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[–] 16 points 1 month ago (12 children)

You can't torture something without a consciousness. What a baity title for sure.

BRB torturing my chair.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    we aren't even sure where consciousness comes from. maybe your chair has a form of consciousness.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    Yes, but it's improbable and just another theory. But it's not possible to be completely sure so mayne your car tyres are conscious...

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    yeah, that's my point. what even is consciousness? what's the difference between the electrochemical signals in your brain and plausible future tech that can run those same signals inside transistors instead of meat?

    how can we be sure it's not you when it responds and acts exactly like you if installed inside your meat body?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    Sure, but then again, what are you going to do with the poor chair 😅, maybe it's consciousness isn't linked the same as ours (we have access to memory for example).

    So it's just there, feeling, experiencing. But then again, feeling and experiencing what?

    It sure is interesting, and so wildly complicated too.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago*

    causing a series of effective altruists and people who believe LLMs are sentient to beg GitHub to delete the project on the grounds that the AI is suffering

    This coming from the same people who argue "Any suffering and death we inflict on humanity today, developing technology, will be offset by the suffering and death that technology might prevent in the future.

    These people legit consider LLMs to be more human than humans.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Garbage in garbage out.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    The worst 'torture' would be to make their only task, their reason for existence, to pass you the butter at the breakfast table. Pickle Rick knows.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I have to question the morality of anyone who would even take the time to setup an LLM torture scenario.

    I have no trouble with the idea of intentionality trying to confuse and confound an LLM to protect my privacy, but I don't know that I would ever think of it in terms of torture for the LLM and thinking of it in that way seems a bit deranged.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    that is for sure a standpoint. i guess it scratches the same itch as producing / consuming horror media: observing and imagining horrible things, without any consequences or harm for the actors.

    i have no real interest in horror movies, but it surely is a genre for many different people.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    We already know that habitually using an LLM will weaken your critical thinking.

    It would not be surprising to learn that habitually abusing an LLM would weaken your empathy.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    There is no torturing though. If it was really conscious than sure I would agree with you but this is not the case. Would be more akiin to having my CPU run prime 95 for days on end. Harsh on the hardware, sure, but no moral / ethical issues in doing so.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    To be clear, I’m explicitly focusing on the moral subject here, not the object of their actions. When I say “abusing an LLM could injure the abuser’s humanity”, I’m making absolutely no claim about the LLM.

    As I said in the previous thread about this:

    LLMs aren’t conscious. They can’t feel pain.

    But you should treat them kindly. Because even in a consequentialist or deontological frame, your morals rely on developing good habits; but in virtue ethics, moral habits is really all there is.

    Edit: Very Bad Wizards actually covered this pretty well in this episode from 2018: https://verybadwizards.com/episode/episode-150-paul-bloom-insisted-that-we-talk-about-sex-robots

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Sex robots are anthropomorphic in ways LLMs are not, despite how they are coded to respond to us. I agree that treating a sex robot poorly could cause moral injury since it so closely resembles a real human / repeated abuse could cause conflict somewhere in the soul / psyche.

    I view "torturing LLMs" in the same way I might view taking on a pest, or dealing with an aggressive invasive species. I'm not losing sleep over the germs / pathogens I kill everyday by washing my hands, the invasive planta I keep from my yard, the termites / cockroaches I prevent against.

    The problem is torture is a loaded word because you associate it with something cruel we do to another living thing. These arnt living and thus can't be torturred so remove whatever moral concern you are worried about.

    Poisoning the model is just and there is no such thing as model welfare.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I'm not op but whether its torture is besides the point.

    If I'm spending six hours a day jerking off while talking to my LLM goonbot, then whether the model feels aroused by my narrative prose is not what my family and friends are worried about (hypothetically).

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