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US gives money to Israel which then funds AIPAC who then funds corporations who take money from citizens? Is that right? (discuss.online)
submitted 3 months ago by to c/noncrediblediplomacy@sh.itjust.works
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cross-posted from: https://discuss.online/post/43708328

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[–] 11 points 3 months ago

Very good answer

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    [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    Israel exists.

    Debatable

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    58 comments in c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 18 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    What exactly is Israel? The government? The people? The corporations? Which aspect of the country has a right to exist exactly?

    The part systematically killing off an entire population of people? No. That part has no right to exist.

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    • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Since when did states have rights?

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Yeah, "does Israel have a right to exist?" is a nonsense question. What's the difference between a state with that right and one that doesn't? Is a state that has a "right to exist" therefore somehow beyond reproach? I think it's a rhetorical tool that is meant to confuse people, because any clear eyed understanding of reality leaves Israel looking obviously terrible.

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    • [–] 41 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    This is a great retort. But does this belong in this community? Is this a meme?

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    • [–] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    its always been a laundering scheme to go back into the campaigns of politicians, much like with the charter school vouchers. Which is why schumer, hakeem, slotkin, booker was so adamant to support them it funds thier stolen money lifestyles, and yes they are pratically dinos(actually the old moderate Rs)

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    [–] 11 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Jesus fucking christ so basically every power structure that men inhabit has rights but people don't have rights?

    We don't need to tolerate this bullshit.

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    • [+] -76 points 3 months ago (42 children)

    Weird to not just say 'yes'. Regarding the tax dollars he's correct though. I think US foreign spendings are based on china and allies are enemies and the need of strategic military bases/puppet states. I mean wtf pakistan has nukes... On the other hand there's happy trading with their declared enemies.

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  • [–] 53 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    No state has a right to exist.

    Does the confederacy have a right to exist?

    Does Rhodesia have a right to exist?

    Does Nazi Germany have a right to exist?

    States are imaginary land borders we make up for governments and those don't have rights.

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  • [+] -24 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    I know where you are coming from. No borders no nations blah. But what you then get is eternal fighting and suffering. We have to accept the borders how they are to find peace. This is from i think kenia's diplomat's speech on russias invasion of ukraine. He argues, when Africa can accept borders drawn by foreign conquerors through towns and famillies then then you can too.

    Not accepting either israels or palestines rights is the cause of all the suffering.

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  • [–] 17 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Okay, fine, I accept the 1967 borders of Israel. Oh, is that not enough? Why not? Why didn't they respect the borders that existed?

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    If you think an apartheid colonial ethnostate can respect the rights of the people it is subjugating and stealing from, you are lost.

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  • [+] -7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Every state was conquered at some point for whatever reason. If you go back far enough we should give the USA back to natives. But where do we put like 100++ m displaced people now? The argument of keeping borders actually supports weaker players.

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  • [–] 34 points 3 months ago (10 children)

    It's the question that's weird actually. Does anyone ever ask if Australia has a right to exist? Does anyone ask if America has a right to exist? It's called sowing doubt, and it's always in this context and it's always the same goal in this current media ecosystem. Abdul is just demonstrating the nature of the question which you simply don't see people do, either becuase media outlets coach them not to, or they're caught off guard by the implicit gaslighting. If you and I had a public conversation and I, unprovoked, kept asking you if I have a right to live, people watching might start to think you don't think I do regardless of how you answer despite how absurd the question is to ask in what we consider civilized society.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago

    If you and I had a public conversation and I, unprovoked, kept asking you if I have a right to live, people watching might start to think you don't think I do regardless of how you answer despite how absurd the question is to ask in what we consider civilized society.

    This is SUCH a good simile. Bravo! I'm gonna use that the next time someone mentions Israel's "RiGhT tO eXiSt".

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  • [+] -7 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    It’s not a weird question. There’s no other group claiming territory in Australia. Nor are there any real territorial disputes or territories claiming independence from the United States.

    Israel and Palestine have an active disagreement about who owns what territory, and both fundamentally disagree on the other even existing at all. It’s also an extremely relevant topic right now, with Israel being a long time diplomatic and military ally of the United States.

    It would be like asking a candidate if Taiwan has the right to exist, which is also very relevant.

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  • [+] -6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    People would answer "yes of course, why do you ask such a weird question". He didnt answer like this for a reason.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago*

    He is a person so, you're wrong. Also not everyone agrees with your bias, especially when you include the appropriate context: "Does Israel have a right to exist as a state that inflicts collective violence and murder on unprecedented scales against a large segment of their population based on ideology and skin tone without consequence?". Does Isreal have a right to exist? As much as any other state, and NO state has a right to exist if that existence is centered on violent expansionism, bigotry and genocide. This is akin to how nobody asks if Israel is anti-Islamic, we're being fed carefully curated narratives to avoid the follow-up, and to that effect I'll ask you: Does Palestine have a right to exist as an independent state and defend itself against foreing aggression? If not, why?

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  • [–] 31 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    Israel doesn't have a right to exist. Neither does Palestine. Neither does my country.

    Countries don't have a right to exist. They never did. We just respected each other for relative peace.

    People, however, do have a right to exist.

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  • [+] -11 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    So bombs will determine borders. Guess who has more firepower?

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Do states having a right to exist means people can't democratically choose to merge their country with another?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    Like crimea "voted" to be part of russia? There are better ways than merging i.e. making one cease to exist because those votes can never be unanimous. See EU. You just contract to use the same rule set, currency etc and are factually merged.

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  • [–] 23 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    What's weird is that every talking head keeps asking that question. It's become a thought terminating cliché that functions as a loyalty test. Any self respecting citizen should just refuse the question in the first place.

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  • [–] 27 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Weird to not just say 'yes'.

    I mean presumably that's because "yes" isn't the answer to that question.

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  • [–] 50 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    No, he's right to call out what a fucking ridiculous question it is.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    Yeah that too, but it's because the answer is "no" that he feels the need to justify it/question the assumptions behind the question. Someone who thinks Israel has a right to exist (ew) would find the question perfectly valid.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    The question is a loyalty test. Its another way of asking "will you serve the Epstein class?"

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    connecting this to epstein is absurd. If anything, israel has material about trump et al threatening to publish if they dont get help. That'd make israel an enemy of the epstein class tho.

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    • [+] -23 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Do we have evidence that Israel funds AIPAC?

    As far as I know, and that we are aware of, it didn't happen since the early 1960s, with AZC, an ancestor organization.

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