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[–] 4 points 2 days ago* (1 child)

Privacy is not a commodity

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  • 19 comments in c/privacy@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 6 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    I've been using Kagi off and on for about 6 months and overall I've enjoyed the experience. That being said, while they have a way to browse anonymously/privately, it's hard to take their word for it when you have to sign in to use their product. I'll probably continue to use it, but if I really need some privacy, I'm just going to fire up that onion and wade through DDG results, which are still alright.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (2 children)

    You seem to be misinformed. Kagi's privacy pass cryptographically proves that you're allowed to search, without having anything link back to your account. It doesn't get more anonymous than that.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    No, what they said is technically accurate.

    The whole point of their architecture is that they don’t have to look up your account — but that does nothing to guarantee that they don’t decide to look up your account.

    Since you have to auth in order to generate the anonymized tokens, Kagi could (in principle) track which account generated the tokens and query that relationship when you go to use a token.

    Ultimately, if you’re not fabricating your own silicon and hand-writing your own assemblers and compilers, you gotta trust someone, so it’s good enough for my risk profile, but I can understand if that’s not good enough for some people.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    That is factually incorrect.

    Help page from Kagi (I'd understand if you don't trust it), fit for non-techie consumption. https://help.kagi.com/kagi/privacy/how-does-privacy-pass-work.html

    So here's the RFC, which defined the protocol in the first place (Kagi didn't invent it, just implements it) https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc9576/

    As such they have absolutely no way of 'deciding' to look up a searchers account based on the token used.

    That ofcourse does not reduce other ways anyone can track you like fingerprinting.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 days ago (7 children)

    Yeah that is an AD for a corporate with an overpriced services.

    I find it sad that privacy which is a fucking human right is being commercialized, packaged and resold as an overpriced commodity by corporations like kagi, proton or whatever coming next in line.

    In reality this makes “privacy” a product only rich westerners of the world can afford, while other poor global south humans can fuck off

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago (6 children)

    Huh? How exactly do you package privacy? It’s something you can lose, but not something you can buy.

    Kagi is selling search, same as Google. The difference is that you can only pay in dollars, not data.

    I agree it’s overpriced, but this is where we are. The actual market for genuine web services is atrophied after 30 years of neckbeards naively insisting that web services should be free. Search should cost $5/year by now. But oh well, 30 years too late is better than never.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    30 years of neckbeards naively insisting that web services should be free.

    Why. You were off to a great start.

    I'm one of those neckbeards and web services should be free, as in a social service. So should potable drinking water.

    Paying for a social service with money voluntarily or with your own data is not a really a choice between providers, it's an admission that we should, in fact, all remain essentially cattle.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    I too was one of those neckbeards, so I use the term with love. :)

    I certainly think we should voluntarily create some crowd-funded free-to-use services like the fediverse. But we can’t pretend that commerce doesn’t exist.

    People are going to try to make money by hosting stuff online and enticing people to go there and use it. I would prefer if those people made money by charging admission instead of by collecting and selling data.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    I am talking about privacy, i was not talking about search engine (indexing websites text and pulling results).

    You are missing the point completely here, privacy should not be a debatable subject, laws should been in place to fully protect humans from data markets, governments should never allowed this situation (where google sells your information) to exist.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I agree with your policy position. The three options should be:

    1. Crowd-funded, free to use, privacy preserving
    2. Paid, privacy preserving
    3. Self-hosted

    A fourth “free to use, subsidized through data collection” option shouldn’t even be legal.

    But we’re not there yet. And in order to get there, we need companies like Kagi to populate the second category so that when politicians say “but how will they make money if they can’t sell data?” we have examples to point to.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    Crowd-funded, free to use, privacy preserving Paid, privacy preserving Self-hosted

    quit it w that tankie shit! lol

    (in case it's not clear: i'm agreeing with you)

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago*

    FYI they have a limited free version now where you can get more usage out of it by clearing cookies, but it might behave differently on different IP addresses

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    I cannot imagine paying for search. Why am I seeing this ad?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    If you use search many times a day, like for work, then it's a much more pleasant and efficient experience. Search results are customizeable, you have a personal blocklist, AI slop farms filtered out, etc. But yeah it's a hard sell for the casual user.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

    Kagi: "Education shouldn't be held for ransom. So we charge you to search literally the same info you get for no cost on DDG."

    Edit: lmfao kagi bots downvoting

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  • 13 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 28 points 2 days ago* (3 children)

    Many schools wouldn't be able to afford Kagi just for their students to search the web though; DDG would be much more viable for that purpose.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    As far as public education, yeah Kagi doesn't have the legal and compliance framework to even attempt. You'd also need to provide an alternative to the whole docs/drive/etc ecosystem.

    For like colleges though, I think there's a more viable path — I can't see their purely per-seat pricing model working though; and is also the problem I see with their "teams" plan. The better way there is to either provide a hybrid and/or totally ala carte pricing model, one where you pay per seat and also get a number of searches added to the whole plan ($3/seat + 250 searches); and another where you don't have seats and instead just accumulate searches and pay at the end of the month based on your search volume. Otherwise the upfront $10/user seat costs in their current billing are hard to justify.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    As much as I like kagi, a paid search engine is a tough sell for public schools

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  • [–] 7 points 1 day ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 20 hours ago

    Kagi is the next "we got you" corpo that use "virtue signaling" to bring left-sided customers.

    Open-source something something, we value your privacy something something, come here, it's better than the alternative, something something... Do be Evil, haha!

    Same pattern, same pattern. Then, the next day:

    "We are so excited to announce we are raising our prices and we are changing on privacy policy to protect you BETTER".

    From there, do you recognize the song? I do.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    i saw the initial news and thought what am opportunity... Kagi didn't waste any time.

    i dont know that they made the deal hood enough. or made the argument early enough in that novel... but good for them.

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  • 3 comments in c/technology@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 0 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    As an educator (and Kagi subscriber), I find this post refreshingly on target. They should really cut schools a great deal, though, since schools have no money.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    They afforded chrombooks for every individual student, I dont expect they couldnt afford it. It would be cool if Kagi could cut them a deal. I just started using Kagi last week, I really like it.

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  • 3 comments in c/privacy@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Anybody here has recent experiences with Kagi? I just checked, and the 5$ plan with 300 searches still seems very limiting, not sure if I'm ready to pay 10$ per month for search

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 child)

    They're currently the best search engine - that's a fact.

    Whether or not that's something worth paying for will really depend on what kind of searches you do. Personally, I have found that most of my searches were pretty basic and could easily be found by using something like DDG(Bing), and if unsuccessful, Ecosia(Google). On top of that, they use Yandex. So I didn't feel they are worth it for me.

    I ended up paying 5 eur / month for Uruky. Cheaper, I really like the small team behind it and I'm supporting european, big-tech independent indexes, they're also really transparent.I wrote about them awhile back. One of the problems with Kagi is again you can never be sure where your money goes to, for all you know they might be using Bing and Google for 80% of your searches. They're no longer transparent and even removed all mentions of Yandex from their documentation.

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