President Donald Trump has refused to attend the ceremony at Ground Zero marking the 25th anniversary of the Al Qaeda attack on the World Trade Center — reportedly because he wanted to deliver a speech, and the annual event has long barred remarks by politicians. Trump, a native New Yorker who has often employed 9/11 as a rhetorical device, will instead head to the Pentagon, which was also attacked that day, where he can rant, rave, bellow, and bemoan whatever he is worked up about. He may, in the process, also pay cursory tribute to the victims in an aside.

“We recall the light of America’s best and bravest and the love that they showed in their final moments,” Trump said during last year’s 9/11 remembrance at the Pentagon. That, however, was scripted pablum. It’s far more illustrative to “recall” Trump’s thoughts on the attack on the afternoon of September 11, 2001, when New Yorkers were united in grief. Well, most of them .

Asked about the Trump Building at 40 Wall Street during a live TV interview that clear and cloudless afternoon, Trump took the opportunity to tout the increased standing that his building had just gained from the devastating terrorist attack. Trump made certain to note that his building “actually, before the World Trade Center, was the tallest.” Like Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, Trump then took his own 9/11 victory lap. “When they built the World Trade Center, it became known as the second tallest,” he observed of 40 Wall Street. “And now it’s the tallest.” Like innumerable Trump statements in the 25 years since, it was callous and cringe-worthy and, of course, untrue. Nearby 70 Pine Street was actually taller.

Twenty-five years ago, I could not have imagined, as I watched the Twin Towers topple, that the New York real estate buffoon who used 9/11 to aggrandize his property’s height would become America’s president. And if you told me Trump’s supporters would attack the Capitol — something Al Qaeda tried and failed to do on 9/11 — to subvert the democratic process, that the insurrection would fail but that Trump would still be reelected, I would have laughed. But that and so much else came to pass, as the danger posed by Trump surpassed Al Qaeda and every other foreign threat to America. Bin Laden is long gone, but his spiritual successor remains ensconced in the White House. The Al Qaeda leader couldn’t have hoped for better.

— Nick Turse, editor of TomDispatch

If you haven’t yet, sign up to receive TomDispatch in your inbox here.

How Two Trust-Fund Terrorists Destroyed America

I can still remember the smell. But I’m at a loss to accurately describe it to you. It wasn’t the unmistakable odor of death, although that must have been some tiny part of it. It wasn’t like burning tires or plastic or even metal. It was all that, but it was more.

In the quarter century since, I’ve been all over the world, but I’ve never experienced anything like the smell near the rubble pile at Ground Zero in September 2001. The air was acrid and thick, a swirl of toxins and carcinogens made possible by turning two large, jet-fuel laden planes into cruise missiles and aiming them at gigantic office towers. As it burned, we all inhaled a haze of pulverized cement, glass fibers, asbestos, lead, dioxins, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, polychlorinated biphenyls (better known as PCBs), and whatever else. It remains a part of us still.

The 9/11 attacks — which killed almost 3,000 Americans, toppled New York City’s Twin Towers, wrecked the Pentagon, and took down a plane near Shanksville, Pennsylvania — marked the most devastating intelligence failure in U.S. history and sent the United States into a paroxysm of self-induced catastrophes from which it has never emerged. Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden’s spectacular coordinated assault supercharged what had been a slow-motion imperial decline, trapping the U.S. in a death spiral of ruinous intertwined economic debacles, foreign policy failures, democratic backsliding, authoritarianism, and debilitating wars and military interventions.

Bin Laden’s plan was to trap the U.S. in expensive, foreign quagmire wars that would trigger a domestic economic collapse. It was patterned on the strategy that the local mujahideen, he and other foreign fighters, and the U.S. and its allies had used to defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.

[

The 9/11 Wars -------------](/collections/the-911-wars/)

Not only does bin Laden’s strategy continue apace long after his 2011 death, but it also spawned an even more effective means of destroying America from within. Bin Laden’s attacks turned the U.S. government into an engine for the destruction of America, inducing it to implement policies that have devastated the country and immiserated its people. That includes unrestrained spending while cutting taxes on the rich, closer ties with despotic regimes, the sneak-and-peek warrants and roving wiretaps of the Patriot Act and other domestic surveillance programs, and the ruinous failed forever wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere.

This swirl of toxic policies and governmental overreach opened the door to something beyond bin Laden’s wildest dreams, the rise of an even more effective terrorist who has crippled the U.S. in countless ways and sought to strangle the best of the country: President Donald Trump.

Hijackers crashed planes into the Twin Towers at the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, in New York City. 
Photo: zz/Larry Le Vine/STAR MAX/IPx via AP Images

The so-called Pearl Harbor of the 21st century was no surprise. Long before President George W. Bush, while vacationing at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, received a classified intelligence memo titled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S,” the Al Qaeda leader had been honest about his plans. “The call to wage war against America was made because America has spear-headed the crusade against the Islamic nation,” he announced in a 1998 TV interview, castigating the U.S. for stationing troops in the Middle East and its support of Israel. “The Western regimes and the government of the United States of America bear the blame for what might happen. If their people do not wish to be harmed inside their very own countries, they should seek to elect governments that are truly representative of them and that can protect their interests.”

When bin Laden made good on his threats, slaughtering thousands on 9/11, he knew it was bound to trigger a response. One possibility was a measured law-enforcement action that would end with arrests and legitimate legal proceedings. The other was a president standing on a rubble pile, vowing revenge, a never-ending fruitless war against a tactic (terror), a secret torture gulag, a forever prison, and a kangaroo court. One would be ruinous for bin Laden. The other, an answer to his prayers.

Bin Laden’s masterstroke was to attack the U.S. after it had elected a lightweight nepo-baby president and a power-mad vice president who had cut his teeth in Richard Nixon’s criminal-packed White House. While he came to be an enemy of Donald Trump, it was Dick Cheney who paved the way for America’s current would-be tyrant, with the vice president’s relentless campaign to concentrate power in the White House, creating an imperial presidency predicated on the “unitary executive theory,” a misbegotten notion that the Constitution grants the president unrestrained authority over domestic and foreign policy, such as unilaterally removing government officials and waging wars.

“A lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly, without any discussion.”

In both style and substance, Cheney prefigured Trump. In the immediate wake of 9/11, Cheney went on TV to announce the government would now operate on the “dark side,” as he put it, claiming “a lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly, without any discussion.”

America has never emerged from those sinister shadows. Cheney was arguably the leading cheerleader for the ruinous war on terror, which began in Afghanistan, spread across the globe, and grinds on a year after his death; a prime architect of the disastrous Iraq War and the faulty, unverified, and cherry-picked intelligence that underpinned it; an enthusiastic supporter of torture, calling the waterboarding of detainees “a no-brainer”; a vocal supporter of domestic surveillance; a promoter of undemocratic, unprecedented, and unparalleled secrecy; and a belligerent bully.

[

Related

The Architects of the Iraq War: Where Are They Now?](https://theintercept.com/2023/03/15/iraq-war-where-are-they-now/)

“In our nation’s 246-year history, there has never been an individual who was a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump,” Cheney said in a 2022 ad for his daughter, Liz, one of 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump at the end of his first term. He might have been right — and he was certainly responsible. Trump has built on Cheney’s accomplishments and pushed America toward autocracy at an unprecedented rate.

After weakening American democracy during his first term, Trump launched a full-scale assault — literally — on it. Despite knowing he lost the 2020 presidential election, Trump refused to concede, worked to subvert vote counts and undermine the certification process, pressured state officials to “find” votes, and orchestrated what special counsel Jack Smith’s final report on it called an “unprecedented criminal effort” to remain in power.

Trump has built on Cheney’s accomplishments and pushed America toward autocracy at an unprecedented rate.

Bin Laden was never able to raise an army in America, lead an insurrection, and launch an attack on the U.S. Capitol. (The plane meant to carry out that attack on 9/11 crashed in rural Pennsylvania.) But on January 6, 2021, with Trump’s encouragement, his supporters stormed the Capitol. The House Select Committee that investigated the “domestic terrorist attack upon the United States Capitol Complex and issues relating to the interference with the peaceful transfer of power” concluded that Trump engaged in a “multi-part conspiracy to overturn the lawful results of the 2020 Presidential election.” It found that Trump, for hours, deliberately failed to act to stop his followers from attacking the Capitol. Smith said that the evidence gathered by his team “was sufficient to obtain and sustain a conviction at trial,” had the American people not reelected Trump.

Bin Laden would have no doubt cheered the attack on the Capitol and endorsed Trump’s reelection run, had he been alive. And he would not have been disappointed by the results. Upon returning to office, Trump unleashed a coordinated assault on American democracy, undermining the rule of law and fundamental freedoms by pardoning and rewarding insurrectionists; weaponizing the Justice Department, regulatory agencies, and the military against American citizens; firing government watchdogs; attacking the free press; engaging in naked and unrestrained corruption, such as violating the Constitution’s emoluments clause; engaging in due process violations, immigration lawlessness, and unconstitutional executive power-grabs; and launching a disastrous war with Iran and a murder-spree on the high seas amid a host of other foreign and domestic policy fiascos.

[

Related

The Supreme Court Ends Multiracial Democracy as We Know It](https://theintercept.com/2026/05/08/supreme-court-voting-rights-act/)

Since January 2025, there have been nearly 4,000 separate authoritarian acts by the Trump administration including around 1,050 undermining democracy, more than 940 suppressing dissent, over 650 aggressive or destabilizing foreign policy efforts, about 600 acts weakening civil rights, around 500 centered around controlling information or spreading misinformation, and more than 320 acts of corruption, according to the Trump Action Tracker, which documents acts and statements of Trump and his administration that echo those of other authoritarian regimes.

A startling global analysis also discovered “autocratization” in America rose at a speed “unprecedented in modern history” last year. Under Trump, the researchers found, the U.S. has ceased to be a functioning liberal democracy after the largest one-year drop in democratic principles in American history. This took the country back to 1965 levels, when Jim Crow racial discrimination in voting — including violence and intimidation, poll taxes, and literacy tests — were still commonplace. These results are bolstered by research by the nonprofit group Protect Democracy, which finds that the corrupting of elections, quashing of dissent, spreading of disinformation, and aggrandizing of executive power are all “escalating” in Trump’s second term, while both authoritarian actions and the politicizing of independent institutions in the U.S. are “rapidly escalating.”

[

Read Our Complete Coverage

TomDispatch -----------](/tomdispatch)

In 2001, the U.S. government recorded a budget surplus of about $128 billion and was projected to pay off the national debt by 2009. But after miring the U.S. in forever wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, and elsewhere, bin Laden looked upon the fruits of 9/11 and took a victory lap in 2004, bragging that his strategy of “bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy” had helped to push the U.S. deficit to “more than a trillion dollars.”

“All that we have to do is to send two mujahidin to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaida, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note,” bin Laden announced.

He could not have imagined just how closely and how long America’s leaders would hue to his plan, conducting commando raids, drone strikes, armed interventions, and outright wars in Afghanistan, Central African Republic, Cameroon, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Kenya, Lebanon, Libya, Mali, Niger, Pakistan, the Philippines, Somalia, Syria, Tunisia, Yemen, and elsewhere. Nor could Al Qaeda’s leader have foreseen how deep into financial ruin the U.S. would sink as a result.

Bin Laden’s 2004 trillion-dollar boast wasn’t actually accurate. The U.S. federal deficit was just $413 billion in 2004. But it wouldn’t remain that low for long. America’s post-9/11 wars have now cost or caused long-term obligations to taxpayers of an astonishing $8 trillion, according to a 2021 analysis by Brown University’s Costs of War Project.

[

Related

Trump’s War on Iran Could Cost Trillions](https://theintercept.com/2026/03/17/trump-iran-war-cost/)

And Trump has continued to expand America’s ruinous foreign interventions from Ecuador to Iran. An Intercept analysis found that Trump has presided over more than 20 armed conflicts and wars during his two terms in office. And the costs continue adding up. Linda Bilmes, a former assistant secretary and chief financial officer of the U.S. Department of Commerce and currently a public policy professor at the Harvard Kennedy School, previously told The Intercept that the excessive expenses of the Iran war, alone, would likely reach into the trillions of dollars. And Trump is also currently pushing for a post-World War II record $1.6 trillion Pentagon budget for next year.

“The Trillion Dollar War Machine,” by William D. Hartung and Ben Freeman Available at Bookshop.org.

In case you hadn’t guessed, the pre-9/11 projection that the national debt would be paid off in 2009 never came to pass. Instead, the Bush and Trump presidencies were marked by massive tax cuts that mostly benefited corporations and the wealthiest Americans, depriving the Treasury of almost $10 trillion in expected revenue.

So after bin Laden’s attack; the forever wars of Bush, Barack Obama, Trump, and Joe Biden; and Trump’s contributions in disastrous conflicts and gross fiscal mismanagement, the $5.8 trillion national debt of 2001 has now ballooned by 590 percent to a staggering $40 trillion. That’s $1 million, 40 million times over.

About 50 percent of the debt has been accrued since Donald Trump was first elected. This week, Trump pledged to pay every American adult $5,000 if Republicans keep control of Congress in November, which would cost more than $1 trillion. And that $128 billion budget surplus from 2001? It’s been replaced by a projected federal budget deficit for this fiscal year of $2.1 trillion. This debt and deficit spiral is also occurring during a time of near-full employment when the government’s finances should actually be improving.

If bin Laden made it to paradise, as was his hope, he is no doubt smiling as the Trump administration dismisses the ballooning debt and the president peddles nonsensical claims that “growth will take care of that very easily.” The U.S. will actually spend more than $1 trillion this year just paying interest on the debt. The Peterson Foundation projects that total interest payments will more than double over the next decade — and that may be an undercount. And even if the debt remained steady at $40 trillion and the United States were to pay down $1 million per day, it would take almost 110,000 years to pay it off.

All this debt is also likely to keep interest rates high, raising the cost of mortgages, auto loans, credit cards, and small business credit, hurting ordinary Americans. High deficits and debt — particularly if coupled with high inflation or interest rates — make it harder for the government to respond to crises like a recession, depression, pandemic, or other emergency.

Then there is the weakened safety net that comes from deficits and debt. Bin Laden doesn’t need to worry about his golden years, and Trump is living them right now at taxpayer expense. But in 2032 — just six years from now — the Social Security trust fund is on track to go bust, to take one example of shortfalls on the horizon. By law, when the trust fund hits zero, all retirees’ benefits are mandated to drop by more than 20 percent.

Looking back, I’ve come to think of the acrid odor of the collapsed Twin Towers as more than a mélange of burning paper, glass, concrete, and around 70 carcinogens. It was, instead, a harbinger of something even darker than the nearly 3,000 Americans who died on 9/11 — a long road of death and destruction stretching out into the future, beyond the vanishing point.

Even Bin Laden couldn’t have imagined long-term lethality of his attacks. Close to 9,700 first responders, survivors, and those who helped to clear nearly 1.8 million tons of debris at the World Trade Center have died of illnesses tied to 9/11, according to the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund. And more than 57,000 first responders and others have been diagnosed with 9/11-linked cancers. Around 155,000 people have enrolled in the World Trade Center Health Program, which provides care and health monitoring to people who were exposed to toxic air after 9/11. And an estimated 400,000 people were exposed to toxic contaminants, the risk of physical injury, and physically and emotionally stressful conditions in the days, weeks, and months following the attacks, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

[

Related

25 Years After 9/11, Muslims Are Still Politicians’ Favorite Scapegoat](https://theintercept.com/2026/09/04/911-muslim-islamophobia-terrorist/)

The vengeful war on the world that bin Laden managed to provoke has proved even more devastating than the effects of the toxic stew we inhaled near Ground Zero. An estimated 940,000 people were killed by direct post-9/11 war violence in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, and elsewhere between 2001 and 2023, alone. Another 3.6 to 3.8 million people are estimated to have died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones, bringing the toll to at least 4.5 million dead and counting. This quarter century of carnage and all that it unleashed has left the U.S. hollowed out and rotting from within; a deterioration in every conceivable measure from economics to democratic ideals to the spiritual health of the nation.

Bin Laden’s bleed-until-bankruptcy plan was designed to sink America’s economy — and it continues to work to great effect. And by ushering in the presidencies of Donald Trump, bin Laden left the United States morally bankrupt, too. Twenty-five years after 9/11, the country is a pale shadow of the superpower that emerged from World War II having been laid low not by the Soviet Union — the nuclear-armed power it long considered an existential threat — but by two trust-fund terrorists: the scions of a Saudi construction empire, and an outer borough New York City real estate developer, respectively.

“The wise man doesn’t squander his security, wealth, and children for the sake of the liar in the White House,” bin Laden said in 2004, referring to Bush. He likely couldn’t have imagined America choosing an even more inveterate liar, an even greater intellectual lightweight, and an even more ruinous president. A quarter century after 9/11, it’s clear that bin Laden won. But the victory was not his alone. And, in the end, his role in it turned out to be vanishingly small. Bush, Cheney, Obama, and Biden, as well as a raft of politicians, government functionaries, and all who went along with the madness unleashed by the attacks, played key roles in helping hobble the U.S. in the 25 years since the September 11. But it’s been Trump, more than anyone else, who has made bin Laden’s lofty 9/11 dreams America’s never-ending nightmare.

The post Osama Bin Laden Won appeared first on The Intercept.


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[–] 64 points 1 month ago (2 children)
  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago
    [–] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    With friends like these you don't need terrorists.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 month ago (31 children)

    I keep seeing this article reposted all over Lemmy and I feel like I need to comment on it.

    I remember 9/11. I was a senior in high school when it happened. After the dust settled (so to speak), the common explanation for the attacks was that Osama Bin Laden wanted Americans to be enraged at the local attack on our soil and rise up against Bush Jr. and the government. Potentially overthrowing him and replacing him with a less warmongering leader who stayed out of Middle East affairs.

    That never happened. In fact, the opposite happened. An attack on our soil turned Americans super patriotic and we became even more involved in the Middle East. We were so blindly enraged, we went after any foreigners who supported the attacks. And our government used it as an excuse to raid the Middle East of resources (oil, in particular).

    We started a war with Iraq (which had nothing to do with Osama Bin Laden, a Saudi Arabian), and after ousting their leader, we turned our attention to hunting down Osama hiding in Afghanistan with the Taliban. And we spent the next 2 decades heavily involved in Middle East affairs. Instead of staying out of their politics, we instead tried to push our own on them, promoting Democracy everywhere we set up camp. I know; I was in the US military during that time and served in Iraq briefly in 2007.

    And no, I didn't sign up because of 9/11. I already had a contract to join the US Air Force, which I had signed in August 2001. A month later, 9/11 happened and I thought, 'Shit. I'm gonna die in some foreign war now.' Thankfully, that never happened, but I wasn't proud of our government's response to the attack and our foreign involvement since.

    Osama Bin Laden's attack on America has led to our downfall as a country, as our response led to more invasive government policies that took away our rights in favor of security. But as far as Osama's goal for attacking us? He completely failed, and it eventually ended with him hunted across the globe as America's most wanted terrorist, and eventually dead and buried at sea. He greatly underestimated our culture and how revenge-prone we'd be.

    I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall, but from what I can read, this article doesn't seem to remember history correctly. Osama simply wanted a regime change, not the entire collapse of America. He was just trying to incentivize Americans to start a revolution, not understanding how blindly loyal we were to our country at that point in history, and how strongly we'd defend it from foreign attacks.

    Osama may have been deeply involved in politics and pissed off at America's involvement in the Middle East. But the average American was completely blind to politics back then, having no real knowledge of what our government was up to. 9/11 woke up a lot of people, but our involvement in politics was misguided and quickly redirected away from what our government was up to, and instead what our government was doing in retaliation. We focused on the wrong politics for far too long and let our government take advantage of the confusion to restrict our rights and assert more power and control instead. And we've been on a steady decline ever since.

    To this day, even with a dictator-wanna-be as our president, we still haven't started a revolution and overthrown our own government. And we have WAY more incentive to do it today than we ever did in the early 2000s. Osama completely failed in his goal; Americans just aren't used to fighting against their own government. Not since the Civil War, anyway, and no one alive today lived through that. We've been too fat and happy in our lives these past 161 years, and our government, on both sides of the aisle, are very careful to promote peaceful discourse instead of violent revolution. Unless Trump isn't getting his way, then he's all about violent revolution in his favor (see: Jan 6th attacks).

    We're so focused on peaceful discourse that politicians have learned no consequences will come their way if they break laws, especially if they can pay their way out of it. So we're stuck in this situation where we need a revolution to change the current system, but nobody wants to be the martyr to start it. And what few people have actually attempted to start something have been quickly demonized and punished/killed (see: Luigi, the Trump "assassination" attempts, etc.).

    Our media is blindly loyal to the government and true journalism is dead in our country, so most Americans aren't getting actual news anymore. And our lives are disrupted, but not completely unlivable yet. We're still limping along with a promise of a better day coming. Americans haven't hit that point of hopelessness where risking death for government change is worth it to them yet. So for now, our dictator government, which is still heavily involved in Middle East affairs, persists while we do practically nothing about it. Osama Bin Laden lost.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Osama Bin Laden’s attack on America has led to our downfall as a country, as our response led to more invasive government policies that took away our rights in favor of security.

    That was exactly his objective. We know, because he straight-up said so in a number of interviews. That was his goal for attacking us, and we have responded exactly as he foresaw. This article (which is easy to read by clicking the Reader Mode button in Firefox) correctly remembers that he knew that the attack would inflame American jingoism, and lead to imperial overreach and eventual self-induced collapse. The idea that he was seeking "regime change" sounds like empty-headed Bush administration projection, since he was playing the long game, and even expected to be a martyr himself before it ended.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago

    The USA is at the end of its ability to project hegemonic power in the middle east.

    That was more the objective than causing a revolution in the USA, although that revolution (away from christo-capitalism) may be about to occur anyways.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    We started a war with Iraq (which had nothing to do with Osama Bin Laden, a Saudi Arabian), and after ousting their leader, we turned our attention to hunting down Osama hiding in Afghanistan with the Taliban.

    It was the other way around. Afghanistan first. After routing the talibans Bush turned to Iraq

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  • [–] 33 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

    But as far as Osama’s goal for attacking us? He completely failed,

    I don't know where you're getting your information, but it sounds pretty nonsensical. Osama thought that attacking the US would make the populace overthrow the government? Attacking a country only leads to people unifying behind their government. Every country in the world that has been bombed by the United States knows that. The only people who don´t know that run the United States Air Force.

    The story I understand, that makes a lot more sense, is that Osama bin Laden wanted to drag the United States into a land war that would drain its resources and galvanize the Islamic world into uniting against the US. The results were mixed, I'd say, definitely not a "complete failure." The US committed to a 20-year-war in Afghanistan that it lost, and a separate war in Iraq which it "won", but at great cost. But it did completely fail to unify the Islamic world against the US; though ISIS was definitely an expression of that, ME governments stay aligned with the US.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    I don't know where you're getting your information, but it sounds pretty nonsensical.

    Quoted from my comment above:

    I know; I was in the US military during that time and served in Iraq briefly in 2007.

    Personal experience working for the US government. It was a common news thread at the time, and our government was afraid of people learning more about Osama's specific intentions. Sure, there was a lot more to it, but the main story our government wanted squashed was the idea of revolution. They worked hard to redirect our attention toward revenge on the attackers instead of questioning why they attacked us in the first place. They didn't want the public poking into what our government was doing that justified an attack on our nation, and they definitely didn't want anyone showing sympathy to any degree for Osama.

    Again, Americans were politically blind back them. We had no idea what foreign affairs our government was up to at the time, or what atrocities we might be committing in the Middle East. This brought a warfront to our front door and got the average citizen involved in worldly affairs overnight. Our government found themselves suddenly needing to control the narrative and refocus our anger at the scenario that played out in our own backyard, as well as those involved. We put a target on Osama's back once he claimed responsibility for 9/11, and that became the headline for every news story going forward.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    Americans knew. At least the ones that gave a shit. There were protests and fights every year over bullshit the government was doing.

    Sounds like maybe you didn't know? And once in the military they had their propaganda for you.

    You really didn't hear people talking about all the devastation the US brought to do many people for decades? People are still dying to this day in the country that had more bombs dropped on it than used in all of WW2, and the US wasn't even at war with them!

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    In other words, you've got personal anecdotes, not anything of substance.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Osama’s manifesto is available on the web. We have a first person source for his motivation and goals.

    Hint: It had nothing to do with triggering a revolution in the US

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  • [–] -5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Yes, sweetie, that's how I know this internet rando doesn't know what he's talking about.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    Why are you condescending to someone who just provided receipts to support your own position...? Hes supporting your argument with more substantiation than you had, why act like hes a dickhead for helping you build your case? 😅

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (14 children)

    Another poorly informed US terrorist writing a 10 paragraph comment without knowing what he is even talking about.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (13 children)

    Another anonymous commenter who believes that anyone who worked for the US government blindly supports everything they do. Real life is more complicated than that.

    I'm actually very anti-US government right now. I specifically retired because I had spent years advocating for a different direction than our government was heading, and being involved in military/politics wasn't enough to enact change at my level. I'm an activist nowadays and believe that revolution is probably the only way we're going to actually change our government for the better.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    Once again. You are an ignorant terrorist.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2004/11/1/full-transcript-of-bin-ladins-speech

    All that we have mentioned has made it easy for us to provoke and bait this administration. All that we have to do is to send two mujahidin to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaida, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies.

    This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the mujahidin, bled Russia for 10 years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat.

    All Praise is due to Allah.

    So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (10 children)

    And you're a typical Lemmy asshole.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    Read your own comment back to yourself

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (8 children)

    I'm not the one calling people terrorists. I'm only calling you an asshole for behaving like one typically found on Lemmy. I'm surprised you have a problem with people calling you names you don't think you deserve. Maybe you should learn from that.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    They participated in worlds largest terror organisation without taking a moment of time to understand they people they oppressed.

    You talk like you have a moral highground while you defend mass murder and terrorism. Disgusting.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

    Not as much as you do, clearly, because you think you know someone EVEN THOUGH they're telling you how they've changed since. The audacity and the arrogance.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

    They have not taken a second to understand those they oppressed. Their arrogance led them to write a 10 paragraph essay without basic research. They have changed nothing and their change is worth nothing but futile words.

    Your arrogance is extreme.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I’m actually very anti-US government right now.

    Bitch, please. Do you realize what that sentence means? No, because you decided to shit on them anyway, mean girl. The arrogance is indeed extreme.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    It means they want free healthcare.

    Which they will not be getting because they have participated in the very same imperialism they claim to be against, and now the USA is in decline just as Bin Laden predicted.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Listen to yourself, dude. 😂

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  • [–] -2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    The article was a more accurate account than whatever you copy pasted from ChatGPT, sunshine.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    You kids and your AI bullshit. Back in my day, we wrote proper discourse, with full paragraphs, proper sentence structure, and lengthy diatribe. You could learn a thing or two if you stopped letting machines write your retorts. Now get off my lawn! 😉

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  • [+] -7 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    This is silly. Bin Laden's plan was that 9/11 was going to scare the US into withdrawing from the Middle east just as the Soviets had ghosted Afghanistan. Spoiler: that didn't happen. If 9/11 kicked off America's decline, it's not because Bin Laden was doing some 4/D chess; he got lucky.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (3 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.

    Either way it was a bad plan and did not work at all, probably made it worse

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    All that we have mentioned has made it easy for us to provoke and bait this administration. All that we have to do is to send two mujahidin to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaida, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies.

    This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the mujahidin, bled Russia for 10 years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat.

    All Praise is due to Allah.

    So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah.

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  • 17 comments in c/usa@midwest.social view that post
    [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Dude sitting in car is considered a credible source these days?

    Anyway. You don't need to make up a conspiracy theory when a much simpler explanation exists.

    US intelligence forces probably let it happen. When they could have stopped it. All so they could get the surveillance state they wanted.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Can you really claim a victory if your opponent was going willingly bring themselves into expensive foreign quagmire wars regardless?

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  • [+] -8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (14 children)

    But after miring the U.S. in forever wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, and elsewhere, bin Laden looked upon the fruits of 9/11 and took a victory lap in 2004, bragging that his strategy of “bleeding America

    From all the evidence I've seen, it's more likely 9/11 was an inside job from the Bush administration and Mossad than Osama Bin Laden.

    Edit: you can continue to downvote me considering it's meaningless numbers anyway but here is a source where someone discusses all of the inconsistencies in multiple videos.

    You'd have to be a bot, shill or braindead to actually believe the official story from one of the most corrupt capitalist empires in modern history.

    Between the ex CIA director being involved with property and put options the day before the event, the wealthy Israeli billionaires not being in the trade towers on the one day that this happened and spent every other day there; mossad agents caught taking photos and cheering as the towers came down that same day, tower 7 that just randomly falling too.

    And just a little bit more evidence here

    And someone else discussing about all the things that don't add up.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    You'd have to be a bot, shill or braindead to actually believe the official story from one of the most corrupt capitalist empires in modern history.

    Fair point but have you considered that the "sources" you shared are from Instagram which have no structural reason to be honest with you.

    You're right, they lie about stuff all the time, but the way you make your case is lacking.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 months ago

    I have thought that, but throughout the years, I've heard these same stories from different media groups, questioned by various institutions, and these people I linked (who back up their videos with news headlines from the time, newspaper articles from different sources) who are much more knowledgeable on the topic raised serious questions that were never answered.

    It just seems like too much of a coincidence when the official narrative is even more lacking in answers than the CIA/Mossad plot theories. And since when has society just decided "we said it's Osama and terrorists. Nobody is allowed to ask further questions or its a conspiracy and any plot holes need to be ignored".

    And you're right, the case is a bit lacking, but I'm not here saying it's definitely a conspiracy, I'm just saying I've heard different perspectives that makes way more sense than the narrstive spread by the corrupt capitalist empire that had all the reasons to go into the middle east.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    Saudis are more likely the ones plotting... many saudi nationals were funding Al‐queda. Bin laden was saudi... so were 15 of the 19 terrorists were saudi. And who benefits when the US comes and cripples neighboring nations oil industry? Of course the CIA interfered with many FBI investigations, so noone can really be sure. 🤔

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

    Humanity is so fucked lol. This person probably votes.

    You're presented with well-written, long-form journalism including citations, and you respond with instatrash and think you've "won."

    The person who wrote this article actually thought this shit out, dude. They synthesized information like an adult, and used that information to construct views and arguments.

    Fuck your Instagram conspiracy bullshit.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 months ago* (5 children)

    Are you kidding me? This is your retort to multiple people bringing sources? Holy shit you must be one of the dumbest motherfuckers on this planet.

    You're right, we are absolutely fucked because smooth-brained morons like yourself cant actually think past the narrative they're told. As soon as a single question comes up, your two-celled brain short-circuits and just starts spurting shit.

    You're right, I do vote and vote for progressive leftist politicians because only a fucking dumpster fire of a human would vote for conservative or right-wing politicians.

    Grow the fuck up you bottom-feeding loser.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Except you're one person, and your "source" is Instagram.

    Had you actually read this article (or honestly any reality-based analysis of 9/11 over the past 25 years) you'd come to the same conclusion that the author so very obviously reaches: it wasn't an inside job because it didn't have to be. They just let it happen.

    That's the "conspiracy" and it's right there in the fucking open. Nobody needs to click on your dumbass Zuck links to get there.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    You dumb fucks really have a room temp IQ hey.

    Also, your photographs are dogshit lol you should be embarrassed.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Well that's certainly a reasonable response to valid criticism

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    Valid criticism? You're a joke.

    Instead of actually looking at the links and checking sources, you started by throwing ad hominems and not even actually trying to explain any of the serious fallacies in the narrative.

    It's more likely you're all just scum Zionists and genocide lovers who would rather sling shit than actually engage in any meaningful way.

    Go touch grass, eat shit, and have the day you deserve.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago*

    Instead of actually looking at the links and checking sources

    My sibling in Satan this all began with you commenting on an article you clearly didn't even bother to read, why should anyone click on anything you post in response to it.

    you started by throwing ad hominems

    So I was going to just quote back all fifteen of the ad hominems you've used in this comment chain alone, but it's frankly too much effort. My favorite was the comment about my photography🤣 Did I seriously hurt your lil fee-fees so much you had to go through my post history so you could downvote all of it? Bro nobody cares it's fucking lemmy lol.

    Have a good life

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    it’s more likely 9/11 was an inside job from the Bush administration

    The plot was underway long before Bush took office, before even the presidential election and Bush's nomination. It'd make more sense to claim it was an inside job by the Clinton administration but sure, whatever, gotta parrot the tired conspiracy.

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