cross-posted from: https://lemmy.today/post/63107763

I'm looking for something like Snikket or Prosody, but kids-oriented. I DON'T want my <10 daughter using Meta Messenger Kids! I'll tell my friends to setup for their kids, too. I'd have no access to anything, so it's secure (mom and dad not snooping per se), but the downside is minimal parental controls. Though, no one to really add either.

I'll host or pay for it, IDC. It doesn't seem like there is much out there either.

JusTalk seemed nice when I found out but apparently China owned and so no more secure. I/we need better options!

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[–] 42 points 1 day ago (7 children)

TIL Meta Messenger Kids exists. Yikes.

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  • [–] [S] 17 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    Just building shadow profiles until they hit 13 to syphon the fuck out of everyone's data!

    I found out any pictures you upload to FB of your kids, each get their own profile, frequency they appear on your orioles, etc. They build massive profiles around these kids just to tie it all together later!

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  • [–] 8 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    Source for this? I'm trying to convince grandparents to stop posting pics. It's... Frustrating.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I'm not in the situation yet, but once i have kids I'll tell my parents that, if i ever see a picture of my kids in any of those bs platforms (fb, Whatsapp..) they'll never get another picture. parents have the ultimate decision about such things, if somebody else doesn't respect your decision, they need to live with the consequences.

    it might sound harsh, but seems to be the only really working strategy. i gave up explaining them stuff over a decade ago.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 day ago

    Yes I have a couple sources. I hate to link a YT video, so I'll use invidious. Both are great informative videos, but I don't want to take up your time.

    However, check this link first because it might be speculation without hard evidence, while other evidence points to them doing this exact thing but for adults or people 13+ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20167085

    Its at the very end at 10 minutes https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=Yv2Eb_kJous

    Also here at 12:25 mark on the video https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=9wknq-Ra-KU

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  • [–] 14 points 1 day ago (12 children)

    Setup a private matrix instance

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  • [–] 8 points 1 day ago

    I would love to see the success rate of getting the parents of the child's friend to set up a matrix client for their child's one friend that doesn't use anything they do.

    Help your child embrace not needing to be constantly in communication with her friends, to (gasp) use the phone .... or accept and monitor the evil empires' offerings but no matter what you do, don't for one second think you'll get a single family to set up a matrix client for "that one kid".

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    How would you compare setting up your own Matrix server vs an XMPP server?

    I was going to recommend XMPP to OP, and I don't have any experience with setting up Matrix.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    Selfhosting both. Continuwuity is more straightforward to set up than ejabberd, mostly because of easier docs, less ports, and less subdomains required. It also comes with most things you need rather than a bunch of toggled-on modules, and I'd say Matrix being HTTP makes it more "conventional" for beginners.

    XMPP is significantly more lightweight though, being a message passing protocol rather than state syncing.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 day ago (8 children)

    I dont have a good suggestion, but you may unintentionally be about to give your daughter a brutal lesson in network effects. If all her friends end up using something else, she will be isolated.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    You're not wrong.

    One upside - the kids will learn this, and also the value of separate communication channels.

    I'd I could get my family to switch to anything other than SMS I'd be happy.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    Will 10yo's actually value separate channels? Or will OP's daughter just end up being the "other weird kid on the weird app we dont like". I know nothing about 10yo's though, maybe I am wrong.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    As someone that went through Highschool when smart phones were first popular, it's isolating being the only person not on instagram when everyone is using instagram (even if meta is bad).

    It's a tough decision but if privacy matters more, it's going to be harder to connect with more people. Idk which country you are in so maybe alternatives are super popular.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    Yeah, that's exactly my point. I am not a parent, but in my opinion, it would be better to allow the use of whatever platform is the default, maybe provide an alternative, and give the child an age appropriate understanding of what using Instagram/Whatever means to them. "You can use it, but don't say anything private like our address, because your private messages can be read by the company. If you need to say something private, use signal/matrix/whatever else, because that's safe.". Maybe if your lucky they can pass that knowledge to their friends as well.

    Kids are walking privacy violations at the best of times anyway, education needs to start early.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    Yeah, this is a tough one if I ever have a kid. The reason I still use shitty WhatsApp is because every single relative and friend outside of the US uses it. The ultimate privacy isn't worth being alone and losing those connections to me.

    Also kids are mean, I could totally see them treating the kid with the weird app poorly just for doing so.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 day ago

    As an alternative, around here, home phones (through voip) are making a comeback for kids.

    Secure comms, no log, no photos, teaches a bit of etiquette.

    Compatibility between self hosted and commercial systems.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (8 children)

    I would go with Deltachat. There is no public directory of anything, so it's impossible to know who is/isn't there or randomly contact anyone. The only ways to start a conversation/follow someone are:

    • scan qr codes, so you need physical presence and it's easy to see when there is no consent
    • clicking on a random link

    It i safe to tell your kids to not click on random links, so it's the safest way for kids to not randomly come into contact of people

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 day ago (5 children)

    Ok, but getting other parents on board so my kid can talk to theirs seems near impossible as they're non-technical.

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  • @unitedwithme These kinds of thoughts are good ones. I wish I was more skilled in software development to build solutions for the younger ones in my family.As a Business Analyst I would ask - What kind of feature would you look for in a messaging app for young people I care about. I guess for me it would include things like:Ability to:Control who the can communicate withSee the communications they send and receiveLimit their ability to add new people (or have an approval step that involved me or their parents )I'm guessing that once you have an idea of the requirements - appropriate clients could be built on any of the technologies we have like XMPP or Matrix.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    snikket! you can host it yourself or let jmp run it for you!

    been using it for years after matrix was heavy and hard to maintain

    snikket is a docker!

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    Snikket is XMPP under the hood right?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    Yes! I run Snikket already for my phone app! Cam you run side by side instances? I've never really tried. I'll have to look at how to run a domain that way.

    Anyway, I'm trying Matrix (FluffyChat) but being new to Matrix, not sure how to point to my own subdomain for the app to connect.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    For Matrix, what server software are you hosting and what's your subdomain setup? When logging in, you just enter the domain behind your username (e.g. use example.com if your username is @user:example.com)

    Edit: not sure if Snikket supports multiple domains, but its upstream, the Prosody server, does that just fine

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