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US judge rules alleged 9/11 mastermind's confessions inadmissible (www.middleeasteye.net)
submitted 2 months ago by to c/news@lemmy.ca
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Prosecutors have already excluded statements that Mohammed made after his capture when he was held by the CIA in overseas prisons and subjected to brutal treatment including waterboarding before his transfer in 2006 to Guantanamo, the Times reported.

But the trial judge Lieutenant Colonel Michael Schrama has concluded that Mohammed's subsequent interrogations in 2007 at Guantanamo were also inadmissible.

Schrama cited an "unbroken continuation of the CIA’s psychological conditioning and severe coercion," and also found that FBI agents intentionally failed to tell Mohammed that he had a right to be silent and to consult a lawyer. (Reporting by AFP)

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[–] 3 points 2 months ago

Shame on America

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    [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    I read that the black site tortures were so bad that they put victims into a permanent infantile state. Near vegetative.

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    16 comments in c/news@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 88 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (11 children)

    Schrama cited an “unbroken continuation of the CIA’s psychological conditioning and severe coercion”

    Torture. The word you're looking for is torture. The CIA & FBI tortured this man for over twenty years.

    Oh, and they did it illegally, because:

    FBI agents intentionally failed to tell Mohammed that he had a right to be silent and to consult a lawyer.

    So they tortured this man for over twenty years while denying him the right to counsel or even to be silent, then expected the judge to accept his confession as legitimate.

    Whether or not you have sympathy for Mohammed, how he's been treated is an absolute shit-show. Remember, this man has yet to be convicted of a crime, and the crime they're going after him for, heinous though it may be, happened 25 years ago.

    Here's the rub - if they have the evidence to convict, then they don't need the confession. Yet they found the need to waterboard this man for 20+ years to obtain it. This means that the other evidence they have against him is too flimsy to secure a conviction on its own.

    And that means they've been torturing a technically innocent man for three decades to save face.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    I agree with everything you've said. I think I would draw a clear distinction between "not legally established" and "innocent." To be clear, nothing justifies 20 years of torture, no matter what he did, but it seems to me this guy is innocent the same way Trump is innocent of violently raping children.

    Keeping him behind bars might well have prevented him from planning additional attacks or even being elevated to political prominence. But torture is beyond the pale.

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  • [–] 42 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    The United States justice system is based on the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. He has not been proven guilty. As such he is innocent in the eyes of the law.

    Keeping him behind bars might well have prevented him from planning additional attacks or even being elevated to political prominence.

    If you imprison people based on what they might do, you no longer have a justice system. All you have is a lawless police state.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Well we’re doing a shit ton of the last thing you mentioned, so it appears we’re a lawless state.

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  • [+] -10 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    If freed, there is every reason to believe he would have planned and executed further attacks, and probably that he would today. Which means all of those additional lost lives are the cost to free him. That's not a cost that's in our interest to pay. It's certainly not a cost I'd be willing to pay.

    Asymmetrical warfare is something that isn't fully handled by a legal system and not a purely military issue. This is a not a case of easy answers and clear morality. If the families of those alternative timeline victims could blame you for their loss, would the right choice be so clear to you? It wouldn't to me.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago

    According to who? The CIA and FBI agents that beat a confession out of him? The press that presumed him guilty the moment they chose to notice him? We have no idea who this guy actually is other than what they claim, because it's never come out in a public court of law.

    If there's evidence to convict him, convict him and make him suffer the penalty of the law. Otherwise you're destroying a man on the basis of hearsay, and undermining your own justice system in the process.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    If it's so clear that he did it then there should be plenty of evidence and torture shouldn't even be necessary. As to the risk of him planning the next terrorism attack - incarceration "just in case" isn't necessary (and not lawful for good reason) - planning crimes, especially terrorist offences, are already crimes themselves, so it doesn't have to go that far to rearrest him if he really does tend to go in that direction.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago*

    I think I would draw a clear distinction between “not legally established” and “innocent.”

    Only fascist anti-American pieces of shit who hate the Bill of Rights draw that distinction. Ever.

    If that's not clear enough, I can try to state it in even more emphatic terms.

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    • [–] 14 points 2 months ago

    This whole thing is a joke. KSM is never leaving GITMO. Everyone knows that.

    He was ready to plead guilty, but Loyd Austin blew that up. That was the last chance for any kind of legitimacy or process. Now it's just a prosecution that doesn't have any evidence against a defendant who cannot be released under any circumstances.

    The only practical outcome is that Obama, Trump, and Biden have all learned not to take prisoners.

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    [–] 13 points 2 months ago

    9/11 was 25 years ago. WTF didnt this get done sooner?

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    [–] 11 points 2 months ago

    Just a painful reminder to me that most people around here were probably either not born or in elementary school for 9/11, but it was a defining moment in my adulthood. heh.

    Time sucks, my friends. It never fucking stops.

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    [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    Pretty sure this also violated his right to a speedy trial too.

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