.

    If you have a compelling argument, I'd love to hear it though.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 hours ago (2 children)

    My hand also consumes nutrients to live. Is it a separate living being from me?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 hours ago (1 child)

    Not separate, but it is a living thing. If you starved your hand off by constricting the blood flow, I don't think anyone would question you when you say your hand is dead.

    Actually isn't that literally called dying off in English?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 hours ago

    I think we're using 2 different meanings of "dead" here. There's "dead" as in "dead tissue" and "dead" as in "corpse". My point was that a fetus fits the first meaning of "dead", but not the second. You can't "kill" a fetus.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 hours ago (5 children)

    True, but only due to current technology. With an artificial womb it would eventually develop into a person, unlike, say, an organ.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 hours ago (4 children)

    I mean, with cloning technology any cells could develop into a person. Doesn't mean we should count my hand as a separate living thing.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 hours ago (3 children)

    A fetus is considerably further along than just a random cell. I don't think it's unreasonable to make a distinction there.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 hours ago

    The greatest checkmate.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 hours ago (1 child)

    I got into an argument once with my dad about abortion. And he told me "You know, you should be totally against abortion. You'd not exist if I managed to convince your mom to abort you." As an argument to limit abortion access.

    Obviously a fucked up thing to say to your own kid, but also it kind of was like: I wouldn't give a shit if you had, I wouldn't exist essentially. Kind of wish you'd convinced her TBH.

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  • [–] 3 points 31 minutes ago

    At one point, somehow the topic of abortion came up while my father was visiting me from the other side of the country. I basically said that I have zero tolerance for anti-choice sentiment and he kept trying to argue with me about it, and I told him eventually that that sort of talk wasn't welcome in my house.

    He tried to "win" me over by saying that I wouldn't be here if my parents believed in abortion (my mother is actually pro-choice just would never abort herself, but I didn't get into that). I told him that would be fine. I would never have even known that I didn't exist.

    I know that is the common response, but it's true, and it also actually shut him up. That and I think he believed me when I told him that he would not be welcome back in my house if he continued that kind of talk.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 hours ago

    ☑️✅️☑️✅️

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  • [–] 1 point 3 hours ago

    Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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  • [–] 1 point 3 hours ago

    Wouldnt you think about the millions of sperm cells

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