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[–] 53 points 2 months ago (6 children)

It's funny because I agree and disagree at the same time. I've had varying levels of "there's way more nuance to this" and "how the fuck is everyone complicating this???" throughout my life and have generally come to the conclusion that it's much more complex than that in that everything is both more nuanced and more simple at the same time because politics really is that stupid.

However, in getting involved in political circles and actually getting to know some legitimate decision makers toward the top, some of these fuckers are way more stupid than we think. Like, alarmingly so. I've had moments where some GOP dumbfuck is doing some evil shit and I'm like "I don't think they're doing this maliciously" and some of my more partisan left-ish friends get all offended think I'm defending them, when really it's so much worse; they're doing it because they're legitimately really fucking stupid... and they're part of world leadership. Don't get me wrong, some of them are both stupid and an asshole, but at the end of the day, people in general tend to get the overall picture of politics wrong because it's way more nuanced in how fucking stupid it is.

One more fun thought for y'all: many of the really dumb legislators I've met in the past predate the current GOP alignment. And you see how much dumber the current GOP is versus the GOP of not even a decade ago? Well...

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  • [–] 30 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    This is the truth I see as well. I'm around a lot of upper crust events, old money decision maker millionaires. I'm taking pictures so I overhear a lot I probably shouldn't, literally the fly on the wall.

    They are not doing things maliciously on purpose. It's more like what George Carlin said, it's a club and we ain't in it. They are ignorant to what the upper middle-class and below actually do and they really don't care to learn or can't grasp it. They do things based more on their perspectives in an echo chamber. They don't make friends outside that circle.

    Ask them a basic question from highschool science and they will respond with a very wrong answer with absolute confidence. I've met homeless people on the street with more intelligence.

    You have to experience things or work for them to gain any knowledge.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    Most politicians do evil shit because the system of capitalism compels them to. There is no way to “win” capitalism without being evil. If you aren’t willing to do whatever it takes to win, you will inevitably be eaten by someone who is.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago

    I think it comes from the realization that dispels so many assumptions you didn’t know you had.

    The realization that nobody knows what they are doing.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence becomes, 'Why not both?'.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

    There are material conditions to causing the actions which people think of as evil. Material conditions explain virtually everything about the actions of humans within capitalism. "We can't possibly know how people do evil things, they just are naturally evil in an unexplained way" is just admitting you don't know what material conditions would cause evil actions to happen. That is a *you* problem if you feel the same. You need to learn about dialectical materialism if you agree with their line of thought. This is your brain when you are ignorant of the incentives capital, both fiduciary and non-fiduciary kinds, does within capitalist societies.

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  • So capitalism is a problem for everyone in the world, but there's something more fundamental happening in the US. Capitalism is just an excuse, but people really do not give a fuck about their communities in the US, or at least a small minority do care. 90% of people of all walks of life, they just wanna make a million dollars and they won't flinch to kill a neighbor for it. Hell, half of them won't flinch to kill a family member for a million bucks.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Yes, it's human made causes, not supernatural, so of course they need human made solutions. Like human trafficking and infections will not get fixed by incantations, but can be fixed with data-backed solutions. Use Sagan's baloney detection kit to figure out what has backing and peer reviewed, and is best for healthy, happy humanity of the majority, no just the wealthy owners.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    Oh I kinda hate this attitude. Like shit, even evil has lots of nuance to it. And understanding that nuance can help you oppose it, or protect yourself from it.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    True, but at a certain point the time and attention diverted into the nuances within evil becomes a big component of the banality part.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    Yes, that certain point isnt anywhere near where we're currently at.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago

    ya like I remember reading this one comment that talked about how people were not examining the LGNTQIA+ Ban in Niger with nuance.

    Like listen I get it The Nigerien People are being evil by issuing and enforcing that ban , AND YES I dont think that anyone who reads this comment should not give aid to, advocate for or go to Niger but you have to understand where they are coming from. BAck when americans and french were occupying the government of Niger with a Nigerien puppet government(and the puppet government was there MOSTLY to conduct Unequal Exchange Trade Deals) there were a lot of new , western ideas thst were forced onto the Nigerien people like seeing 2SLGBTQIA+ peoples as just part of the Common People...but the problem with this is that the averahe Nigerien person grew up around people where very conservative ways of thinking were the norm. Conservative ideas like 'if you let the gays live or cooperate with them you and your family will be cursed. Or youll magicaly get 'gayed' yourself.' Heck people in the country of Nigeria the next country over think the same way. Ive been to Nigeria and my relatives live there too and most of them ive talked to have this very conservative way of thinking sadly. So the puppet government was outting ideas on the people which were not widely held by the people there. So when the Nirgerien military couped out the puppet government and replaced it with a russian-backed puppet government , and we all know how anti-2SLGBTQIA+ the russians are, THATS what made it possible flr an anti-2SLGBTQIA+ law to be passed and enforced theee for so easily. But a lot of this current backwardness in Africa can be originated from the times of both Caliphate and European colonialism. The cultural and economic developments of most Africans was stunted by these invasions , kidnapping, emslavement, resource milking, and the unequal exchanges that occurred during these times. Most Africans therefore see it as almost impossible to live side-by-side in peace witj either europeans or even with Muslims (thats why there is a lot of Christian vs. Muslim conflict in Africa). And we can all conclude that if Africans find it tough to live beside peaceful Christians , Muslims or europeans they damn as well sure see it as being tough to live beside peaceful people who live with their gender identitiies and sexualities in ways that were rarely seen as common amongst Africans even 2 or 3 decades ago.

    Think about what the averahe African person has been through over the past millenia or two...The average Christian, Muslim , or European that the average African person has encountered whether in the past and maybe even today is one who was hostile to them so of course the Africans eventually have developed a distrust of them and of many outsiders. So of course they have developed a general distrust of ALL outsiders even people who try to live by or bring in from foreign lands these ideas or things related to being 2SLGBTIQIA+

    Norman Finklestein said the same thing about why he supported the Houthis sven though the slogan of the Houthis was '[REDACTED] to all Americans, [REDACTED] To All Jews'. Normam basically said: 'Think about the average Houthi person. Think about what the average Houthi person has been through over the last few centuries. Think abiut the average type of Jew oe average type of american that a Houthi has encountered. .... the average Houthi has only encountered Jews and americans that have blown up their families, their pets , their spouses and their children. So OF COURSE theyre gonna have animosity towards most americans and most jews. But wjen you think very carefully about it the slogans of the Houthis is completelt irrelevant to what they do today. The Houthis are slowing down the Genocide in Palestine through thwir blockade and missiles . If there was a group that back in the 30s and 40s were slowing down the Holocaust but their slogan was something stupid like 'Everyone Should Drink Farts' do you think we would give a flying fuck about their stupid slogans? No! Of course not. The Houthis have a stupid slogan ya I get it. But its irrelevant. Theyre doingg what they oughta be doing which is stalling a Genocide so I dont really have to care about how smart or dumb or excluse or inclusive their slogans are'

    TLDR. Both evil and good have A LOOOOT of nuance because humans are very nuanced , emotional , and illogical creatures. Humans are simulfaenously the smartest and the stupidest species Ive ever encountered .

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    What an insipid thought.

    Hurting bad people is good. Helping bad people is bad. We need to do a lot more hurting bad people as a society.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Maga translation: "kill the gays"

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Leftist translation: invite the Nazis to a piano recital.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

    I'll give you that. Leftists in America are centrists capitalist Democrats with colorful fascist like beliefs, but definitely not Nazis

    Edit: I forgot the /s, sarcasm can be hard to tell. I think Biden was Trump just DNC approved

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    only problem is that most modern socieites reward you for helping bad people or actively help bad people ( THATS why we have so many shitty politicians in so many high places) and punishes you for ALL the hurt thst you conduct against people , whether they be gopd or bad.

    "Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope.'" -- George Carlin

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    1994 Simpsons (so i guess their writers in 1993)

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago
    [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    I actually think it’s more based on greed but yeah same.

    Well that and racism.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    It’s nuance but yeah they are in the same family.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I want you to point out a single time where greed was a net positive.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago

    Greed is just a motivator. The word can is important here. It can lead to innovation and, sometimes, make the world better. I think that is the exception more than the rule, though. Most of the time, unchecked greed leads to awful behavior that enshittifies and hurts everything it touches. Ford is one example of the nuance. While Ford did not invent the assembly line, it helped refine and scale the moving assembly line into what we now think of as modern mass manufacturing. That let Ford build cars faster and cheaper, which had a huge effect on manufacturing in general.

    The higher wages are another complicated part of it. Ford’s famous $5 day came with an eight-hour shift, not longer hours, but it was not just because Ford suddenly cared about workers. The assembly line was miserable, turnover was extremely high, and paying people more was a way to keep enough workers around to make the whole system function. It was good for the workers in some ways, but it was still motivated by making more money. And Ford’s “Sociological Department” was invasive as hell, since the company was looking into workers’ personal lives and deciding who qualified for the full pay.

    But no, I am not remotely pro-billionaire. If anything, I am pretty firmly the opposite. I just do not think every situation is completely black and white. Self-interest can occasionally result in something broadly useful, even when the person doing it is not especially good and the system around it is still harmful. That does not make greed good. It just means the outcome and the motive are not always the same thing.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    after a stint at ministry of education i'm convincing you don't even need to be evil or stupid to cause catastrophic consequences. that's baked into the institutions themselves.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Humanity is perhaps the most valuable blessing and cursed atrocity ever conceived on this big ROUND GEOSPHERE earth.

    (Note the All Caps)

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Careful, this is his conservatives think too… othering people can be dangerous if you don’t do the ground work to understand why you think what you do. Metacognition is required

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago*

    As a video I watched the other day says, "it's that simple"

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    To be fair, trump cleared a lot of this up for us.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    A lot of people are stupid, and there are a lot of people with anti-social personality disorders out there willing to manipulate stupid people.

    Fixed

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Me as a teenager: Someday, reality television is going to destroy the world.

    Me in my 20s: That was a silly thing to think. People like different things, and there's good in everyone.

    Me now: A reality TV star is literally destroying the world.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    What’s that bell curve meme? One end “people are stupid”, middle “people are complicated”, far end “people are stupid.”

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    e I remember reading this one comment that talked about how people were not examining the LGNTQIA+ Ban in Niger with nuance.

    Like listen I get it The Nigerien People are being evil by issuing and enforcing that ban , AND YES I dont think that anyone who reads this comment should not give aid to, advocate for or go to Niger but you have to understand where they are coming from. BAck when americans and french were occupying the government of Niger with a Nigerien puppet government(and the puppet government was there MOSTLY to conduct Unequal Exchange Trade Deals) there were a lot of new , western ideas thst were forced onto the Nigerien people like seeing 2SLGBTQIA+ peoples as just part of the Common People...but the problem with this is that the averahe Nigerien person grew up around people where very conservative ways of thinking were the norm. Conservative ideas like 'if you let the gays live or cooperate with them you and your family will be cursed. Or youll magicaly get 'gayed' yourself.' Heck people in the country of Nigeria the next country over think the same way. Ive been to Nigeria and my relatives live there too and most of them ive talked to have this very conservative way of thinking sadly. So the puppet government was outting ideas on the people which were not widely held by the people there. So when the Nirgerien military couped out the puppet government and replaced it with a russian-backed puppet government , and we all know how anti-2SLGBTQIA+ the russians are, THATS what made it possible flr an anti-2SLGBTQIA+ law to be passed and enforced theee for so easily. But a lot of this current backwardness in Africa can be originated from the times of both Caliphate and European colonialism. The cultural and economic developments of most Africans was stunted by these invasions , kidnapping, emslavement, resource milking, and the unequal exchanges that occurred during these times. Most Africans therefore see it as almost impossible to live side-by-side in peace witj either europeans or even with Muslims (thats why there is a lot of Christian vs. Muslim conflict in Africa). And we can all conclude that if Africans find it tough to live beside peaceful Christians , Muslims or europeans they damn as well sure see it as being tough to live beside peaceful people who live with their gender identitiies and sexualities in ways that were rarely seen as common amongst Africans even 2 or 3 decades ago.

    Think about what the averahe African person has been through over the past millenia or two...The average Christian, Muslim , or European that the average African person has encountered whether in the past and maybe even today is one who was hostile to them so of course the Africans eventually have developed a distrust of them and of many outsiders. So of course they have developed a general distrust of ALL outsiders even people who try to live by or bring in from foreign lands these ideas or things related to being 2SLGBTIQIA+

    Norman Finklestein said the same thing about why he supported the Houthis sven though the slogan of the Houthis was '[REDACTED] to all Americans, [REDACTED] To All Jews'. Normam basically said: 'Think about the average Houthi person. Think about what the average Houthi person has been through over the last few centuries. Think abiut the average type of Jew oe average type of american that a Houthi has encountered. .... the average Houthi has ONLY ever encountered Jews and americans that have blown up their friends, their families, their pets , their spouses, their children , their lives and the livelihoods. So OF COURSE theyre gonna have animosity towards most americans and most jews. But when you think very carefully about it the slogans of the Houthis is completelt irrelevant to what they do today. The Houthis are slowing down the Genocide in Palestine through their blockade and missiles . If there was a group that back in the 30s and 40s were slowing down the Holocaust but their slogan was something stupid like 'Everyone Should Drink Farts Hmmmrgh!' do you think we would give a flying fuck about their stupid slogans? No! Of course not. The Houthis have a stupid slogan, ya I get it. But its irrelevant. Theyre doingg what they oughta be doing which is stalling a Genocide so I dont really have to care about how smart or dumb or excluse or inclusive their slogans are'

    So basically the average type of Nigerien has typically encountered Westerners that have madee them feel animosity towards ALL things that mamy Westerners say snd do regualrly, yes including accept the existence of 2SLGBTQIA,+ peoples.

    A similat thing can be typred out for thr Houthis.

    TLDR. Both evil and good have A LOOOOT of nuance because humans are very nuanced , emotional , and illogical creatures. Humans are simulfaenously the smartest and the stupidest species Ive ever encountered loool. We have the capacity to be innovatively inclusive , progressive, and caring but then we also have the ability to be self-destructively conservative , exclusive , and cold. Why are so many people going with the second option?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Yes, the supernatural, and other controlling systems, that keep people obedient in low-level and magical thinking, prevents them from using science, tech and all the things that improve their lives. The systems teach to not question, don't go beyond right/wrong to higher thinking that needs nuance and real life data-backed what works. Also most don't learn how the ego tries to protect in unhelpful ways, and transcend the ego, in this life now. Don't let the old ways override the prefrontal cortex critical thinking and knowledge that is already proven. It's hard to do that if don't know about this or told it's bad to question, and the supernatural ideas are all one knows. Need broad education somehow that people welcome. Sagan's Baloney detection kit is a wonderful start, read The Demon Haunted World and the story of the invisible fire breathing dragon!

    I wish everyone could escape the controlling systems and be free and self-actualize. We are conscious waves of one ocean, made of billions of years old elements, the universe understanding itself, continuous DNA from the first life to us, which survived all the extinction events, but many will suffer in the current, human-caused one. There is less suffering with less tribal and supernatural ways, since that is not the cooperation and data-backed ways the real world needs. The cosmos is indifferent to us and nothing supernatural is coming to save the one habitable planet we know of like this.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    The older I get the more I realize logistics is complicated and we need leaders who aren't retards and can manage a logistics chain. The world is complicated and people with naive beliefs should stay out of politics and do something that better fits their skillset, like managing a daycare.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Managing a daycare is pretty freaking hard, especially in this economy. Look it up, someone who is successful at managing a daycare is a very well organized disciplined and hardworking person.

    Edit: but i will say i 100% agree with you, ideology is complete nonsense when voting for politicians. Cut taxes or increase spending, it's the same thing it's just an accounting trick whether you have more money at the end of the year because your taxes were lower or you got some subsidy.

    What matters is that whatever policy is chosen is implemented effectively or not. The person i vote for is always going to be the person i think has more integrity (because if you are corrupt you're just gonna hurt the People no matter what) and then second is more competent. Literally nothing else matters.

    I dont place particular emphasis on logistics, but a competent leader will be sure to put a trustworthy logistics expert in charge of that

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  • [+] -19 points 2 months ago (3 children)