My child is being punched at kindergarten by a girl who also continually does things to him. For example, putting soap on his chair, messing with his outdoor clothes, etc.

The teachers know and have talked to the girl's parents, but the behavior continues. My child is scared to go and cries about it sometimes. I'm not entirely sure how to handle it, because that's the teachers job and I'm not there to help or see it.

Eventually, I'm considering involving the police, but that seems pretty last resort.

Any suggestions?

Edit

The director and teachers are all aware of the issues

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[–] 27 points 1 week ago

What helped in some cases for me:

  1. There was a boy bullying our daughter on the playground so she didn't want to go, he was 5 and she 4 or so. One time I went there when his mother also was there and scolded him really loudly infront of everyone. The mom came running and said she will get her husband who does karate or whatever, I just told her to do it but if her son ever talkes to my daughter then I will deal with him if she can't.
  2. A girl was biting our son in Kindergarten so he would come home with bite marks, she was half a year smaller than him, he was about 3. We told the principal that we expect them to move this girl to at least a different group so she stops biting him, better that they remove her from that Kindergarten. It went a bit back and forth but then her parents moved her to a different Kindergarden.
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  • [–] 43 points 1 week ago

    If the responsible people are aware, in this case teachers, director and to a certain extend parents, but won't do anything, you did not cause enough discomfort for them to do something.

    I'd have another talk with the teacher and director and make it very clear that this issue won't stand. I'd explain to them again why this is urgent and lay out my next steps if this is not solved. Those next steps may involve consulting a lawyer regarding taking legal action, going up the ladder above the director, involving the responsible government organization etc.

    Make it clear that if they don't solve this problem they will get another 10 problems to solve very soon. Sometimes people need some extra good reasons to care for a problem that concerns someone else. Make it their problem.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 week ago* (2 children)

    So I used to bully a kid in kindergarten. I don't remember what I was doing at all or the kid even, but I do remember his dad confronting me in front of everyone.

    He didn't do anything mean, never raised his voice, all he did was calmly and repeatedly ask me why I was doing it and how it wasn't nice and all that. Just a straight talking to. I never bullied anyone after that.

    Kids are scared shitless of adults they don't know, you don't even have to scold them or be mean or anything.

    That being said, how the school is handling it is the bigger problem here.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago

    This is the way.

    This bully is too young to realize they're a bully, they're just copying whatever happens at home: which means the parents probably won't do shit.

    Showing (modeling) this child how to deal with conflict respectfully and peacefully will help both your child and the bully. It's exactly what the staff should be doing and perhaps they would in a less litigious society.

    You'll also likely find in the contract or terms of service for the provider that sustained bullying behaviour is grounds for termination of the placement which might be useful to point out to the director: you're not upholding your end of the contract. It's less dire than "I'll call my lawyer" but just close enough it might motive them.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 week ago

    Talk to other parents. There's a non-zero chance that your child is not the only one. Also, for children that young, a lot of the times such behaviour comes from negative home experiences - be it their own parents bullying them, or even just neglect (no corrections, guidance, etc), so you can't always expect help from the kid's parents. However, if you manage to get the involvement of other parent(s) then it becomes more serious, and hopefully will have the staff listen and act.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    I'd say principal/director is usually the step after a teacher isn't doing their job.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    I should have noted. The director is aware and part of the chain.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    I would escalate it then. There needs to be a solution for either separating them or punishing the offender or both. I'm surprised they haven't acted yet to be honest.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    It's the culture here. Very passive. Bullying rates are very high unfortunately.

    I'm going to keep pressure on the staff and karate in th meantime. Karate isn't about violence inherently. I did some martial arts and I hate fighting, but I also have decent situational awareness and can avoid a fight because of it.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    I'd recommend you make it top priority try to step in for your son here. No matter how hard, how passive or incompetent a principal is, or other parents... It's your obligation as a parent to safeguard your child from bodily harm. Children shouldn't be forced to fend for their own wellbeing at a mere 4 years of age. If any kind of fight is required to solve this, it should be you fighting on behalf of your son. Not a 4yo against both bullies and the entire world of adults not doing their job.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 week ago

    Can you get guidance counselors, or someone above the teacher involved? Maybe changing classrooms?

    It really is the teacher's responsibility to make the classroom a safe place, and if they aren't doing it, escalating the problem is the next step. You shouldn't be scared of school, and if you are, the administration has failed.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 week ago

    Coordinate with other parents. "she goes, or we go"

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  • one time i went to get my daughter from daycare, through the window i saw get getting hit, next to an adult reading a story. i came in, grabbed her stuff, took my sad daughter and never came back. no questions, no nothing, just called them to tell them why she won't be coming back. then changed daycares.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    What do you expect the police to do that the director and teachers can't do? Arrest the 5 year old girl?

    Does your child tell the teachers or other responsible adults about the bullying in the moment, or are they reporting it to you to then report the behavior after the fact? If your child is not reporting it to teachers when the bullying is happening, it's difficult for them to address it with the girl for it to have a meaningful impact.

    This girl will not be the only instance of confrontation your child experiences in life, so teaching them how to deal with it in general so they are prepared to handle it themselves will set them up for success.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    You can talk to the principal and ask to have your kid moved to a different class.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 week ago (38 children)
  • [–] 17 points 1 week ago (37 children)

    They're in kindergarten. Teaching to hit back shouldn't be so highly upvoted. Teaching boys to hit girls isn't going to repair his self esteem or his pride.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Personally, I'm in favor of karate because I think it could help my child block and avoid physical attacks. Plus the confidence of being able to handle a fight without panicking.

    Martial arts isn't always about escalating with more violence. Plus my son isn't violent and won't be punching anyone anytime soon, but being able to dodge/block is very cool.

    I fully agree that teachers should handle this, but they aren't.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago

    Karate is a great extracurricular. They aren't going to teach him to hit back to restore his pride or self-esteem like the other user pushed though. They'll help him build his self-esteem internally which will help with his emotional resilience.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 week ago (23 children)

    Unfortunately, we need to know how to defend ourselves from physical violence, no matter who is dealing it out.

    Having been bullied in school myself, I can also attest that it only stopped when I started fighting back.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (22 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (19 children)

    So four year olds shouldn't defend themselves from physical violence?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (18 children)

    They should be taught how to resolve conflict without hitting.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago (17 children)

    Based on what I've read here, I think that's been tried and doesn't work. Until it does, that four year old gets to go out in the world with fear, with the adults around seeming to be unable or unwilling to help.

    When my kids were younger, and had these very same troubles, I told them what I was doing that they might not have been able to see, and that they shouldn't start a fight but they had every right to finish one, and that I'd stand behind them if it came to that.

    Just having the confidence that they could defend themselves in the moment helped a lot.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (16 children)

    Sending a 4 year old out with the message that they can alleviate their fear by being violent only breeds more violence.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (15 children)

    I wish I lived in the ideal world that you live in.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    If they were 12 you might have a point, but at 5 kids are still malleable enough that teaching nonviolent conflict resolution is realistic and can have lasting impact

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    I previously mentioned that that's not working. Or if it's "going to take time" , the kid is getting punched on the regular until then.

    Yes, kids should learn to seek nonviolent solutions. They should also be taught not to allow other people to abuse them. Stopping or preventing such abuse may well require the judicious use of violence or the legitimate threat of it.

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  • I agree with your overall point about bullying, but you have to consider childhood development and the differing reasons that children at different ages resort to violence in the first place. At 5, the cause of the violence is more likely to be emotional deregulation and lack of impulse control - that doesn’t mean it should be allowed to continue, but there are realistic options for how to shut it down that don’t exist in the same way as with older kids.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (11 children)

    The world where girls and women are raped at extremely high rates by men? By violent men? By men that are taught that they can restore their pride and self-esteem by enacting violence on others?

    Yeah, come live in this world with me.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (10 children)

    I've never said anything about gender here.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 week ago (9 children)

    The original commentator that you're defending did.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (8 children)

    Okay so let's imagine it was a four year old girl getting bullied by a five year old boy. My position would be the same.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (7 children)

    She shouldn't be taught to hit back either! They're 4 years old

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago* (6 children)

    Again, in an ideal world you would be right. But that's not the world we live in. Yes, seek nonviolent solutions first. But pacifism only tells the bad people that they can abuse you with impunity.

    Which is exactly what's happening.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 week ago (5 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (4 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    And the teachers need to do something about that. Teaching this little boy to hit back when he's scared isn't going to solve the problem you think it is. It's going to cause more problems for that boy in his life.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago* (2 children)

    Right now he's being taught that hitting kids is okay because someone is hitting him and nothing is being done about it.

    You're right. He should just tell her that it makes him feel bad when she does that. That'll work.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (1 child)

    The adults need to take more action.

    It probably would work because small children are incredibly empathetic when you communicate effectively. They understand boo-boos and that they don’t like to be hit, so they shouldn’t hit. It takes patience and consistency. Something that violent people don’t have much practice in.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    The flip side is teaching him that he can't fight back when he's physically attacked and teachers aren't helping isn't great

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  • [–] -3 points 1 week ago* (4 children)

    Then pull him from the daycare if the director and the teachers refuse to protect your son.

    Why aren't you pressing the adults for more action here? Are you content to let them just be looped in and do nothing to protect your son?

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    Kindergarten is legally mandated and options are scarce. Plus a bunch of other mitigating circumstances

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    What does the director and teachers tell you about how they’re handling the situation?

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    They say they are talking to the bully's parents and monitoring the situation

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago

    I would press them for more intervention. Separate the kids when they're playing, watching them more closely, time outs for the instigator. Make it clear this is unacceptable moving forward and that it is impacting your son's ability to participate at school.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    Yes, please. "Fixing" someone by teaching them to practice violence has never solved anyone's problems in life. It'll just turn them into a person who also thinks violence is an adequate means. Pretty much like that other girl who obiously also learned violence gets her something. And currently they seem to be smarter than that, you don't want to drag them down and turn them into some potential bully as well?!

    I mean first of all it's the adults responsibility to fix this situation. They have to because it's unacceptable and it's their job. And furthermore, this should be about stopping(!) kids punching other kids, not add more punching to the mix. We really don't need more violence on this world and in future society.

    (And lastly this isn't even what they teach in karate club. Karate isn't about fighting other people. It's about personal growth and about you yourself.)

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Unless you're suggesting teaching kindergarten girls to hit boys will repair their self esteem or pride, im not sure why it's necessary to make gender a variable here.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    I didn’t make gender a variable, the parent comment that I replied to did.

    Kindergarteners shouldn’t be taught to hit back.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    You know what? that's fair.

    I entirely missed that comment, my bad.

    I don't think idealism against the idea of violence is the answer, given..you know....people, but i'm all for not making it the first port of call.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    Have you tried beating up the bullies father, maybe paying an older child to bully the bully?

    Or I guess you could talk to the bullies parent directly. Maybe ask them over to observe the childrens behavior, maybe try and "force" them to be friends?

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